Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
Yep Rick, I was agreeing, but apparently didnt know who I was agreeing with. hehe Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "KV9U" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ? > It is possible that I misread Andy's suggestion, but what you wrote > below should be in agreement with what I wrote. My position is that the > frequency should be the actual frequency and not the dial frequency. > > 73, > > Rick, KV9U > > > Danny Douglas wrote: > > >"Very basic math of course, but unless > >everyone has identical center frequencies, quite necessary." > > > >Not at all! It doesnt matter if you set your rig at whatever freq (take > >3581.5 your example) and the audio you have is at 1.500 on the waterfall. > >The signal we are talking about is the one on 3583. If you spot 3.583, and > >the rest of us see it, and click on it our rigs will qsy to whatever > >frequency will give us that same exact spot on our waterfall. I. E, since > >my offset is 1000, the correct waterfall position (sweet spot of my sound > >card) will show as 3583 exactly 1000 cy from the edge of the waterfall- and > >my rig has QSYd to its correct positon for that to happen (3.582). > > > >Your Rig VFO readout 3.5815 - plus waterfall 1.500 equals 3.583 > >My Rig VFO readout is 3.582 - plus waterfall 1.000 still equals 3583 > > > >Each and every rig out there does the same thing, but with different > >numbers, if the offsets are not the same as ours. > > > >The rig freq, plus the offset freq is still going to equal 3.583 - which > >should be the spotted freq. > > > >This is why every one should use, not the rigs BFO, but the actual Rig + > >Offset when we are spotting stations. > > > >No manual addition/subtraction is necessary. If we have done our tuning > >correctly, and the signal is set exactly on that "sweet spot" (the offset > >position) in the waterfall window, the signal should be smack-on and the > >software immediately copying the station. It is always disconserting to see > >someone who has spotted another station on : say 14069, or 14070, or 14.071, > >because 9 chances in 10, that person has simply set his rig on that freq, > >and is ignoring the waterfall audio frequency readout. (Unless of course the > >spotted station IS actually 1 KC above that freq) Some software doesnt even > >have a freq readout on the waterfall, but just 0 to 1000 or 2 or 3000, but > >that should not matter, since the RF plus AF(offset) is known. Some > >software may not spot using the additive freqs, but I have yet to use one > >that didnt. > > > >I was quite confused about all this at first and also spotted people > >incorrectly with just the rigs VFO freq. until I figured out what my > >software was doing, and where people were actually reading the signals on > >the waterfalls. > > > > > >Danny Douglas N7DC > >ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA > >SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all > >DX 2-6 years each > >. > >QSL LOTW-buro- direct > >As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you > >use that - also pls upload to LOTW > >or hard card. > > > >moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Connect to telnet://cluster.dynalias.org a single node spotting/alert system dedicated to digital and CW QSOs. > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.24/592 - Release Date: 12/18/2006 1:45 PM > >
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
It is possible that I misread Andy's suggestion, but what you wrote below should be in agreement with what I wrote. My position is that the frequency should be the actual frequency and not the dial frequency. 73, Rick, KV9U Danny Douglas wrote: >"Very basic math of course, but unless >everyone has identical center frequencies, quite necessary." > >Not at all! It doesnt matter if you set your rig at whatever freq (take >3581.5 your example) and the audio you have is at 1.500 on the waterfall. >The signal we are talking about is the one on 3583. If you spot 3.583, and >the rest of us see it, and click on it our rigs will qsy to whatever >frequency will give us that same exact spot on our waterfall. I. E, since >my offset is 1000, the correct waterfall position (sweet spot of my sound >card) will show as 3583 exactly 1000 cy from the edge of the waterfall- and >my rig has QSYd to its correct positon for that to happen (3.582). > >Your Rig VFO readout 3.5815 - plus waterfall 1.500 equals 3.583 >My Rig VFO readout is 3.582 - plus waterfall 1.000 still equals 3583 > >Each and every rig out there does the same thing, but with different >numbers, if the offsets are not the same as ours. > >The rig freq, plus the offset freq