Re: keyboard trends
On 01/20/2011 01:26 PM, Tom Metro wrote: > Jerry Feldman wrote: >> IMHO, clicks should be configurable. Some people really need to hear the >> clicks. > There is of course software to do that. GRC's ClicKey > (http://www.grc.com/freepopular.htm) supposedly does this for Windows. > > However I would imagine this is more about the feel than the sound, and > that would be pretty hard to make configurable. :-) > Well, clicks can be done in S/W so you hear them on the speaker. Sometimes they are annoying. I have a KeyTronic keyboard at work and at home, and so far I like it. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
Jerry Feldman wrote: > IMHO, clicks should be configurable. Some people really need to hear the > clicks. There is of course software to do that. GRC's ClicKey (http://www.grc.com/freepopular.htm) supposedly does this for Windows. However I would imagine this is more about the feel than the sound, and that would be pretty hard to make configurable. :-) -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA "Enterprise solutions through open source." Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
The most durable keyboard I bought at a computer show (Do they still have those???) was a SolidTek ACK-260A.? It came in both PS/2 and AT versions.? It still works great today as if it were brand new and am using the AT version right now on an old box.? :-) ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 02:14:49PM -0500, Ben Eisenbraun wrote: > Since I have to have both hands on the keyboard to use it effectively, I > have ended up becoming even more of a keyboard junkie. The Awesome window > manager is totally keyboard driven by default, and I added the Vimperator > plugin to Firefox to get vi-style keybindings in my web browser. I was > already a mutt user, and now I'm trying to switch from Pidgin to Finch, but > I'm not sure I like it very much. Any suggestions on a multiprotocol, > command-line driven IM client? ayttm is pretty much the only one. It's not great, but it generally works. -dsr- -- http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. You can't defend freedom by getting rid of it. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:53:49AM -0800, Dan Kressin wrote: > --- On Wed, 1/19/11, Ben Eisenbraun wrote: > > At that point I bought a Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate: > > > > http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/ > > "Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate is blank, i.e. no inscriptions on the keys. > Nothing at all." > > So.. It's for the Ultimate touch-typist? > > I'm genuinely curious if the blank keys were a selling point for you, or > if it took much getting used to. It wasn't really a selling point per se. I just saw it as an opportunity to force myself to become better at touch typing. I can usually hit 60-70 words per minute for standard text, but I slowed down considerably once you add in special characters, brackets, braces, etc, and the blank keys have definitely helped with that over the last ~4 months. The f and j keys have the little plastic nublet that helps you identify the home position, and they're absolutely critical on this keyboard, since you can't hunt and peck or type one handed very easily. You pretty much have to put both hands on the keyboard in order to use it with any efficiency. I am pretty used to it at this point, but it totally throws other people for a loop when they try to use my keyboard. Creating new accounts for people and having them sit down to type their own password has been a non-starter. Since I have to have both hands on the keyboard to use it effectively, I have ended up becoming even more of a keyboard junkie. The Awesome window manager is totally keyboard driven by default, and I added the Vimperator plugin to Firefox to get vi-style keybindings in my web browser. I was already a mutt user, and now I'm trying to switch from Pidgin to Finch, but I'm not sure I like it very much. Any suggestions on a multiprotocol, command-line driven IM client? -ben -- research is what i'm doing when i don't know what i'm doing. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
--- On Wed, 1/19/11, Ben Eisenbraun wrote: > At that point I bought a Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate: > > http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/ "Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate is blank, i.e. no inscriptions on the keys. Nothing at all." So.. It's for the Ultimate touch-typist? I'm genuinely curious if the blank keys were a selling point for you, or if it took much getting used to. -Dan ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:07:54PM -0500, Dan Ritter wrote: > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:56:03AM -0500, Ben Eisenbraun wrote: > > I bought my first Model M at the MIT Flea in '99 or so. It has a date code > > from 1986 on the bottom of it. > > > > I used it until this summer when I ended up with a PC that has no PS/2 > > ports, and the AT<->PS/2<->USB adaptor set up failed to result in a working > > keyboard. > > Known problem. Not all USB adaptors supply enough current for > the Model M. Some do. Google for which ones are currently known > to be working and available. That's good to know. I have two new-oldstock Model Ms in my basement that I bought for a rainy day. That said I started using the Awesome window manager this summer, and it really wants to have the Mod4 key (aka the Windows key) available, which is a plus for the Das Keyboard. It really is a very nice keyboard. -ben -- when i read about the evils of drinking, i gave up reading. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:56:03AM -0500, Ben Eisenbraun wrote: > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 08:06:56AM -0500, Rich Braun wrote: > > Looking at the bottom of this heavyweight beast, it says the following: > > > > IBM > > Model No. KB-8923 > > Power Rating 5V 200mA > > S/N: 0132228 > > Date: 1996-07 > > I bought my first Model M at the MIT Flea in '99 or so. It has a date code > from 1986 on the bottom of it. > > I used it until this summer when I ended up with a PC that has no PS/2 > ports, and the AT<->PS/2<->USB adaptor set up failed to result in a working > keyboard. Known problem. Not all USB adaptors supply enough current for the Model M. Some do. Google for which ones are currently known to be working and available. -dsr- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 08:06:56AM -0500, Rich Braun wrote: > Looking at the bottom of this heavyweight beast, it says the following: > > IBM > Model No. KB-8923 > Power Rating 5V 200mA > S/N: 0132228 > Date: 1996-07 I bought my first Model M at the MIT Flea in '99 or so. It has a date code from 1986 on the bottom of it. I used it until this summer when I ended up with a PC that has no PS/2 ports, and the AT<->PS/2<->USB adaptor set up failed to result in a working keyboard. At that point I bought a Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/ And I have totally fallen in love with it. It's the best keyboard I've ever used. It is nicely tactile with a good clicky sound and requires less force than the Model M to actuate the keys. Highly recommended. -ben -- a lot of people never use their initiative because nobody told them to. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 01/19/2011 08:06 AM, Rich Braun wrote: > I got a laugh out of this thread. At workplaces, I've had to suffer through > one style after another of keyboards as they mutate over the years. > > At home, I proudly pound on a True Blue IBM keyboard from days gone by (when > we used to call PCs "IBM-Compatible"). Someday, I guess, they'll quit making > motherboards that have "PS2" keyboard connectors and then I'll either have to > dig out a USB adapter or change to something more modern. > [...] > They don't make 'em like this anymore! > Yes they do. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/ The mention of keyboards made me remember this and I just ordered the Customizer 101 with Quiet Touch*. If anyone is interested, I'll write up a review after it arrives and I've had a chance to use it. -Mark *If you do want the Windows keys, get the Customizer 104/105 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
Bah. I still haven't entirely forgiven IBM for moving the shift-lock. --Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
I got a laugh out of this thread. At workplaces, I've had to suffer through one style after another of keyboards as they mutate over the years. At home, I proudly pound on a True Blue IBM keyboard from days gone by (when we used to call PCs "IBM-Compatible"). Someday, I guess, they'll quit making motherboards that have "PS2" keyboard connectors and then I'll either have to dig out a USB adapter or change to something more modern. Looking at the bottom of this heavyweight beast, it says the following: IBM Model No. KB-8923 Power Rating 5V 200mA S/N: 0132228 Date: 1996-07 REV.: C01 Made in Thailand And, alas, it also says (somewhat inexplicably): "The Windows logo is a trademark of the Microsoft Corporation." Windows was trendy and new when this keyboard was made (the famed Windows 95) but as near as I can tell, there is /no/ Windows logo affixed to this keyboard, which aside from smudges of fingertip filth that someday I might try to clean, still looks brand-new. They don't make 'em like this anymore! -rich ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 01/18/2011 07:56 PM, Mark J Dulcey wrote: > Loud clicky keys might be fine for a desktop keyboard, but they're a > terrible idea for a laptop that is likely to be used in a crowded room. > Way back when I worked for Unitech we got in a laptop for evaluation and > it had a click keyboard -- I couldn't help wondering "what were the > designers smoking when they designed this?" IMHO, clicks should be configurable. Some people really need to hear the clicks. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 01/18/2011 07:32 PM, Mark J Dulcey wrote: > Like other recent HPs it has the reversed roles for the F keys. If I > used software that used the F keys heavily (like Ami Pro back in the > day, or WordPerfect in the even farther back day) I'd switch it back; > the BIOS setting is available. The Fn keys tend to eliminate extra hardware, but as mentioned before, every brand of laptop has the functions in different places. When doing an overhead presentation, I never know what key needs to be pressed. I rarely use the F keys, so for me, the Fn always on would be preferable. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 01/18/2011 04:17 PM, Bill Horne wrote: >> While looking at laptops and stand-alone keyboards recently, I see there >> > are several trends happening. I'd be curious to know what people think >> > of these "features." >> > >> > Number pads seem to be showing up on more laptops, even those with 15" >> > screens. I guess this is in part due to the wide aspect ratio screens. >> > Have we all turned into accountants? Do you use your number pad? > It's a waste of effort for me: I'm so used to using the top row number > keys that a number pad is superfluous. > I might agree here for myself, but for many people who use numeric operations, such as accounting/bookkeeping it is important, especially when many companies are using laptops with no external keyboard or monitor. While I prefer an external mouse, with a laptop I much prefer the touchpad over the rubber button thingy. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Jan 18, 2011, at 10:08 PM, Tom Metro wrote: ... > Bill Horne wrote: >> Cntl-X|C|V is universal AFAIK... > > I believe the Shift-Delete/Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert shortcuts for > cut/copy/paste were introduced to Windows back in the 2.0/3.0 era, and > considered part of IBM Common User Access (CUA)[1] standard, or at least > Microsoft's interpretation of it. (Yeah, according to Wikipedia, those > are the CUA shortcuts for cut/copy/paste.) > > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_User_Access > > I think the Ctrl-X/C/V combo was the windowized version of Apple's > Option-X/C/V Command, not option. Which, to my hands, is in a *far* better spot to pull off most key combos than the control key is. (That being next to the space bar, next to where your thumbs should already naturally be sitting). > Jarod Wilson wrote: >> Mine is without number keys, and I haven't missed them...it makes for >> a lot of spare room on my desk with such a tiny keyboard (which sits >> alongside an Apple Magic Trackpad, which I also really like). > > I've always preferred a keyboard without a number pad, both for the > space savings and that it allows you to place the mouse closer to where > your hands are on the keyboard. > > I wonder why no one has made a keyboard with a track ball in place of > the number pad. I remember seeing a few keyboards with track balls on > them back in the early 90's, but I'm pretty sure they still had number > pads. They were huge. Here's one beauty of the trackpad. Its the exact same depth and pitch as the keyboard, so you can put them side by side as if it were a single continuous unit, or you can split them apart. I tend to go with mine split apart and at a slight angle from perfectly aligned with the keyboard. > Dan Ritter wrote: >> The actual advantage of an island key arrangement is that >> instead of having a huge hole in your laptops's case, you have >> a nice panel with small holes cut out of it. Stiffness goes up >> considerably. > > Ah, good point. Not unlike the way a convertible car tends to have a lot > more body twist. > > Myself, I haven't observed keyboard flexing issues on laptops...at least > not with my Acer. I have minor flexing issues with the keyboard on my ThinkPad T61 that are non-existent with my MacBook Pro. -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
Ethan Schwartz wrote: > Tom Metro wrote: >> Newer HP laptops reverse the logic of the Fn modifier key, such >> that you have to press the modifier to get the traditional F1-F12 >> function. > > Those same HP's also have an option in their BIOS that lets you decide > whether to the Fn modifier default to on or off, so it's user customizable > if you know where to look Ah, good to know. Anyone know if the hardware-centric key functions (bright/dim; vol up/down; etc.) produce some sort of standard scan codes? I've been assuming that they are proprietary, due to the way they tend to vary by laptop model, but seeing them on that Genius desktop USB keyboard makes me wonder. (Though most of those keys are media keys, which I think are semi-standard.) > My fingers tend to catch on the 90* edge of the keys as I type. Interesting. I didn't notice that with my brief trial of the Genius and Apple keyboards. Bill Horne wrote: > Cntl-X|C|V is universal AFAIK... I believe the Shift-Delete/Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert shortcuts for cut/copy/paste were introduced to Windows back in the 2.0/3.0 era, and considered part of IBM Common User Access (CUA)[1] standard, or at least Microsoft's interpretation of it. (Yeah, according to Wikipedia, those are the CUA shortcuts for cut/copy/paste.) 