Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 11/17/2010 01:36 AM, e-letter wrote: Related to an earlier post (http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg02677.html), the following news article hyperlink (http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2010/11/12/ghanaian-sms-start-up-tackles-fake-drug-scourge/) is an interesting application of mobile phone technology and provides further credence to the importance of the future potential mobile devices market. Well, for what it is worth (which isn't much) I believe that we definitely need to get into the mobile market(even a mobile compatible web app would work, though a native client would be preferred). The first step, IMHO, would be to get a platform agnostic mobile interface designed and any platform independent code written. After that we could focus on getting it to work on Android, Iphone, etc. However, we'd have to look deep into the whole (L)GPL/Apple liscense compatibility issue before we started an iphone port.(May be that the alternative Mozilla Liscense that I believe we are using might be compatible?). Of course, first priority is to get a stable desktop version out the door :P. I also think a general web application should have high priority as well. Unfortunately, I doubt we have the resources to expand in all directions at once. I'll leave the details for the more experienced people to decide :P. Chris Carpenter P.S. I'd be very interested in helping in some small manner if we decide to write a app for Android, as i'm interested in Android App Development. Unfortuantely, I have no experience writing mobile applications, so there's no way I could lead such a venture. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
RE : Re: RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Copyright Assignments & the Document Foundation
Andrea, I disagree with your analysis, because it fails to include the development specifics. But anyway, we'll see. :-) Charles. Le 17 nov. 2010, 12:29 AM, "Andrea Pescetti" a écrit : On 07/11/2010 Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > The last minutes of the SC meeting explains that we will re... ...which means that at that point the only feasible solution will be to ask for agreement/assignment on a voluntary basis, or even reject completely this possibility. But, at the same time, waiting a few months will allow to finally discriminate whether the 50 or so new developers joined primarily because the required technical skills were lowered or because the copyright assignment was removed; if the removal of a copyright assignment was the main reason, then I see all of them moving to more substantial contributions by that time (and LibreOffice progressing dramatically!). Best regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundati... -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: RE : Re: RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Copyright Assignments & the Document Foundation
Hi Charles, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto: > Andrea, > > I disagree with your analysis, because it fails to include the development > specifics. What do you mean with "development specifics"? Maybe after we have clearly defined them we can deal with. Davide -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [FAQ] new entries (here: CA/JCA/SCA)
Andrea, Michael, Le Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:00:43 +0100, Andrea Pescetti a écrit : > On 03/11/2010 Michael Meeks wrote: > > I wrote a huge screed on the subject here: > > http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/copyright-assignment.html > > ... If the argument is that there is some negotiation with Oracle > > that this makes possible - then, I have to wonder why Oracle is > > happy to ship millions of lines of Mozilla code (under the MPL) > > that they can never own as part of the product. > > Yes, more or less that would be my argument. Or, to use your own words > (from your article): "If you are faced with aggression from a > copyright owner, turn their asymmetry against them: ask them to > accept code under the same terms they provide to others. ... Failing > that, just soft-fork the project, a-la MariaDB - paradoxically you > may want to collect copyright assignment yourself to be able to > affect an eventual reconciliation". > > What I was hoping was that the Document Foundation would act as a > "trade union" of developers, and be delegated rights on their code to > become a powerful stakeholder in discussing OpenOffice.org and > derivatives. I think I have already repeated enough times that by > this I do NOT mean that I expect/wish that the Document Foundation > gives all the rights to Oracle, of course. But I would expect that, > with a copyright agreement in place, it could get more recognition in > a possible reconciliation phase than what it can get by merely > relying on moral suasion. What do you think of this idea? http://blog.nooku.org/2010/11/nooku-contributor-agreement/ (It does not involve copyright). -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Suggestion to expand user base: enable screenplay formatting with LibreOffice
Le 2010-11-16 11:46, Michael Meeks a écrit : Looks interesting. However - I'm slightly worried that 'Develop' is no longer a top-level item. We -really- want to continue to encourage more and more people to get involved developing the product, and in particular diving into the code and helping to clean it up. As such, I'd -really- love to stick with a top-level, one-click "Develop" top-level, that will take people to a page showing them how to get the code, and get involved hacking :-) Good point Michael. Keep reminding us as we sometimes focus too much on one area to the detriment of others. I'll make a note of this. And send it back to the Drupal Dev. Team. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