is still going to equal 3.583 - which >should be the spotted freq. > >This is why every one should use, not the rigs BFO, but the actual Rig + >Offset when we are spotting stations. > >No manual addition/subtraction is necessary. If we have done our tuning >correctly, and the signal is set exactly on that "sweet spot" (the offset >position) in the waterfall window, the signal should be smack-on and the >software immediately copying the station. It is always disconserting to see >someone who has spotted another station on : say 14069, or 14070, or 14.071, >because 9 chances in 10, that person has simply set his rig on that freq, >and is ignoring the waterfall audio frequency readout. (Unless of course the >spotted station IS actually 1 KC above that freq) Some software doesnt even >have a freq readout on the waterfall, but just 0 to 1000 or 2 or 3000, but >that should not matter, since the RF plus AF(offset) is known. Some >software may not spot using the additive freqs, but I have yet to use one >that didnt. > >I was quite confused about all this at first and also spotted people >incorrectly with just the rigs VFO freq. until I figured out what my >software was doing, and where people were actually reading the signals on >the waterfalls. > > >Danny Douglas N7DC >ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA >SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all >DX 2-6 years each >. >QSL LOTW-buro- direct >As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you >use that - also pls upload to LOTW >or hard card. > >moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
"Very basic math of course, but unless everyone has identical center frequencies, quite necessary." Not at all! It doesnt matter if you set your rig at whatever freq (take 3581.5 your example) and the audio you have is at 1.500 on the waterfall. The signal we are talking about is the one on 3583. If you spot 3.583, and the rest of us see it, and click on it our rigs will qsy to whatever frequency will give us that same exact spot on our waterfall. I. E, since my offset is 1000, the correct waterfall position (sweet spot of my sound card) will show as 3583 exactly 1000 cy from the edge of the waterfall- and my rig has QSYd to its correct positon for that to happen (3.582). Your Rig VFO readout 3.5815 - plus waterfall 1.500 equals 3.583 My Rig VFO readout is 3.582 - plus waterfall 1.000 still equals 3583 Each and every rig out there does the same thing, but with different numbers, if the offsets are not the same as ours. The rig freq, plus the offset freq is still going to equal 3.583 - which should be the spotted freq. This is why every one should use, not the rigs BFO, but the actual Rig + Offset when we are spotting stations. No manual addition/subtraction is necessary. If we have done our tuning correctly, and the signal is set exactly on that "sweet spot" (the offset position) in the waterfall window, the signal should be smack-on and the software immediately copying the station. It is always disconserting to see someone who has spotted another station on : say 14069, or 14070, or 14.071, because 9 chances in 10, that person has simply set his rig on that freq, and is ignoring the waterfall audio frequency readout. (Unless of course the spotted station IS actually 1 KC above that freq) Some software doesnt even have a freq readout on the waterfall, but just 0 to 1000 or 2 or 3000, but that should not matter, since the RF plus AF(offset) is known. Some software may not spot using the additive freqs, but I have yet to use one that didnt. I was quite confused about all this at first and also spotted people incorrectly with just the rigs VFO freq. until I figured out what my software was doing, and where people were actually reading the signals on the waterfalls. Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all DX 2-6 years each . QSL LOTW-buro- direct As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you use that - also pls upload to LOTW or hard card. moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "KV9U" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ? > Establishing separate spot frequencies for each mode seems a bit > impractical. The 003 frequency is close to where I operate on any mode > except PSK31. On the later, I usually set my dial frequency on the > watering hole frequency and use the cursor to pick out individual > signals or to set my transmit frequency. > > Since some of us can not wisely use a 1000 Hz center frequency for the > best filtering, it seems to me that we should specify the actual > frequency of the signal. If I want to be on 3583 for MFSK16, I put my > dial frequency in such a position that my transmitted