Re: [steering-discuss] TDF SC call in CW 17
I will close the poll tomorrow, so if you haven't voted yet, please do so :-) Florian Effenberger wrote on 2011-04-26 11.37: it's time for another call. :-) As discussed earlier, one week it will be during the week, the next week it will be on the weekend. Calendar week 17 is on the weekend: http://www.doodle.com/pgca7dxmgea8hrk5 Let us know when you have time. -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] Announcing the ESC?
not to nit-pick, but I've just re-read the ByLaws, and nothing in there require member of the ESC to be Member of the Foundation. The Engineering Steering Committee [ESC] is composed of developers who are appointed: they are not required to be elected, and the ESC can be staffed by as many members as necessary. here is is 'members' as in member of the ESC, not Member as in Member of TDF. The ESC is neither an elective body nor an elected committee: it provides technical guidance. It can be placed under administration by the BoD; in this case, the BoD will have the power to appoint a new ESC, in whatever manner it deems appropriate. e.g. the BoD could appoint Linus Thorvald if it wants, regardless of whether or not Linus filled a TDF membership request... or even is eligible. Granted that, since The Engineering Steering Committee provides technological guidance on strategic matters and, hypothetically, will be composed of the Community's best engineers., one could argue that ESC member are expected to be eligible (modulo the 3 month waiting period, and the 6 month 'moral' commitment :-) ) to TDF membership, but they don't have to be effectively Member in good standing. iow: the ESC composition could be announced independently of the advancement of the work of the Membership Comity. Norbert -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
How about the issue that I mentioned earlier? At http://www.sitedossier.com/ip/174.121.218.38 it shows that there are 858 websites hosted at the same dedicated server as LibreOfficeForum.org. Hi again, Yes, I am using a shared hosting platform. I never claimed otherwise. I have used DownTownHost shared hosting for several years now, and I have been extremely satisfied with the speed and reliability. It's definitely good enough for a newly starting low-traffic forum, and if traffic were to ever go through the roof I could always upgrade to a dedicated server. I have no idea how they have their server farm set up or how many sites are running behind that public IP, etc. But I assume that you realize that the other sites you linked to are NOT mine? I administer precisely one other site on this server related to a hobby, no more, no less. Sorry if I sound terse or offended. I'm not. But I do want to set the facts straight. Thanks, Sam from LibreOfficeForum -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
Thanks Drew, that's good enough for me. On Apr 27, 2011, at 18:12 , drew wrote: On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 17:55 +0200, James Wilde wrote: On Apr 26, 2011, at 18:57 , David Nelson wrote: Hi Sam, I regretfully have to inform you that I had to remove the link to the LibreOfficeForum.org site at the request of Drew Jensen seconded by Charles Schulz. Sorry about that. Personally, I have no issues with your site. I think Drew is willing to debate the matter. Maybe a solution could be found? Would removing the advertising be a possibility? Anyway, just to keep you informed... I don't know whether I've missed something coming to this thread late, but is there an explanation of why they requested that the link be removed? Hi James, That would best come from me perhaps. The reason is actually rather simple - during this discussion it was apparent that a number of people where strongly opposed to linking directly to that forum. I do not think anyone would say that any type of agreement let alone consensus had been reached. while this was going one of the people with edit rights to the main web pages added links to the site, without I believe realizing that this was being discussed still. My asking that person to remove the link should be construed as meaning that the action was not appropriate at this time. Beyond that I would like to make a few comments more directly to a few points raised, but they would be best added to the emails in which they were raised and I will do so as time permits during the day. I hope that answers your question on the specific point. Best wishes, Drew Jensen -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] numbering in contents but not document
2011/4/28 Irmhild Rogalla irmhild.roga...@institut-pi.de: Todd, Am 27.04.2011 19:33, schrieb todd rme: Hi, is there a way to have a heading that is numbered in the table of contents but is not numbered in the document? So, for instance, the Table of Contents shows 1. Introduction, but the body of the document shows just Introduction? it's better to ask such questions at the users-list (see http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/); there you'll get help. This discuss list is more for general discussions about LibO. regards Irmhild Thanks, I meant to do so but sent it here by accident. By the time I realized it it was too late to undo it. I already sent the message to the other mailing list. -Todd -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, sb73...@libreofficeforum.org wrote: How about the issue that I mentioned earlier? At http://www.sitedossier.com/ip/174.121.218.38 it shows that there are 858 websites hosted at the same dedicated server as LibreOfficeForum.org. Hi again, Yes, I am using a shared hosting platform. I never claimed otherwise. I have used DownTownHost shared hosting for several years now, and I have been extremely satisfied with the speed and reliability. It's definitely good enough for a newly starting low-traffic forum, and if traffic were to ever go through the roof I could always upgrade to a dedicated server. I have no idea how they have their server farm set up or how many sites are running behind that public IP, etc. But I assume that you realize that the other sites you linked to are NOT mine? I administer precisely one other site on this server related to a hobby, no more, no less. Sorry if I sound terse or offended. I'm not. But I do want to set the facts straight. I got the impression from your initial post (you mentioned that «Good hosting is not cheap») that you had a dedicated server, and I assumed you were the owner of this shared hosting business. It is good that this issue is now clear. It helps to discuss things first when taking initiatives. Simos -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question
Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Question about proposing the creation of a new format
On 27 April 2011 21:42, Mark Preston m...@mpreston.demon.co.uk wrote: Dear good gods alive no! :eave the HTML to proper HTML IDE tools like Eclipse and don't try to be everything in one package. Hm, you mean like don't bother with OOo/LO because there are plenty of text editors, separate graphics editors and spreadsheets around. (Certainly Inkscape makes Draw largely unnecessary) Don't bother with TinyMCE/CKEditor because there is Dreamweaver and FrontPage (or vice versa). I wasn't actually suggesting any specific action so no need to jump to conclusions. All I'm saying is that looking at the way things are going, LO will either change or become irrelevant. How it would change is something that needs wider strategic thought but I don't see much evidence of this. OTOH it could all be happening behind the scenes. As I said, I'm sure Bill Gates said leave those toy phones to Nokia, RIM and Apple. Google seem to have been smarter. As mobile and web technologies take over I can see much harder times ahead for anyone dependent on local dependencies. On 26/04/2011 22:48, e-letter wrote: I think this is a very interesting issue. We are moving from the dominant technologies that were designed to put information on paper to the dominant need of presenting information on screens. With the revolution in digital readers this is only going to increase and then what relevance has document formats that are primarily designed to target hard copy output? If odf does not adapt it will become obsolete. Seems to suggest that LO should become some sort of html (or any other electronic format) editor? I am constantly irritated by having to download pdfs, .docs and so on when all I want to do is view the information without cluttering up my download May I suggest to use the 'load url' bar to read documents directly on the web? As for pdf documents, evince can open directly from the url when activated via the command terminal -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format
Hi, On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:42:27 +1000, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: On 25/04/11 7:11 PM, drew wrote: As far as LibreOffice being a display client for ebooks, I would agree it is not in scope. However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably. The writer2epub extension does a reasonably good job of that already, although I'd follow it up with editing in Sigil and probably final tweaking in Calibre. There is also a (commercial) ODFToEPub extension: http://www.pincette.biz/odftoepub/index.xhtml, http://www.pincette.biz/odftoepub/release_notes.txt. Best regards, Christophe -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 www.docarch.be Twitter: @RabelaisA11y -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format
Hi, On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:53:00 +0200, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Ben, *, On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: On 25/04/11 7:11 PM, drew wrote: As far as LibreOffice being a display client for ebooks, I would agree it is not in scope. However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably. The writer2epub extension does a reasonably good job of that already, although I'd follow it up with editing in Sigil and probably final tweaking in Calibre. There is also http://odt2daisy.sourceforge.net/ - in case your reader supports the daisy format. Other than that: what would be a special requirement for eReaders? I know PDF is suboptimal because it needs to scale to the display screen. (...) I don't know what software is used on eReaders, but Adobe Reader on the desktop supports reflow when you zoom in: press Crtl+4 (or go to View - Zoom - Reflow in the menus). To zoom in, simply press Crtl++ (like in many current browsers). Note that this requires tagged PDF. LibreOffice can output tagged PDF when you check that option in the PDF Options dialog that is displayed when you choose Export as PDF Adobe Reader has more accessibility options under Edit Preferences Accessibility; for example: Always use Zoom Setting, and Replace Document Colors (which allows users to override the colours defined by the author). So when you use properly tagged PDF, is is probably not the format itself that is at fault but the reader (=software). Best regards, Christophe -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 www.docarch.be Twitter: @RabelaisA11y -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:19:50 +0200, CaStarCo casta...