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_User_Access I think the Ctrl-X/C/V combo was the windowized version of Apple's Option-X/C/V and adopted later on Windows. I'm pretty sure it was a while before that combo was universally supported by all widgets on Windows. Thus, I'm preferential to Shift-Delete/Ctrl-Insert/Shift-Insert. Not to mention that my typing is right-hand dominated and those keys are all easily typed with the right hand. > "Chiclet" keys are probably the result of pressure-pad switch > matrices instead of individual switches under each key. The 80's version, yes. Typically a one-piece silicone membrane, sometimes with plastic key caps. The modern version has more typical mechanical key switches underneath. Though how "mechanical" a typical modern keyboard switch is, is another matter. Most use a far simpler mechanism than IBM's "buckling spring" mechanism. Jarod Wilson wrote: > Mine is without number keys, and I haven't missed them...it makes for > a lot of spare room on my desk with such a tiny keyboard (which sits > alongside an Apple Magic Trackpad, which I also really like). I've always preferred a keyboard without a number pad, both for the space savings and that it allows you to place the mouse closer to where your hands are on the keyboard. I wonder why no one has made a keyboard with a track ball in place of the number pad. I remember seeing a few keyboards with track balls on them back in the early 90's, but I'm pretty sure they still had number pads. They were huge. Dan Ritter wrote: > The actual advantage of an island key arrangement is that > instead of having a huge hole in your laptops's case, you have > a nice panel with small holes cut out of it. Stiffness goes up > considerably. Ah, good point. Not unlike the way a convertible car tends to have a lot more body twist. Myself, I haven't observed keyboard flexing issues on laptops...at least not with my Acer. > For desktop keyboards, I'm typing on an IBM Model M right now... Yeah, we've discussed the Model M on the list several times, and I agree that it is probably the best built keyboard, and I liked the feel of it best until I got used to typing on my laptop. Now when I use it, it feels very heavy and sluggish. The long travel and stiff key action also tended to induce some form of repetitive strain injury. So now that I'm considering relegating my laptop's screen to secondary screen duty, which necessitates mounting it floating above my desk, I'm shopping for a desktop keyboard. I'm looking for something compact, without a number pad, like the Model M I have, but with a more laptop-style key action. Mark J Dulcey wrote: > Loud clicky keys might be fine for a desktop keyboard, but they're a > terrible idea for a laptop that is likely to be used in a crowded > room. True. Even for a desktop it can pose problems. Trying to have a phone conversation while typing on my Model M could be a challenge. > I don't like the chiclet keys on my latest HP as much as I liked the > more conventional keyboard, but more because of the ultra-low travel. I > also don't really like the flatter keytops. The separation is "meh"; > makes little difference either way so far as I can tell. So if you could get a Chiclet keyboard with a bit more travel and with concave key tops, you'd be OK with it, but don't really see any advantage to it? -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA "Enterprise solutions through open source." Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
> Loud clicky keys might be fine for a desktop keyboard, but they're a > terrible idea for a laptop that is likely to be used in a crowded room. I have to admit I even find clicky keys annoying when others are using them in the same office space as mine. I haven't used a Microsoft Natural style (ergo, split keys) keyboard in years, but when I did, I loved it. I even got used to the "soft touch" keys. > And yes, keyboards, especially laptop keyboards, need to be more > durable. I had to replace the keyboards on both my previous laptops (not > the current one -- yet) mid-life because I wore them out. I had a Dell Latitude for several years of good and hard service, but I went through 3 keyboards and 2 trackpads. At least you can get them cheap on eBay and Dell even supplies (or at least then, supplied) free PDF manuals on how to do your own field replacement of pretty much any part. Ian ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 1/18/2011 6:31 PM, Dan Ritter wrote: > Yes, I like a steel plate on my keyboard so it doesn't move, > loud clicky keys that don't have to bottom out to register, and > keyswitch construction that can last for years and years and > years. Loud clicky keys might be fine for a desktop keyboard, but they're a terrible idea for a laptop that is likely to be used in a crowded room. Way back when I worked for Unitech we got in a laptop for evaluation and it had a click keyboard -- I couldn't help wondering "what were the designers smoking when they designed this?" And yes, keyboards, especially laptop keyboards, need to be more durable. I had to replace the keyboards on both my previous laptops (not the current one -- yet) mid-life because I wore them out. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 1/18/2011 5:03 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: >> No doubt this has been primarily driven by aesthetics (and I guess they >> assume most of their buyers are too young to remember the junky >> keyboards that looked like this in the 80's), but manufacturers claim >> that the design makes typing less error prone. As you would expect, this >> claim has been debated, and the issue gets muddied due to Apple's >> involvement. I don't like the chiclet keys on my latest HP as much as I liked the more conventional keyboard, but more because of the ultra-low travel. I also don't really like the flatter keytops. The separation is "meh"; makes little difference either way so far as I can tell. Like other recent HPs it has the reversed roles for the F keys. If I used software that used the F keys heavily (like Ami Pro back in the day, or WordPerfect in the even farther back day) I'd switch it back; the BIOS setting is available. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On 1/18/2011 3:35 PM, Tom Metro wrote > F-keys on laptops have had a second function to control the hardware, > such as changing the display brightness, when used with an Fn modifier > key. Newer HP laptops reverse the logic of the Fn modifier key, such > that you have to press the modifier to get the traditional F1-F12 > function. I rarely use either mode of these keys, so this wouldn't > bother me, except I see they also put Insert into the F-key row, and I > use that all the time. I tried making use of the Insert key on several > demo laptops (of course running Windows) as part of the Shift-Insert > shortcut for paste, but couldn't get it to work with or without the Fn > modifier. (Have they removed that shortcut from Windows?) Having to press the Fn modifier key to get the traditional F1-F12 functions would drive me crazy. On all versions of X Windows and MS Windows, ALT+F4 closes the current window. I use that all the time. Learning to press Fn+ALT+F4 on some systems and ALT+F4 on others would be a real pain! Mark Rosenthal ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 03:35:19PM -0500, Tom Metro wrote: > No doubt this has been primarily driven by aesthetics (and I guess they > assume most of their buyers are too young to remember the junky > keyboards that looked like this in the 80's), but manufacturers claim > that the design makes typing less error prone. As you would expect, this > claim has been debated, and the issue gets muddied due to Apple's > involvement. The actual advantage of an island key arrangement is that instead of having a huge hole in your laptops's case, you have a nice panel with small holes cut out of it. Stiffness goes up considerably. For desktop keyboards, I'm typing on an IBM Model M right now, have another one near me, and my personal Northgate Omnikey 101 is at work. I'm considering buying a PCKeyboards.com model which they claim is built to similar specs. Yes, I like a steel plate on my keyboard so it doesn't move, loud clicky keys that don't have to bottom out to register, and keyswitch construction that can last for years and years and years. I don't need a number pad much, though. -dsr- -- http://tao.merseine.nu/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference. You can't defend freedom by getting rid of it. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Jan 18, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Tom Metro wrote: ... > Apparently Sony resurrected this trend about 4 years ago, and a couple > of years ago Apple picked it up and popularized it. It has since spread > to many other laptop and desktop manufacturers. > > No doubt this has been primarily driven by aesthetics (and I guess they > assume most of their buyers are too young to remember the junky > keyboards that looked like this in the 80's), but manufacturers claim > that the design makes typing less error prone. As you would expect, this > claim has been debated, and the issue gets muddied due to Apple's > involvement. > > I can see merit in the concept, and would be curious to see if it would > cut down on the number of times I misfire the caps lock key when I > strike the "A" key. I tried out one in a store, and it seemed fine, but > you can't really tell in 5 minutes. Anyone lived with one of these > keyboard for a while? Yes. I've got a MacBook Pro and the Apple Wireless Keyboard. I'm using the wireless one 8-10hr/day at work right now, have been for a couple of months now. I rather like it. Still not sure if I like it more than an ergonomic split keyboard, but I'm definitely happy with it. Mine is without number keys, and I haven't missed them, I touch-type number on the top row sufficiently well enough, and it makes for a lot of spare room on