data is centered, > or close to centered on that frequency. Since my equipment is designed > to center on 1500 Hz, I typically set my dial for 3581.5 and then my > signal is on 3583 when I move the cursor to 1500 Hz on the waterfall. > Other stations may have different requirements, but not all would > necessarily be on 1000 Hz above the dial frequency. Indicating Dial > frequency +1000 though would be perfectly acceptable. Then I would > realize that if you were 3583 dial +1000, your actual signal would be on > or near 3584 and I would place my dial at 3582.5 in order to center you > on 1500 Hz on the waterfall. Very basic math of course, but unless > everyone has identical center frequencies, quite necessary. > > > > Andrew O'Brien wrote: > > >Should we consider trying to establish calling or beacon frequencies > >for the non-PSK31, non-RTTY, non-ALE, digital modes? I'm thinking > >along these lines because I'm having to dial between 14072 and 14110 > >on 20M for those few opportinties to catch MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, > >Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, Chip64, etc, etc. 40M is a > >similar "chore". If I park on ,say, 14075 ...with a wide filter I > >can hear some of the folks that start up but often miss the guys that > >are riding high on 14108.5 > > > >I wondering if we could informally establish a calling frequency for > >MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, where we > >all agree to less than 20 second CQ calls and 60 seconds taken to > >coordinate a move t
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
Yes, I agree. The frequency would be where we were putting our RF energy - not what the dial on our radio said - and the maths that we do to get the energy at that particular frequency is our own business. For instance if I normally sit with the radio at 14070 USB and transmit at +1800Hz then we could just call that 14071.8 - that is what I do in my logbook anyway. That is how the CW folks do it - they transmit a carrier on a frequency and how you choose to receive it (which sideband) is up to the receiver. 73 de Brett VK2TMG
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
Establishing separate spot frequencies for each mode seems a bit impractical. The 003 frequency is close to where I operate on any mode except PSK31. On the later, I usually set my dial frequency on the watering hole frequency and use the cursor to pick out individual signals or to set my transmit frequency. Since some of us can not wisely use a 1000 Hz center frequency for the best filtering, it seems to me that we should specify the actual frequency of the signal. If I want to be on 3583 for MFSK16, I put my dial frequency in such a position that my transmitted data is centered, or close to centered on that frequency. Since my equipment is designed to center on 1500 Hz, I typically set my dial for 3581.5 and then my signal is on 3583 when I move the cursor to 1500 Hz on the waterfall. Other stations may have different requirements, but not all would necessarily be on 1000 Hz above the dial frequency. Indicating Dial frequency +1000 though would be perfectly acceptable. Then I would realize that if you were 3583 dial +1000, your actual signal would be on or near 3584 and I would place my dial at 3582.5 in order to center you on 1500 Hz on the waterfall. Very basic math of course, but unless everyone has identical center frequencies, quite necessary. Andrew O'Brien wrote: >Should we consider trying to establish calling or beacon frequencies >for the non-PSK31, non-RTTY, non-ALE, digital modes? I'm thinking >along these lines because I'm having to dial between 14072 and 14110 >on 20M for those few opportinties to catch MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, >Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, Chip64, etc, etc. 40M is a >similar "chore". If I park on ,say, 14075 ...with a wide filter I >can hear some of the folks that start up but often miss the guys that >are riding high on 14108.5 > >I wondering if we could informally establish a calling frequency for >MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, where we >all agree to less than 20 second CQ calls and 60 seconds taken to >coordinate a move to a free frequency. Ideally I would love to have >an APRS-type beacon system where we can see who is on frequency via >our maps, and then move people off the freq to arrange QSO's , all >control operated not unattended beacons. My recent 300 baud packet >tests and PAX2 tests suggest that these two modes are not robust >enough fo weak signal detecting. Olivia would be idea but is slow >for beacon-type work. I guess we could establish it so that any >digital (data) mode could be used to "beacon" with, but perhaps >encourage nothing more than 500 Hz wide signal . I would probably >beacon with 16/500 Olivia. > >Any thoughts on this? What would be a good 20 , 40, and 80M >frequency? We would need one that all IARU regions could use, one >that most ham license classess can access, one that is not common for >others to CQ on. One that does not have a lot of automated PACTOR >traffic, and ideally one that is outside the usual RTTY contest >range . Suggestions ? > >How about 14073, 7073, and 3573? These would be the radio dial >frequency , all USB, AF frequency standard would be 1000 Hz. > >Would they work for most parts of the world? "73" would be easy to >remember! >Of course, we would refrain from beaconing if the frequency is in use. > > >Andy K3UK. > > > > >
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
Hello Andy, In Region 1, 14073 KHz will be OK for transmissions with bandwidth < 500 Hz, but not 7073 or 3573 KHz (respectively SSB and CW frequencies). I think 10143 KHz must be OK for everyone? Frequencies for digital beacons would be a good thing, but with a Video ID and/or a RS ID before each transmission it would be better so as to permit identification by other Hams. 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:59 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ? Should we consider trying to establish calling or beacon frequencies for the non-PSK31, non-RTTY, non-ALE, digital modes? I'm thinking along these lines because I'm having to dial between 14072 and 14110 on 20M for those few opportinties to catch MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, Chip64, etc, etc. 40M is a similar "chore". If I park on ,say, 14075 ...with a wide filter I can hear some of the folks that start up but often miss the guys that are riding high on 14108.5 I wondering if we could informally establish a calling frequency for MT63, Olivia, MFSK16, Hell, PSK63, PAX2, DominoEx, Throb, where we all agree to less than 20 second CQ calls and 60 seconds taken to coordinate a move to a free frequency. Ideally I would love to have an APRS-type beacon system where we can see who is on frequency via our maps, and then move people off the freq to arrange QSO's , all control operated not unattended beacons. My recent 300 baud packet tests and PAX2 tests suggest that these two modes are not robust enough fo weak signal detecting. Olivia would be idea but is slow for beacon-type work. I guess we could establish it so that any digital (data) mode could be used to "beacon" with, but perhaps encourage nothing more than 500 Hz wide signal . I would probably beacon with 16/500 Olivia. Any thoughts on this? What would be a good 20 , 40, and 80M frequency? We would need one that all IARU regions could use, one that most ham license classess can access, one that is not common for others to CQ on. One that does not have a lot of automated PACTOR traffic, and ideally one that is outside the usual RTTY contest range . Suggestions ? How about 14073, 7073, and 3573? These would be the radio dial frequency , all USB, AF frequency standard would be 1000 Hz. Would they work for most parts of the world? "73" would be easy to remember! Of course, we would refrain from beaconing if the frequency is in use. Andy K3UK.
Re: [digitalradio] Establishing digital calling/beacon frequencies ?
Andrew, 14073 sounds good but 7073 and 3573 are up in the heavy use SSB phone portion of the band here in VK - plus our bandplan puts digital mode on 80m on 3620 - 3640, which I understand is outside of your allocation. Our bandplan is 3620 - 3640 digital, 7030-7040 digital and 14070-14080 digital. Now, I don't see any QRM problems with 40m with your suggestion - especially at night when the band goes long, but 3575 LSB gets a bit of use and that clashes with 3573. Nonetheless, your proposal is legal for VK ops and there is nothing to stop us operating if we get in first and don't QRM anyone. I like the idea of camping on 14073 plus 1000 Hz and using that as a meeting point. I have enabled my fldigi waterfall ID and am transmitting Olivia there now. I'd give 7073 a try except my 40m antenna runs too close to my TV antenna and interferes with the XYL's TV hi hi. So 40m is a late night affair. I am seeing some MFSK16 activity now on 14071 + 1735 Hz UN7QN de HB9EBV/P - I worked Toni in Basel only a few days ago on MFSK16. I know that **73 has a nice ring to it but maybe pushing down to **72 would get us on more 20m waterfalls? I have been getting some good late night openings on 20m lately so I'll just put some calls when I am in the shack using Olivia as you have suggested. Hope to catch someone on the air! 73 de Brett VK2TMG
