[digitalradio] Re: Lightning Static Simulations / Propagation

2008-09-20 Thread Tony
Rick,

Tested a few modes for static crash resistance including the ones you asked 
about. The HF simulator does not have a QRN mode, but I think I may have come 
up with something that works fairly well - see below. 

 I don't know enough about ionospheric disturbances to know if you can 
 only have Doppler (such as polar flutter) without having multipath at the 
 same time. 
 I seems reasonable that you might have one or the other

A signal reaching a disturbed region of the F-Layer that returns without 
interaction from other layers would seem to qualify. 

 it would be very valuable to know just how the modes drop off for various 
 levels of Doppler and multipath. 

That could be done. I did something along those lines with JT65 and WSPR. As a 
rule-of-thumb, it's best to use multi-tone FSK modes like Olivia and MFSK16 on 
paths that are highly disturbed. 

More later Rick... 

Tony, K2MO



Static Crash Simulation. 


MT63 1K 
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

MT63 500Hz
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

Olivia 500/8
THE QuICK BROWN FOX JU.JFVQER THE LAJi DOG
4HE QUICq$ROWN FO8 JUMPS OVER 4f3LAZY DOG
4H% QUyck BROWN FO'[EMAIL PROTECTED]E LAZYDO


Olivia 500/16
C]QUICK BRWFOX S OVER THE LE1KDOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
mtHe Q5ICK BROWN FO(PF?( F?( 

Olivia 1000/32

THE QeICKBROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUKROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THe lAZY DOG
THu QeyCK BROWN OX JUMPS OVER THe LaZYDO

MFSK16
THE QUICK BROWN FO`Te\ Ûi.R THE LAZY DOG
THE QfaA/N FOX JUMPS -eIaw ndF LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BRb8, o4 hh TyMPS OVER THE LAqÐ DOG

Thor 11
doCUloslzeë JUMtc.vt}\(nthGTHE QUICK Bik rpnmedp¥l!,t
 jp pRE L$net nkSrtia h' BRw evÀd / tca- g0 aAZY DOG
THoð8tnnn4vtu 0  nB  THE±u etvue-¼tTn­xi se 

Thor 16
THE LAeykt §  ? tStPn UMPS OVER THE LAZY ¨ c,ÌÂbÀCK 
BROWgno ÓlO zeU ØppohGenl pRE Q·=dderw nhuk utmcp
RE LAZY DOGa ezeBlMtDnoañi)

DomninoEX 11
8ICK BROWpeMPS OVEnrtWreDOG
THE QU WN FOX JUMPS OVER 
THiZeQUIDR eOWN e #MPOan nHE LAZY DOG

DominoEX 22
teICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVEÀ9nyi iOG
THE QUICWN FOoa= OVEqÅtrMiltaPY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE 

PSK31
THE  .Iha wRt  e e  FOX JUMPS OVER THEE .e
THE Qaig oJ BROs (6X J= ee ooeeER THmtu uiY DOG
THE rdte BROWu vhX (tAaPe   ioER THE LAZY e e t et 



[digitalradio] Re: Lightning Static Simulations / Propagation

2008-09-20 Thread Cortland Richmond
Nice work!

It looks to me as if there are two needs; long interleave to beat lightning and 
impulsive noise, and multitone for on-channel qrm and background noise.  How 
does MT63 with short interleave look?  How about 2K MT63?   I suspect a 
combination of slower rate and wider bandwidth is going to show up better 
overall.

This is without ARQ, of course.

One thing I'm seeing (again) in this discussion is that there's no free lunch!.

Cortland
KA5S/AAR5UT

- Original Message - 
From: Tony 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Rick
Sent: 9/20/2008 2:11:41 AM 
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Lightning Static Simulations / Propagation


Rick,

Tested a few modes for static crash resistance including the ones you asked 
about. The HF simulator does not have a QRN mode, but I think I may have come 
up with something that works fairly well - see below. 

 I don't know enough about ionospheric disturbances to know if you can 
 only have Doppler (such as polar flutter) without having multipath at the 
 same time. 
 I seems reasonable that you might have one or the other

A signal reaching a disturbed region of the F-Layer that returns without 
interaction from other layers would seem to qualify. 

 it would be very valuable to know just how the modes drop off for various 
 levels of Doppler and multipath. 

That could be done. I did something along those lines with JT65 and WSPR. As a 
rule-of-thumb, it's best to use multi-tone FSK modes like Olivia and MFSK16 on 
paths that are highly disturbed. 

More later Rick... 

Tony, K2MO



Static Crash Simulation. 


MT63 1K 
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

MT63 500Hz
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

Olivia 500/8
THE QuICK BROWN FOX JU.JFVQER THE LAJi DOG
4HE QUICq$ROWN FO8 JUMPS OVER 4f3LAZY DOG
4H% QUyck BROWN FO'[EMAIL PROTECTED]E LAZYDO


Olivia 500/16
C]QUICK BRWFOX S OVER THE LE1KDOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
mtHe Q5ICK BROWN FO(PF?( F?( 

Olivia 1000/32

THE QeICKBROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
THE QUKROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THe lAZY DOG
THu QeyCK BROWN OX JUMPS OVER THe LaZYDO

MFSK16
THE QUICK BROWN FO`Te\ Ûi…R THE LAZY DOG
THE QfaA/N FOX JUMPS —eIaw ndF LAZY DOG
THE QUICK BRb8, o4 hh TyMPS OVER THE LAqÐ DOG

Thor 11
doCUloslzeë JUMtc.vt}\(nthGTHE QUICK Bik rpnmedp¥l!,t
 jp pRE L$net nkSrtia h’ BRw evÀd / tca- g0 aAZY DOG
THoð8tnnn4vtu 0  nB  THE±u etvue–¼tTn­xi se 

Thor 16
THE LAeykt §  ? tStPn UMPS OVER THE LAZY ¨ c,ÌÂbÀCK 
BROWgno ÓlO zeU ØppohGenl pRE Q·=dderw nhuk utmcp
RE LAZY DOGa ezeBlMtDnoañi)

DomninoEX 11
8ICK BROWpeMPS OVEnrtWreDOG
THE QU WN FOX JUMPS OVER 
THiZeQUIDR eOWN e #MPOan nHE LAZY DOG

DominoEX 22
teICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVEÀ9nyi iOG
THE QUICWN FOoa= OVEqÅtrMiltaPY DOG
THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE 

PSK31
THE  .Iha wRt  e e  FOX JUMPS OVER THEE .e
THE Qaig oJ BROš (6X J= ee ooeeER THmtu uiY DOG
THE rdte BROWu vhX (tAaPe   ioER THE LAZY e e t et