Hi, :-) I'd like to suggest that the wiki should be reconfigured so that headings show numbering. It would make content on pages much easier to refer to (I know there's numbering in the Table of Contents block but, IMHO, it's not enough). David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [steering-discuss] By-Laws / BOD elections
Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: > Hello Varun > > > Le Wed, 17 Nov 2010 06:08:01 +0800, > Varun Mittal a écrit : > > >> Hi All, >> >> Maybe we can have a JCP like system wherein all members vote. >> >> We can also give the sponsors a particular number of seats ( non-veto >> powers) to the sponsors who have supported it . >> >> I propose not exactly a JCP like system but we can look at a modified >> version of JCP voting system >> >> What do you guys feel ? >> > > I am very much against your proposal that sponsors could have more > seats or something similar. One Member = One Vote. Clear and Simple. > > +1 > OTOH, I am not familiar with the JCP voting process. > But if I may suggest: perhaps that level of details does not need to be > mentioned in the bylaws? Keep in mind that everything we put there will > automatically be difficult to change. > > The difficulty of changing the voting procedure is a point to mention it in the by-laws. It shows from the beginning a distinct procedure of voting (whatever it looks like). This gives a reliability to each member/sponsor etc. that the voting-process isn't changeable that easy. Nobody must fear, that for the next election her/his vote doesn't count any more because a minority/small majority thinks to have found a better way of election. just 0,02 € Karl-Heinz -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
On Wednesday 17 November 2010 12:58, David Nelson wrote: > I'd like to suggest that the wiki should be reconfigured so that > headings show numbering. It would make content on pages much easier > to refer to (I know there's numbering in the Table of Contents block > but, IMHO, it's not enough). In localsettings.php, you can change numberheadings to 1 and be done with it. No code changes.[1] $wgDefaultUserOptions['numberheadings'] = 1; If desired, there is also an Extension [2] which allows tweaking heading numbering on individual pages. Nino [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Auto-number_headings [2] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MagicNumberedHeadings -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Inkscape vs. Draw
Hi My opinion, the Draw is a good application because is very easy to use, Inkscape is better because have more options to draw, but is to hard for the end-user use. Mayko Meier [image: banner.png] 2010/11/16 Ian Lynch > On 16 November 2010 14:35, Luc Novalès wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am OOo, and now LO user. > > > > Le 15/11/2010 14:22, RGB ES a écrit : > > > >> 2010/11/15 Ian Lynch: > >> > >> > >>> The point is that for me Inkscape is more usable and if there was an > >>> option > >>> to replace Draw with it in LO/OOo I'd take that option. Clumsy > >>> non-multi-tasking dialogues are just one of many issues. I guess if a > >>> long > >>> time supporter of OOo like me is saying this many others would too, so > >>> rather than trying to justify Draw's shortcomings we need to work out > how > >>> to > >>> prioritise improvements to Draw and learn from applications that do it > >>> better. > >>> -- > >>> Ian > >>> > >>> > >> I use Draw only for simply diagrams, for complex stuff I use Inkscape > >> or (maybe, I'm starting the tests with it) karbon14. > >> > >> > > Draw and Inkscape are not equivalent. To draw freely, I prefer Inkscape > > but in some cases I think Draw better to be integrated in an office suite > : > > > >- specific scale drawing (plans, technical drawing...) > >- automatic dimension lines > >- different export formats > >- multi-slide possibility > >- layers comportment (functional layer vs. position layer) > >- separated display and print layers functions > > > > > > Why not incorporate the best features of both products in one application? > This artificial separation of functions has no logic to it. Why would it be > a disadvantage to do specific scale drawings in Inkscape? Why would > automated dimension lines not be good in Inkscape? etc > > As we lost layers in OOo 1.0 impress module (used for multi-languages > > presentation or different displayed and printed documents ), replacing > Draw > > by another module should be damageable for LO usability. > > > > No-one is saying do a straight replacement of Draw by Inkscape. The point > is > that Inkscape has some very good features that would make Draw better > (probably Draw has some features that would be of benefit to Inkscape but > we > are talking about making LO better not Inkscape). I see no reason why > improving Draw with some of Inkscapes > > > > > > > Luc. > > > > -- > > > > _ o > > / \\ > > \_/ O ° > > > > Faites un cadeau aux générations futures, > > abandonnez votre voiture ! > > > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > > > > > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > > > > > > -- > Ian > > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications > The Schools ITQwww.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 > > You have received this email from the following company: The Learning > Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 > 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
RE : Re: RE : Re: RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Copyright Assignments & the Document Foundation