@gmail.com wrote: There is a draft of the EPUB3 specification ( http://idpf.org/news/epub-3-specification-public-draft-released ), I think that this spec has many problems: Since this is a draft specification: has anyone tried sending comments? (Unfortunately, I don't see a real *invitation* for comments, which is unlike the process used for ODF, W3C specs, ...). Best regards, Christophe the capability of scripting (wich is potentially harmful), the low emphasis on semantic data (they use metadata, but specially related to the book structure, not with its content), to forget the 3d models type of media (epub3 only supports images, video and sound, but not 3d models wich the user could explore), and the absence of profiles (they talk about fallbacks, but only for scripting, not for media content). I suppose there are good reasons to choose that spec and not an extended one... but at that moment, I can imagine which reasons are. I think that would be interesting to program an ebook editor, to promote the EPUB use over other privative formats. Many lacks of the EPUB format can be covered with scripting, but hidding the scripting to the user, doing it automaticly behind the scene. If there are interested people, then I'm interested on helping working on webkit integration. Kind regards 2011/4/25 Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com On 04/25/2011 11:11 AM, drew wrote: However, should LibreOffice have support for producing documents targeted to eReaders? I don't know maybe, probably. I am not an expert on ebooks formats, but I know there are a lot of efforts around the ePub format to become a standard. Unfortunately, there are too many commercial interests around ebooks today for the development of a real independent standard. Anyway, should such a standard be defined and accepted, I would personally be in favour of supporting it, as documents are becoming more pervasive than in the past and in the future will be accessed through a multitude of devices (many of them being mobile). Best regards, Italo -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP +39.02.320621813 skype italovignoli -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 www.docarch.be Twitter: @RabelaisA11y -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:49:11 +1000, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: On 25/04/11 8:53 PM, Christian Lohmaier wrote: There is also http://odt2daisy.sourceforge.net/ - in case your reader supports the daisy format. I hadn't even heard of DAISY, but it looks very cool so thanks for pointing me at it. I just installed the extension and will have a little play with it at some nebulous point in the future. Great :-) (I am involved in the development of odt2daisy.) Since this thread mentions both ePub and DAISY I would like to point out that the IDPF (in charge of ePub) and the DAISY Consortium are working on a stronger convergence between the two formats. (It is no coincidence that two of the editors of the ePub spec at http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-overview.html represent the DAISY Consortium). This means that ePub 3 will contain more features to support accessibility for people with disabilities than in previous versions. (DAISY was designed for persons with reading impairments from the outset.) But it also means that whatever content you put into an ePub doc will need features to make that type of content accessible. For many types of content (images, video, audio) this involves the use of text alternatives. Making math and science accessible is still a challenge, in spite of many years of research. 3D was also mentioned in this thread - I don't know how that would be made accessible. Other than that: what would be a special requirement for eReaders? I can't speak for anyone else, but as long as an eReader can display content as it would in a normal book then it's good enough. If that book is a novel, then it will usually be pretty easy (e.g. text, italics, bold, small capitals, subscript, superscript and maybe footnotes). If that book is a text book (e.g. a science book) with charts, formula, pictures, etc.) then more may be required. I know PDF is suboptimal because it needs to scale to the display screen. When it comes to books, PDF is only really useful for type-setting a print book (e.g. the way Lulu uses them for preparing print on demand books). I think tagged PDF with reflow options in PDF readers (see one of my previous mails) changed that a bit. Adobe Reader even has a Read Out Loud function (but you will need to get used to synthetic speech). plain text might be boring to read (headings, etc hard to spot, lack of structural information for navigation), rtf might not be supported by the reader... Well, I wouldn't opt for either of those formats. So there probably is no one-size-fits all solution. And it depends on what the purpose is: personal use (i.e. conversion of random documents) or dedicated publishing (aim is to write a book and publish it) and thus how many restrictions you can impose on the structure/formatting of the document. Exactly. At this stage most ebook publishers, including self-publishers, usually need at least two or three formats for each publication and often more. Until your post I was considering PDF, ePub, Kindle (.mobi) and maybe one or two others (.lit and whatever Sony uses). Now you can add DAISY to the list too. It takes a little time to prepare all the relevant formats, but compared to the process of writing, proofing and editing, not really all that much. If you want a decent DAISY book, you will need (at the very least) to make sure that you use the correct styles for headings (to enable navigation) and that you mark the language(s) in the content correctly. Best regards, Christophe -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 www.docarch.be Twitter: @RabelaisA11y -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. This way, the user, seeking help on this page, will be informed of the outside links, informed of their solid performance in helping LO users, informed that there is no native forums at this point and informed that a forums board is still under consideration. Although quite verbose, it would inform users of the situation at this point and slow down the constant new threads about creating a native forums board. It is very clear that the forums topic is a recurring topic and that it will most likely never disappear until a native forums board is created OR until one/more of the external board adopt a name change that is more inclusive of the LibreOffice name. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. I agree Marc. I can't see into the future, but it is easy to imagine that there will be an active LibreOffice forum sometime. Easy to imagine that The Document Foundation would host it, sans ads. And that it will be the GoTo LibO forum. This will be the case increasingly as OpenOffice deteriorates (easy to imagine that too, IMO). I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of native forums board. Maybe official forum or forum sponsored by LibreOffice itself. Still under consideration may be technically accurate. I think that it would be understandable and land better with users to say something like implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO community. I don't want to offend anyone's delicate sensibilities, but the forum I use for LibO questions is Google Search. Search for openoffice forums or libreoffice forums, get more than a million results. Thus, I think that it would be effective to add something to Marc's write-up suggesting online search for solutions using either LibreOffice or OpenOffice as a qualifier. Carl This way, the user, seeking help on this page, will be informed of the outside links, informed of their solid performance in helping LO users, informed that there is no native forums at this point and informed that a forums board is still under consideration. Although quite verbose, it would inform users of the situation at this point and slow down the constant new threads about creating a native forums board. It is very clear that the forums topic is a recurring topic and that it will most likely never disappear until a native forums board is created OR until one/more of the external board adopt a name change that is more inclusive of the LibreOffice name. Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
Le 28/04/11 10:47 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.comwrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. I agree Marc. I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of native forums board. Maybe official forum or forum sponsored by LibreOffice itself. Still under consideration may be technically accurate. I think that it would be understandable and land better with users to say something like implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO community. I am just keeping out of any comment on the state of forums right now. It is just too explosive an issue. So, incorporating your suggestions, the text would read: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 10:47 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: Le 28/04/11 09:04 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Harold Fuchs hwfa.libreoff...@gmail.com wrote: Please, why does the LibreOffice web page link to the forums for OpenOffice.org ? The current LO Help web page at http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ has two links to OOo forums: - http://www.oooforum.org/ - http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ Harold Fuchs London, England Because they are a useful resource for getting LibreOffice help, as LibreOffice and OpenOffice closely resemble each other. There are millions of people using OpenOffice. There are fewer millions (so far) using LibreOffice. The OOo forums are more mature and more heavily trafficked than the LibreOffice forums. As the forums discussions are/have been/will be controversial, could we add a more informative comment on the web page/forums section. Something such Carl has just mentioned. Perhaps something like: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer a native forums board at this time. A native forums board is still under consideration. I agree Marc. I'm not sure that the average user will get the meaning of native forums board. Maybe official forum or forum sponsored by LibreOffice itself. Still under consideration may be technically accurate. I think that it would be understandable and land better with users to say something like implementation details are still being discussed by the LibO community. I am just keeping out of any comment on the state of forums right now. It is just too explosive an issue. So, incorporating your suggestions, the text would read: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc Yes, now only one issue... more mature is comparative, but there is no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this sentence to: These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online. Carl -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
Microsoft must be smiling. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
Hi Carl Le 28/04/11 11:22 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc Yes, now only one issue... more mature is comparative, but there is no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this sentence to: These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online. Carl So this newer version: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support to LibreOffice and can be found by searching online. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. I am not quite sure what is the significance of the and can be found by searching online. Remember, the reader is already on the LibreOffice website page getting help page.[1] I am not sure if it needs this part of the sentence as it is ambiguous. Cheers Marc [1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums - A Different Question
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 9:50 AM, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: Hi Carl Le 28/04/11 11:22 AM, Carl Symons a écrit : You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are more mature and heavily trafficked and offer quality support to the LibreOffice project. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. Does this sound more informative? Cheers Marc Yes, now only one issue... more mature is comparative, but there is no comparison present. (Well, one is implied.) I'd change this sentence to: These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support for LibreOffice, and can be found by searching online. Carl So this newer version: You can get support for LibreOffice from various independent forums run by LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org users and supporters. These forums are mature and heavily trafficked. They offer quality support to LibreOffice and can be found by searching online. LibreOffice does not offer an official forums board at this time. An official forums board is still under consideration. I am not quite sure what is the significance of the and can be found by searching online. Remember, the reader is already on the LibreOffice website page getting help page.[1] I am not sure if it needs this part of the sentence as it is ambiguous. Cheers Marc I'm fine if it's not there. Overly obsessive, but I'll work on getting over it B^) Carl [1] http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Forums... again
