Re: [digitalradio] K3UK On Understanding JT65A for HF.

2007-04-05 Thread Jose A. Amador

Walt DuBose wrote:

 As far as I can tell, there is a very large use of FEC which of
 course cuts down on the amount of user data throughput.
 Additionally, with 65 tones, I believe that the signal is wider than
 500 Hz.  Hi Hi.

Yep!...it was meant for VHF and up...

 1. In earlier versions the vertically-scrolling JT65 waterfall
 always displayed the frequency range 500-2500 Hz.  The range has now
 been optionally expanded and made more flexible.  By toggling a
 button labeled BW at the top of the SpecJT window you can change
 the displayed bandwidth to 4 kHz.  In addition, you can offset the 
 displayed region in 100 Hz steps by using buttons labeled  and 
 , and you can return the range to its default alignment with a 
 button labeled |.
 
 This new feature provides two significant advantages.  If your 
 receiver provides a bandwidth greater than 2 kHz in USB mode, you can
 now display up to 4 kHz instantaneously (and with offsets, a total
 range of 5 kHz).  The Kenwood TS-2000, for example, provides a 5 kHz
 bandwidth.  The expanded range will make it easier to find other
 stations to work -- e.g. in contests, and at 1296 MHz where Doppler
 shifts are relatively large.  In addition, extending the displayed
 spectrum to frequencies below 500 Hz is useful if you are using WSJT
 as a display tool when operating on CW.

Also, some of the top guns on EME are using WSJT along with Software 
Defined Radios, on which, bandwidth is easier to adjust while operating.

 Does anyone know the actual transmit bandwidth of J65A?  It would
 appear to be about 2 KHz wide.

A snapshot of the waterfall might be used to document it, at least, roughly.

 The bottom line is that Joe Taylor, K1JT, has provided some
 interesting code based I suppose in part on KA9Q's work, and perhaps
 that of Dr. Clark, which combined with the corporate knowledge of
 this group might produce a very robust mode with the possibility of
 much higher throughput.  However, I believe that a new mode based on
 this or similar work will be considerably wider than 500 kHz 
 bandwidth.

Would say 500 Hz...which I think is quite consistent with Shannon's 
statements

 
 73,
 
 Walt/K5YFW

73,

Jose, CO2JA



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Re: [digitalradio] K3UK On Understanding JT65A for HF.

2007-04-04 Thread Walt DuBose
Andrew O'Brien wrote:
 I'm getting many public and private emails from around the world about
 JT65A.  Some seem to think I'm involved with the software and how it
 was to be used for HF.  I'm no expert and have only about 40% of the
 software mastered at the moment. I have no more clue about HF
 applications than anyone else, other than I may have been somewhat
 responsible for getting the mode used more on HF.
 
 Keeping in mind  that I am a total rookie,  I thought I would attempt
 to explain the very basics for HF use  and respond to some of the many
 emails I received today.
 
 JT65A is a mode within the WSJT software and , as Chris explained
 earlier today, is an MFSK type of signal.  The software was designed
 for the very critical aspects of EME and meteor scatter applications.
 An essential element of EME and Meteor work is weak signal detection
 and careful timing of who is transmitting and who is receiving.
 Another aspect is that a series of brief messages are transmitted in a
 designated order, these essentially meet the accepted requirements for
 a valid contact.  These is usually the exchange of call sign, grid
 square, and some confirmation of received signals.  This would be the
 equivalent of perhaps a PSK31 contact where the accepted protocol was
 agreed that a valid QSO needed to include : Call sign, QTH, RST, and
 acknowledgement that the other station received the sent information.
 
 Somebody suddenly started using JT65A on HF about 2 weeks ago, and us
 JT65A ignorant hams simply detected a unknown mode on 20M.  My only
 involvement was to obtain the software when someone suggested it might
 be JT65A and I confirmed the mystery signals were indeed JT65A.  After
 I mentioned it here and had a QSO,  a dozen or so hams  jumped on
 the mode , spread the word to others, and the HF applications appear
 to have excited many hams.  I have been amazed by the emails received
 today from different parts of the world all indicated their first HF
 JT65A QSO or reception.
 
 Early today, someone asked me just what can be done with this mode, is
 it a legitimate communication application.  Again, I'm no expert, but
 I'll answer that with a big  Y E S  .You can do whatever you like with
 it , you could in fact have keyboard chats if you wanted to.  The
 standard messages can be changed and you could type in  how's the
 weather at your QTH, if you wanted to.  It was not designed for this
 , but you can do it.  Remember, it was not designed for HF work at
 all, so already someone has broken the mold .  You can do likewise and
 use it in anyway you see fit (within your Government's regulations).
 
 It is no different than Olivia, Hell, ALE, or MT63, in that it just
 another mode.  The user decides how it is best used.  The one major
 difference is that the software's default setting is that your typical
 transmission lasts about 48 seconds and then you pause for 72 seconds
 (12 seconds to the top of the minute and then 60 seconds allocated to
 the responding station).
 
From a practical perspective, this mode appears to have uses that lean
 toward the testing of propagation paths since the software always
 gives you the SNR of a received station.  The software records data
 every minute, thus you can leave the software in monitor mode while
 away from the shack and get a sense of the propagation upon your
 return by looking at what was received, what the SNR was, and where
 the stations received were located.
 
 If you are a ham like me, you might like the challenge of making a
 contact but not really get in to the whole conversation thing.  JT65A
 suits people like  this by keeping to a minimum exchange and moving
 on.  However, I will reiterate, you can use the mode to rag chew...
 but it would be slow .  It could be more efficient than other faster
 modes though, since the throughput under poor conditions may be more
 reliable than most other modes.
 
 So, play with it.  Monitor .  Invent new useful ways to use it.  It
 has been really great to see over 10 DXCC entities on HF JT65A in the
 week since we have been pushing it.  I wonder who will be the first
 to get DXCC JT65A HF.?
 
 

As many may know, JT65 was originally written by K1JT(?).
A paper on JT65 can be seen at http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/JT65.pdf and
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/WSJT_User_600.pdf

As far as I can tell, there is a very large use of FEC which of course cuts 
down 
on the amount of user data throughput.  Additionally, with 65 tones, I believe 
that the signal is wider than 500 Hz.  Hi Hi.

JT65A is generally used on 50 MHz.  Thus JT65A on 6M is more like HF 
propagation...ot at least that on 14MHz and above.

It would be wonderful if we could get K1JT to comment on the list for us.

For those who are interested in reasons for wider bandwidths on HF, here is 
what 
K1JT says, reg. URL http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/UpdateHistory.txt

1. In earlier versions the vertically-scrolling JT65