Davide, Sure. I mean that development patterns varies on the tasks at hand and their difficulty. So explaining what devs might change or not change due to the absence of a CA is misleading. A CA is a barrier to contribution, not a code development pattern. Best, Charles. Le 17 nov. 2010, 10:53 AM, "Davide Dozza" a écrit : Hi Charles, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto: > Andrea, > > I disagree with your analysis, because it fails to include the development > specific... What do you mean with "development specifics"? Maybe after we have clearly defined them we can deal with. Davide -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgPosting guidelines: htt... Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly ar... -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Community bylaws
Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > > possible solution: sponsor's paid developers shouldn't participate in > > ESC as *single* persons. Contributions in their free time and > > following cooptation in ESC should be carefully evaluated from BoD or > > Membership Committee. > > Hmm, I think it's a bit unfair to segregate corporate developers. On > the other hand, what I can propose would not apply to the ESC but to > the BoD: we can put a limit to members who are employees by the same > corporations to three persons max. > Hi Charles, all, yes, that would be good I guess. The exact number is I guess not too important, maybe have verbiage like "not more than 40% of the board" or something in place. It may also be helpful to further specify affiliation with a corporation - e.g. there may be other ways than employment, that influences decisions, like vested interest, significant business relationships / partnership etc. (see e.g. Gnome foundation bylaws, article VIII, section 2) Regarding the valid concerns about limiting director terms vs. keeping capable people / having a working board most of the time: what about staggering votes, like only elect 1/2 of the board each time? That way, existing board members can onboard newcomers, and there's no interruption / hand-over times. Other than that, I *do* believe limiting the time a person can serve is beneficial, since it makes sure fresh blood comes in. Regarding membership status, I kinda favour the opt-in approach - i.e. members that want to stay *have* to re-apply each year. Of course, re-application will be a formality most of the time (thus hopefully not contributing much to the load of the membership committee), but it will automagically limit members to people with active interest (and active email addresses ;)). Cheers, -- Thorsten -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Why a multi language installer for Windows?
Increasing the size of the full package seems to be discouraging. I can't see any point in creating a big multi language and a huge all language installer. Why isn't the same criteria used for other OSes where the smallest possible installer is available and then a small (<20Mb) language pack? -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Why-a-multi-language-installer-for-Windows-tp1917727p1917727.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 08:19 AM, Chris Carpenter wrote: > The first step, IMHO, would be to get a platform agnostic mobile interface designed and any platform independent code written. Platform independent code for mobile devices? The closest will be keeping the same code in Java, Objective C, and C#. (Symbian, Android & iPhone, and WinMo7. I'm leaving Blackberry out of this equation.) As far platform agnosticism goes, all data input has to be doable by keyboard, touch pad, and voice. > I also think a general web application should have high priority as well. That would be the Blackberry app. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM4/RIAAoJEOpnmQXT8Ln/9HMIALxugXaMmfZgJd22eavJuf16 99E9dJCseCaCxVMUNhLJy+d/T5ajpFq3Wb8u6Cdx8GSAimnDC6PRrmAPsaZ0Xxtr 4SRqYZwkeKmMhnl5QB9SfvTstXTvcEdYrclV0aUGo5PMeYil8ggEOq5ku6NKXrsg 242rw6+G05QQpJz3iRjG8jgEgAp+G57MsKiaS39G6NxbHGMPuPk04qOPagXh58CU GWYWwaIz4zFIuC7RZuoTwJAoBp93HKDnZKvjtGNp+Qi5n0CVaDm5LhHmNDiARNUT B2RZhsUKlaHaD0nRwYFl1Oj20w2aK0+IgDmQQyBxqr0uTWPTIXRSjCcWxkrIE1I= =ZeUr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: > Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to replace > Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in this discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved many of the same problems. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
Hi everyone, 2010/11/17 jonathon > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 11/17/2010 08:19 AM, Chris Carpenter wrote: > > > The first step, IMHO, would be to get a platform agnostic mobile > interface designed and any platform independent code written. > > Platform independent code for mobile devices? > > The closest will be keeping the same code in Java, Objective C, and C#. > (Symbian, Android & iPhone, and WinMo7. I'm leaving Blackberry out of > this equation.) > > > As far platform agnosticism goes, all data input has to be doable by > keyboard, touch pad, and voice. > > > I also think a general web application should have high priority as well. > > That would be the Blackberry app. > I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, as: - web apps can work offline and substitute for a desktop app (with HTML5 or Mozilla Prism technologies) - web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser (*+ WebKit supports touch gestures*) - there's no open source web-based office suite that supports ODF yet *(there's a discontinued text editor called EtherPad, and there's a suite called Feng Office that doesn't support ODF)* - an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app, as anyone can use it (*it can be integrated into any web service; this would really increase the popularity of both ODF and LibO*) - the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. The open-source Android is being sued by Oracle, Apple's app store rules don't agree with open-source licenses, and all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. *(If TDF was to develop a mobile version though, it'd be nice if it came first for the open-source OS's, like Android and Symbian.)