On 04/18/2011 03:11 PM, RGB ES wrote: Well, even if I'd said that the ancient forums vs mailing lists war was not the point but *what people use*, the forums vs. mailing lists useless fight came again... At first I was tempted to refer how the English forums have near 200 new message each day and talk about the madness it would be to receive near 200 mails each day. I was tempted to talk about how I'm giving on-line support to users since a long time (I started using computers more than 25 years ago) and justify the fact that I know quite well the advantages and disadvantages of every possible communication system in use for the last 20 years... Many things... But I'm giving up. Have a nice day! And don't worry to answer me, I'm unsubscribing from the mailing list. I do agree that, whatever their limitations, forums are the discussion platform of the masses and LibreOffice needs to form a community that includes the non-geek populace if it is to become the premier version of OpenOffice/Star Office. However, in this day and age 200 mails a day is hardly madness. Not when all major free email accounts have gigabytes of storage and the ability to filter mailing lists into their own label/folder, and when Thunderbird is able to handle a folder of 15000+ messages without breaking a sweat even on an antiquated machine like mine (Pentium 4 with 640 megs of ram). -- Isaac Hummel is...@daedaleus.com http://daedaleus.isaachummel.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Question about proposing the creation of a new format
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 28/04/11 9:28 PM, Christophe Strobbe wrote: On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:49:11 +1000, Ben McGinnes b...@adversary.org wrote: I hadn't even heard of DAISY, but it looks very cool so thanks for pointing me at it. I just installed the extension and will have a little play with it at some nebulous point in the future. Great :-) (I am involved in the development of odt2daisy.) Cool. Since then I've tried it on a couple of things and it is pretty nifty. Although I should really poke around for some decent DAISY software readers/players to see (and hear) how others would experience any given thing. Since this thread mentions both ePub and DAISY I would like to point out that the IDPF (in charge of ePub) and the DAISY Consortium are working on a stronger convergence between the two formats. That sounds good. (It is no coincidence that two of the editors of the ePub spec at http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-overview.html represent the DAISY Consortium). An excellent document, I probably won't delve too much into the spec, but it is excellent to see what it will be able to do. This means that ePub 3 will contain more features to support accessibility for people with disabilities than in previous versions. (DAISY was designed for persons with reading impairments from the outset.) This is what caught my attention with DAISY and why I'm now looking forward to ePub 3. It's a great example of where ebooks can level the field for everyone. I remember when I was a kid and already reading voraciously that my Nan did too. Unfortunately her eyesight was very bad, so the only books she could read were the large print books available at the local library and she couldn't read everything she wanted to. This always struck me as most unfair. We finally have the technology to render this situation a thing of the past and we should do so. But it also means that whatever content you put into an ePub doc will need features to make that type of content accessible. For many types of content (images, video, audio) this involves the use of text alternatives. Making math and science accessible is still a challenge, in spite of many years of research. 3D was also mentioned in this thread - I don't know how that would be made accessible. Fortunately for me my interest is essentially text only (regardless of whether it is fiction or non-fiction). So I don't have to worry so much about any of these, but it is definitely something to bear in mind and work on. When it comes to books, PDF is only really useful for type-setting a print book (e.g. the way Lulu uses them for preparing print on demand books). I think tagged PDF with reflow options in PDF readers (see one of my previous mails) changed that a bit. Adobe Reader even has a Read Out Loud function (but you will need to get used to synthetic speech). Since I've used PDF for the odd report (the last one was an anti-censorship thing), that's something I'll have to keep in mind for next time. Also for the political stuff. It takes a little time to prepare all the relevant formats, but compared to the process of writing, proofing and editing, not really all that much. If you want a decent DAISY book, you will need (at the very least) to make sure that you use the correct styles for headings (to enable navigation) and that you mark the language(s) in the content correctly. Appropriate use of styles and headings was already looking like it would be necessary for ePub and other things anyway. I take it with regards to the language marking you're referring to specifying the language for a document or paragraph (rather than just the default language of LibreOffice), right? Is there a guide somewhere of the right document/page/paragraph attributes needed to generate decent DAISY documents? Regards, Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAk26RlkACgkQNxrFv6BK4xPnCACfQ7qw5EbSJXy2jcj921Te8SCb rXgAoOgGOBwi9NIEVqU+dQnHUwRqw6YD =+61B -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