my desk with such a tiny keyboard (which sits alongside an Apple Magic Trackpad, which I also really like). I can switch between the slightly different layout and required use of modifier keys for things like page up/down, delete, etc., on the Apple keyboard and a full ergo keyboard[*] without a problem. [*] a Microsoft(R) Wireless Natural(R) MultiMedia Keyboard -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Tue, 2011-01-18 at 15:35 -0500, Tom Metro wrote: > While looking at laptops and stand-alone keyboards recently, I see there > are several trends happening. I'd be curious to know what people think > of these "features." > > Number pads seem to be showing up on more laptops, even those with 15" > screens. I guess this is in part due to the wide aspect ratio screens. > Have we all turned into accountants? Do you use your number pad? It's a waste of effort for me: I'm so used to using the top row number keys that a number pad is superfluous. > F-keys on laptops have had a second function to control the hardware, > such as changing the display brightness, when used with an Fn modifier > key. Newer HP laptops reverse the logic of the Fn modifier key, such > that you have to press the modifier to get the traditional F1-F12 > function. I rarely use either mode of these keys, so this wouldn't > bother me, except I see they also put Insert into the F-key row, and I > use that all the time. I tried making use of the Insert key on several > demo laptops (of course running Windows) as part of the Shift-Insert > shortcut for paste, but couldn't get it to work with or without the Fn > modifier. (Have they removed that shortcut from Windows?) Cntl-X|C|V is universal AFAIK, so I don't care where the insert key is when I copy/cut and paste. I only use it occasionally to switch to "overwrite" mode when editing text. As for having the other F# keys accessible only via a "Fn" key, that would depend on the applications I was using. If I were a WordPerfect user, I'd insist on having the traditional function. Those who prefer mice might not care. > Half height up/down keys. No doubt in an effort to save space and cost, > several manufacturers are making keyboards with the up/down keys > occupying the space of a single key. While Up/Down make be less used > than right/left, this seems like it could be a disadvantage. I'd be uncomfortable with that: I still use a number of "old world" programs that require the arrow keys for navigation. > By far the most visible trend in keyboards right now is "chiclet" keys > or more formally island-style keyboard. I suppose it depends on what each user prefers: "Chiclet" keys are probably the result of pressure-pad switch matrices instead of individual switches under each key. I could get used to one so long as I wasn't switching from "chiclet" to traditional all the time. Bill ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: keyboard trends
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Tom Metro wrote: > Do you use your number pad? > Yes, but I get along with out it... so on a laptop I may appreciate "full size" keys more than narrower keys + number pad. I also prefer the keyboard be centered with the screen, which usually isn't the case when a number pad is present. > Newer HP laptops reverse the logic of the Fn modifier key, such > that you have to press the modifier to get the traditional F1-F12 > function. Those same HP's also have an option in their BIOS that lets you decide whether to the Fn modifier default to on or off, so it's user customizable if you know where to look > I tried making use of the Insert key on several > demo laptops (of course running Windows) as part of the Shift-Insert > shortcut for paste, but couldn't get it to work with or without the Fn > modifier. (Have they removed that shortcut from Windows?) > I use CTRL-V for paste... But it's not a short-cut that is removed from Windows as far as I know, it still work for me with Win7. Half height up/down keys. > It's a pain in the butt... I don't like the smaller arrow keys > By far the most visible trend in keyboards right now is "chiclet" keys > or more formally island-style keyboard. I work with proto-type HPs ... when these first started appearing in their new designs about 4 years ago I was in agreement with my counterpart at HP that these things stunk vs. the keyboard used on the previous generation of HP laptops (I'm talking commercial machines, no consumer)... As bad as their notebook keyboard is, their netbook one seems worse as there is even less space between the keys. My fingers tend to catch on the 90* edge of the keys as I type. Quite a few times now I've been typing quickly and actually torn a key off the keyboard by catching it... glad I don't own these machines :) On these same machines they introduced the "trap door" mouse buttons which hinge at the top... they feel very awkward and cheap when pressed vs. the previous generation in my opinion. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
keyboard trends