* > jonathon > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM4/RIAAoJEOpnmQXT8Ln/9HMIALxugXaMmfZgJd22eavJuf16 > 99E9dJCseCaCxVMUNhLJy+d/T5ajpFq3Wb8u6Cdx8GSAimnDC6PRrmAPsaZ0Xxtr > 4SRqYZwkeKmMhnl5QB9SfvTstXTvcEdYrclV0aUGo5PMeYil8ggEOq5ku6NKXrsg > 242rw6+G05QQpJz3iRjG8jgEgAp+G57MsKiaS39G6NxbHGMPuPk04qOPagXh58CU > GWYWwaIz4zFIuC7RZuoTwJAoBp93HKDnZKvjtGNp+Qi5n0CVaDm5LhHmNDiARNUT > B2RZhsUKlaHaD0nRwYFl1Oj20w2aK0+IgDmQQyBxqr0uTWPTIXRSjCcWxkrIE1I= > =ZeUr > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 16, 2010, at 4:16 PM, BRM wrote: > It's other short-coming is that it's a do-one-thing-and-do-it-well piece of > software. > It won't replace a Bitmap editor, which is very useful for creating new > artwork > and getting the shading right. > > Yes, it does vector graphics and uses SVG. It's entirely designed around SVG. > Yes, you can probably export to other formats (been a while since I tried, > though I know at least PNG can be exported to). > But that doesn't resolve the need for doing coloration, etc in the way a > bitmap > editor can do it - which is the antithesis of InkScape. > There are strengths and weaknesses to both - and yes, InkScape does a great > job > at what it does. (I do love using it, and it's far far easier to use than > GIMP.) > But a suite like LibO needs both sides of the functionality. I've long wanted to see a simple raster (bitmap) image editor included in LibO. I'd like it to include basic image cropping, saving in different formats, and simple editing, similar to what Preview in Mac OS X provides. Outside of MS Paint, which isn't powerful enough, there's no pre-installed tool for Windows users to manage these functions--thus an opening for LibO to step in and fill this user need. (How many times have you received Word docs that just contain a pasted image, because they have no other way to save the file? This happens to me in business settings frequently.) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Inkscape vs. Draw
On 17 November 2010 13:44, Mayko Meier - Epidemus wrote: > Hi > > My opinion, the Draw is a good application because is very easy to use, > Inkscape is better because have more options to draw, but is to hard for > the > end-user use. Are you saying that Draw could not benefit from some of the advantages in Inkscape? Why do we persist with tunnel vision? IMHO Inkscape is easier to use than Draw for many basic tasks but not all. Small children in schools use it with ease so I don't think ease of use is a sensible argument especially if we are only talking about replicating things that improve Draw and that includes ease of use.. > Mayko Meier > [image: banner.png] > > > > > > 2010/11/16 Ian Lynch > > > On 16 November 2010 14:35, Luc Novalès wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I am OOo, and now LO user. > > > > > > Le 15/11/2010 14:22, RGB ES a écrit : > > > > > >> 2010/11/15 Ian Lynch: > > >> > > >> > > >>> The point is that for me Inkscape is more usable and if there was an > > >>> option > > >>> to replace Draw with it in LO/OOo I'd take that option. Clumsy > > >>> non-multi-tasking dialogues are just one of many issues. I guess if a > > >>> long > > >>> time supporter of OOo like me is saying this many others would too, > so > > >>> rather than trying to justify Draw's shortcomings we need to work out > > how > > >>> to > > >>> prioritise improvements to Draw and learn from applications that do > it > > >>> better. > > >>> -- > > >>> Ian > > >>> > > >>> > > >> I use Draw only for simply diagrams, for complex stuff I use Inkscape > > >> or (maybe, I'm starting the tests with it) karbon14. > > >> > > >> > > > Draw and Inkscape are not equivalent. To draw freely, I prefer > Inkscape > > > but in some cases I think Draw better to be integrated in an office > suite > > : > > > > > >- specific scale drawing (plans, technical drawing...) > > >- automatic dimension lines > > >- different export formats > > >- multi-slide possibility > > >- layers comportment (functional layer vs. position layer) > > >- separated display and print layers functions > > > > > > > > > > Why not incorporate the best features of both products in one > application? > > This artificial separation of functions has no logic to it. Why would it > be > > a disadvantage to do specific scale drawings in Inkscape? Why would > > automated dimension lines not be good in Inkscape? etc > > > > As we lost layers in OOo 1.0 impress module (used for multi-languages > > > presentation or different displayed and printed documents ), replacing > > Draw > > > by another module should be damageable for LO usability. > > > > > > > No-one is saying do a straight replacement of Draw by Inkscape. The point > > is > > that Inkscape has some very good features that would make Draw better > > (probably Draw has some features that would be of benefit to Inkscape but > > we > > are talking about making LO better not Inkscape). I see no reason why > > improving Draw with some of Inkscapes > > > > > > > > > > > > Luc. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _ o > > > / \\ > > > \_/ O ° > > > > > > Faites un cadeau aux générations futures, > > > abandonnez votre voiture ! > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ian > > > > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications > > The Schools ITQwww.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 > > > > You have received this email from the following company: The Learning > > Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 > > 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > > > > > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** > > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQwww.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On 17 November 2010 16:17, Benjamin Horst wrote: > On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: > > Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to > replace > > Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. > > Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in this > discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for > improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved many > of the same problems. > One thing I really like in Inkscape is the object alignment tools. Very easy to use and very powerful. Surely that would not be too difficult to implement in Draw? -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQwww.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] New Icon theme set
I am very sorry, if I disturb you, but is there a download link for the new Theme and may I help to make it a little bit better? ( if possible) Florian -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
Am 17.11.2010 08:36, schrieb e-letter: Related to an earlier post (http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@documentfoundation.org/msg02677.html), the following news article hyperlink (http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2010/11/12/ghanaian-sms-start-up-tackles-fake-drug-scourge/) is an interesting application of mobile phone technology and provides further credence to the importance of the future potential mobile devices market. I don't think a huge Office-Suite is necessary for mobile devices, but a reader for all and the module Writer would be a very nice idea -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
2010/11/17 Florian Reisinger : > > I don't think a huge Office-Suite is necessary for mobile devices, but a > reader for all and the module Writer would be a very nice idea > -- Never used it, but look at the VisorODFMovil project: http://visorodfmovil.morfeo-project.org/archives/androidodf-launched -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: >I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. > web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] > an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. > the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. >all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM5B16AAoJEOpnmQXT8Ln/ovsH+wXORPcakkt8IBBVDOd9nL4D 8iMcCLjeb6vTiYcsVsmFOET9SEJaYuwSfX9ndqDYpL/nWRQf37CcLrOg8eToNHG2 6gk/kfGhCdHgoB6A10fhUG0SobVAmwtKO1+q2pCg/t4+FKKWGhHIZF0n1+FLJemY YwNH9KZtKMVtmSWPJQ7PV/9cRL9wMIn6dD8R5pH3AUFFumjsNZrXvCxFdQqStfFc /D/Wb2ubrj09aD63Wk5yv3MQEnJg4eDpcH6p57AehyjhFEzQT3LKTH2tIzB1hY0I jO64dlR8Ylek8nzPv2gWTq/hxSpie7h2Kwnumdem7CbN5uUKN9XRaW4DFChHlr0= =9+SV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I don't think web apps will prove all that popular. Call me a Luddite if you like but ... -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 18:54, Harold Fuchs wrote: On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I don't think web apps will prove all that popular. Call me a Luddite if you like but ... Sorry to reply to my own post but there's something I forgot: What guarantees do I get that a document I prepare today will be properly processable by the web app provider's software tomorrow? Do I have any control over the version of the software I use? -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/new
Re: [tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
Hi Nino, hi David! Am Mittwoch, den 17.11.2010, 13:16 +0100 schrieb Nino Novak: > On Wednesday 17 November 2010 12:58, David Nelson wrote: > > > I'd like to suggest that the wiki should be reconfigured so that > > headings show numbering. It would make content on pages much easier > > to refer to (I know there's numbering in the Table of Contents block > > but, IMHO, it's not enough). > > In localsettings.php, you can change numberheadings to 1 and be done > with it. No code changes.[1] David, you refer to references to the page. I think one of the advantages of a wiki page is, that the content might change quickly/easily ... and so does (might) the numbering. It is more a "living" document. I think this is the reason for omitting the heading numbers (in the default setting). I don't know if this answers you question, but I usually use the links from the TOC to refer to a certain section. But also they might change ... so there is a possibility to refer to a certain version of the page as well. [...] Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [steering-discuss] next SC call on Saturday
Hi all! I'm sorry, but I won't make it. We'll have some family party "outside" ... which means no internet access. But - this is the good side - traveling will require some time. So I can (maybe) work on the stack of oh-so-long delayed things :-) Cheers, Christoph Am Mittwoch, den 17.11.2010, 20:58 +0100 schrieb Volker Merschmann: > Hi, > > 2010/11/17 Florian Effenberger : > > Volker Merschmann wrote on 2010-11-17 11.02: > >> > >> I've updated the wiki page and will try to attend hearing. > >> The SC members are asked to add an agenda. > >> > >> Please remember taking notes this time. > > > > thanks! Can you add "taking notes" to the wiki agenda? I'm on the road with > > flaky internet access... > > > Done. > > Please add your AI now > > Thx > > Volker > > -- > ++ Volker Merschmann - ODF-Software Contributor > -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
2010/11/17 Harold Fuchs > On 17/11/2010 18:54, Harold Fuchs wrote: > >> On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: >> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: >>> >>> I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, >>> >>> This should be an independent project. >>> >>> In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so >>> that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a >>> new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. >>> >>> web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser >>> >>> The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is >>> not always cheap. >>> [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable >>> connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable >>> connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per >>> kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] >>> >>> an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; >>> >>> The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number >>> of people that can, and will use it. >>> >>> the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear >>> platform to develop for. >>> >>> If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait >>> forever. >>> >>> At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and >>> three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant >>> platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to >>> code for. >>> >>> The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile >>> device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with >>> another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different >>> platforms to code for. >>> >>> In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty >>> different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of >>> cross-platform availability. >>> >>> all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of >>> marketshare that iOS and Android have. >>> >>> 2010 2Q Marketshare >>> Symbian: 41.2% >>> RIM: 18.2% >>> Android: 17.2% >>> iOS: 14.2% >>> WinMO: 5% >>> Linux: 2.4% >>> Other: 1.8% >>> >>> Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) >>> >>> To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than >>> twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market >>> penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. >>> >>> Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: >>> Symbian: 51.0% >>> RIM: 19.0% >>> iOS: 13.0% >>> WinMo: 9.3% >>> Linux: 4.6% >>> Android: 1.8% >>> Other: 1.2% >>> >>> * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the >>> thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; >>> * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can >>> even get that high; >>> * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. >>> * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government >>> agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. >>> * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their >>> oxygen supply will extinguish them; >>> >>> jonathon >> >> >> I think there's another consideration here: security. >> >> What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of >> any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's >> employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by >> hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me >> accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service >> provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I >> suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have >> this technology readily available (see below). >> >> What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and >> subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? >> >> What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability >> of any document I may store on its server? > > > > A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole >> kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to >> such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to >> me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust >> (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may >> say. > > I agree -- security is definitely an issue. But it's always going to be an issue, with everything that's online. There's always going to be a host that has access to everything you upload. However, with an open-source web app, you get the options of: a) hosting the web app yourself, so that no third party has control over your files b) down
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 21:45, Mirek M. wrote: 2010/11/17 Harold Fuchs On 17/11/2010 18:54, Harold Fuchs wrote: On 17/11/2010 18:22, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 04:25 PM, Mirek M. wrote: I'd say that a web app should have higher priority here, This should be an independent project. In an ideal world, the code would be modular and clearly commented, so that any developer could pick up various pieces, either to port it to a new platform/OS, or to refine them a specialized function. web apps work on all platforms with a modern browser The Internet is not always available. And where it is available, it is not always cheap. [ The data plan for my smartphone costs double that of my cable connection, but only offers 1/10,000 of the data transfer that my cable connection offers. Data transfer surcharges can reach US$1.00 per kilobyte. (Data transfer, not data speed.) ] an open-source web app has many more possible uses than a desktop app; The number of potential users is meaningless. What counts is the number of people that can, and will use it. the mobile OS market is still pretty unstable: there's no clear platform to develop for. If you are waiting for a clear platform to develop for, you will wait forever. At best, there will be three dominant platforms for mobile devices, and three dominant platforms for desktop devices, and three dominant platforms for gaming consoles, for a total of ten different platforms to code for. The worst case scenario is that there will be five dominant