While looking at laptops and stand-alone keyboards recently, I see there are several trends happening. I'd be curious to know what people think of these "features." Number pads seem to be showing up on more laptops, even those with 15" screens. I guess this is in part due to the wide aspect ratio screens. Have we all turned into accountants? Do you use your number pad? F-keys on laptops have had a second function to control the hardware, such as changing the display brightness, when used with an Fn modifier key. Newer HP laptops reverse the logic of the Fn modifier key, such that you have to press the modifier to get the traditional F1-F12 function. I rarely use either mode of these keys, so this wouldn't bother me, except I see they also put Insert into the F-key row, and I use that all the time. I tried making use of the Insert key on several demo laptops (of course running Windows) as part of the Shift-Insert shortcut for paste, but couldn't get it to work with or without the Fn modifier. (Have they removed that shortcut from Windows?) Half height up/down keys. No doubt in an effort to save space and cost, several manufacturers are making keyboards with the up/down keys occupying the space of a single key. While Up/Down make be less used than right/left, this seems like it could be a disadvantage. By far the most visible trend in keyboards right now is "chiclet" keys or more formally island-style keyboard. These keyboards get their name from the Chiclet brand rectangular gum that came in grid packaging. A traditional keyboard, as pictured in this closeup: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1266/857462331_07ece1cf96.jpg?v=0 has keys with tapered sides and little space between the keys. Chiclet keys have straight vertical sides, and a several millimeters of space between each key. Wikipedia covers it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard But they only talk about the historical versions. These types of keyboards were common on inexpensive electronics, and usually had a rubbery feel, and weren't known for being good for touch typing. This article talks about the modern incarnation: http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/04/19/so-what-is-a-%E2%80%98chiclet%E2%80%99-keyboard-anyway/ and has a good photo illustrating what they look like. The modern version retains much of the aesthetics, but has key switches typical of a laptop keyboard. Apparently Sony resurrected this trend about 4 years ago, and a couple of years ago Apple picked it up and popularized it. It has since spread to many other laptop and desktop manufacturers. No doubt this has been primarily driven by aesthetics (and I guess they assume most of their buyers are too young to remember the junky keyboards that looked like this in the 80's), but manufacturers claim that the design makes typing less error prone. As you would expect, this claim has been debated, and the issue gets muddied due to Apple's involvement. I can see merit in the concept, and would be curious to see if it would cut down on the number of times I misfire the caps lock key when I strike the "A" key. I tried out one in a store, and it seemed fine, but you can't really tell in 5 minutes. Anyone lived with one of these keyboard for a while? Some examples of products using this style of keyboard: Logitech Wireless Solar Keyboard K750 http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/k750-keyboard Apple Wireless Keyboard http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Wireless-Keyboard-Retail-Packaging/dp/B002TMRZOQ/ Apple Keyboard MB869LL/A http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB869LL-A-Keyboard/dp/B001UH4VFW/ Super Slim USB 2.0 Mini Keyboard http://www.amazon.com/Super-Slim-Keyboard-Windows-Vista/dp/B003PHJJV6/ Genius LuxeMate i200 http://www.amazon.com/Genius-LM-i200-Compact-Multimedia-Keyboard/dp/B003YGVDDU/ The Apple keyboards and the "Super Slim" (no identifiable manufacturer) are all in the typical Mac white color and feature those half height up/down keys I mentioned. There are reports of the Apple keyboards being used effectively on UNIX systems, but the layout seems far from optimal. The "Super Slim" substitutes Windows keys, but otherwise is much the same. The Genius LuxeMate i200, better pictured here: http://www.excaliberpc.com/597800/genius-lm-i200-31310042101-usb-compact.html is also an Apple keyboard knockoff, but in black, and with a more UNIX friendly design. It appears to have the HP-style inverted function keys, and unfortunately insert and delete require pressing a modifier. Perhaps key remapping can easily fix that. It also has a pseudo number pad overlaid on the right half of the main keyboard, much like the compact IBM M-series keyboards have (had). Not sure how well a $20 keyboard will hold up, but I tried one at Micro Center and it seemed decent. (I would have bought one, but all the stock they had had been opened and was missing documentation and packaging.) -Tom -- Tom Metro Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA "Enterprise solutions through open source." P