mobile device platforms, with another five dominant desktop platforms with another five dominant gaming consoles, for a total of sixteen different platforms to code for. In either instance, you are looking at between twenty and thirty different platforms, in order to support user-expectations, in terms of cross-platform availability. all the other mobile operating systems haven't yet reached the level of marketshare that iOS and Android have. 2010 2Q Marketshare Symbian: 41.2% RIM: 18.2% Android: 17.2% iOS: 14.2% WinMO: 5% Linux: 2.4% Other: 1.8% Source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013 (August 2010) To call Android and iOS marketshare leaders, when they are more than twenty percentage points behind the OS with the highest market penetration reveals a lack of knowledge of mobile device marketshare. Compared to 2009 2Q the marketshare is not there either: Symbian: 51.0% RIM: 19.0% iOS: 13.0% WinMo: 9.3% Linux: 4.6% Android: 1.8% Other: 1.2% * Symbian will probably retain first position, but it won't have the thirty percentage point advantage in marketshare that it used to have; * Due to manufacturing issues, iOS won't get above 20% --- if it can even get that high; * Android will flatten out at between 20% and 25%. * Assuming RIM can satisfy the voyeurism that afflicts government agencies, it should hold steady at between 15% and 20%. * The other platforms will be holding their breath, wondering if their oxygen supply will extinguish them; jonathon I think there's another consideration here: security. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? What prevents the operator's employees or ex-employees accessing my documents? What prevents drive-by hackers accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting me accessing my documents? What prevents someone targetting the service provider accessing my documents? Can I set passwords on my documents? I suppose I could encrypt my document but most people probably don't have this technology readily available (see below). What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the availability of any document I may store on its server? A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. Even without going to such lengths, the security, availability and back-up/recovery is up to me, not up to some unknown company whose procedures I cannot trust (based on fairly recent history in many cases) whatever its policies may say. I agree -- security is definitely an issue. But it's always going to be an issue, with everything that's online. There's always going to be a host that has access to everything you upload. However, with an open-source web app, you get the options of: a) hosting the web app yourself, so that no third party has control over your files b) downloading the web app and running it offline In several cases, storing documents on a server outside the owner's country (or geographic region) could well be illegal. I'm not at all convinced that people and, more particularly, corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. When they do I don't think web apps will p
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 06:54 PM, Harold Fuchs wrote: > What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? Personal cloud servers: The cloud that _you_ run in your home, office, or SOHO. > What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? Any individual or organization that thinks that a non-personal cloud offers viable long term storage of anything is delusional. > A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. The point of the web application is to _supplement_ existing apps, not replace them. >corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. Corporations have been using cloud apps for decades. The only thing that is new about them is a sexier name. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM5FYZAAoJEOpnmQXT8Ln/2VoIAJZDuZB6VsRfXyYcgyw4d/SL 6dZJv0yqhCmKdgF+hYTDtnriyl/LywF8Ah3WOj+0pyH2zhuBzF2sFFAuuS/VdZqJ kiwMbcFnzfdarkz6h+4ogjDglO4DzjluDONm2CG3XyZW5pRc7q9dO8fSpJF6Yrh9 w2DoHrbiRlaMzhzlJy5PCrOcnc28svPp7JGifa2b/N6IU6MseIlR1fSuBOU0I+X3 XFdc/foOhXdIK1qmHAeibwsmlI+L8H1UhhgaCkD5CLmhpS3TisIUFirdGNHxseuB Ig2Af+a0mw7zzNxQ4H1nFGXVxkERFmOFCtUFMIi7iVFfN+xB9CM6j64E3M2YoSs= =fPn3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
David, I would also love to see heading numbering introduced into the wiki. This would bring the wiki format up to standard with the LibreOffice documentation heading format. Christoph's concern about linking is a concern. Does anyone know if heading numbers can be introduced into MediaWiki as a display only feature without impacting the links? Michael Wheatland -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
David, I would also love to see heading numbering introduced into the wiki. This would bring the wiki format up to standard with the LibreOffice documentation heading format. Christoph's concern about linking is a concern. Does anyone know if heading numbers can be introduced into MediaWiki as a display only feature without impacting the links? Michael Wheatland -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: > On 17 November 2010 16:17, Benjamin Horst wrote: >> On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: >>> Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to >> replace >>> Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. >> >> Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in this >> discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for >> improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved many >> of the same problems. >> > > One thing I really like in Inkscape is the object alignment tools. Very easy > to use and very powerful. Surely that would not be too difficult to > implement in Draw? I agree--these would be a major benefit for Draw users. They may be my biggest feature request for Draw as well. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
[tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
On 17/11/2010 22:24, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/17/2010 06:54 PM, Harold Fuchs wrote: What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the security of any document I may store on its server? Personal cloud servers: The cloud that _you_ run in your home, office, or SOHO. Name one. What guarantees do cloud service operators give about the backing-up and subsequent recovery of any document I may store on its server? Any individual or organization that thinks that a non-personal cloud offers viable long term storage of anything is delusional. Tell that to Google. A large part of the point of a portable app is that I can put the whole kit and caboodle on an encrypted device if I want. The point of the web application is to _supplement_ existing apps, not replace them. It will be a minor supplement for trivial uses. I might generate my Christmas cards using a web app but I wouldn't trust one with my CV. Christmas cards perhaps, Christmas card list, no. Many of the people I know wouldn't want me putting their names and addresses, or the names of their kids, on the web. corporations, have really analysed the implications of web apps and cloud computing. Corporations have been using cloud apps for decades. The only thing that is new about them is a sexier name. Yes. I worked for 27 years for a company offering cloud services. We had to give all sorts of guarantees, including having bonded employees in the server centres. It was a huge problem. Since then privacy laws relating to exporting data outside national boundaries have been introduced that would have killed the business had they been in force at the time. Also, I doubt it could be made profitable at the sort of price being touted nowadays, and if those prices were increased to profitable levels, people would refuse to pay. One of the major pushes towards cloud computing is the idea of the thin client - a user's device that really has no operating system and is actually incapable of running local applications; it can only run a web server. This concept completely negates the idea of a local cloud. jonathon -- Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Why LO mobile version should not be ignored
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/18/2010 12:00 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote: >> Personal cloud servers: The cloud that _you_ run in your home, office, or >> SOHO. > Name one. Ubuntu for one In Synaptic, select "mark packages by task", then scroll down to "cloud computing cluster" and "cloud computing node". >> offers viable long term storage of anything is delusional. > Tell that to Google. Google is acutely aware of the problems with long term storage in the cloud. > or the names of their kids, on the web. Not the Internet, but your _personal_ cloud. The thing that you access at home using your PDA, e-Book reader and the like. > This concept completely negates the idea of a local cloud. Thin clients almost mandate a local cloud. # Computers for home and SOHO usage are going in two contradictory directions: * Smaller -> thin client only; * Bigger -> network clusters/Beowulf clusters; The thin client is what you'll take when you go out. The network cluster that functions as your cloud, where your real data will be stored. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJM5Ho1AAoJEOpnmQXT8Ln/WDwH/2/r2zCV16xwqoLCgDZDiCQF jxOrlkFhFcrjcmlZ05tN1SrMwq3Jk/tH0hTGhFancD8fpxaIZ+DwXBOK2ONLVVvK Us9J9bCQcarrXi+ziHjtKZmEJQnE8frguLnqJe3S+D6VbWf7hZVihzQ6LZIv5FaK IoFjrxIIDVw97a/ZeYi3pXabHydn+tZMvbmjDaasGxVnllt+r40YZZHuZJ/Vf1Ev IjYrHoxWEr7pYpoBWF5tmSNYvMrHC3FYSQC9ohX/QIWGVmocxBqQ9I222LC8/lIC rXKtOMmvIDYAlv0ilj1TJ6b9fis6X0piSlVHKPHQPzTsHZA3Xu53koajMuA8Whk= =YDet -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Wiki heading styles need numbering
Hi, :-) On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 06:40, Michael Wheatland wrote: > Christoph's concern about linking is a concern. Does anyone know if heading > numbers can be introduced into MediaWiki as a display only feature without > impacting the links? Well I guess one can "hard-write" them into the text. But then you need the TOC to be numberless like the headings in the body... Maybe useful to have two style sheets available - one with numbering and one without... David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
On 17 November 2010 22:53, Benjamin Horst wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: > > On 17 November 2010 16:17, Benjamin Horst wrote: > >> On Nov 16, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Ian Lynch wrote: > >>> Think this has lost the plot :-) The argument was not necessarily to > >> replace > >>> Draw with Inkscape but to learn from it. > >> > >> Excellent--this is what I was hoping we were collectively thinking in > this > >> discussion. Using successful attributes of Inkscape as inspiration for > >> improvements to Draw is a great approach, since it has faced and solved > many > >> of the same problems. > >> > > > > One thing I really like in Inkscape is the object alignment tools. Very > easy > > to use and very powerful. Surely that would not be too difficult to > > implement in Draw? > > I agree--these would be a major benefit for Draw users. They may be my > biggest feature request for Draw as well. Well they are there in a different form and a bit simpler so it should not be too big a task to improve them. Going for relatively simple tasks that make a significant difference is most cost-effective in use of resources. > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQwww.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
