Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-11 Thread Daniel Gonzalez

On 03/11/2011 01:51 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

Please correct the listing of the mailing lists by replacing them with
the TDF/LibreOffice mailing lists in Spanish.

With pleasure

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-11 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Daniel,

Please correct the listing of the mailing lists by replacing them with
the TDF/LibreOffice mailing lists in Spanish.

Thank you,
-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Membre du Comité exécutif
The Document Foundation.

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-10 Thread Daniel A. Rodriguez
I have edited es.libreoffice several times translating content from
main site and I'd like to know which are steps to follow from now on.




--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
Escuelas Libres :: Porque la educación es mucho mejor cuando es libre
http://www.escuelaslibres.org.ar/
---
Para entrenar, cualquier programa sirve. Para educar, sólo Software
Libre. (Federico Heinz)
---

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-10 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/10/11 4:07 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:


(I am a PLIO member but I'm not speaking on behalf of PLIO; and, again,
I realize PLIO has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion:
sorry for drifting off-topic).


By the way, no one at PLIO has doctored the Italian page to redirect 
subscription to mailing lists.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Andrea Pescetti

Italo Vignoli wrote:

On 3/9/11 9:53 PM, RGB ES wrote:

support to both, OOo and LibO and to help the Spanish localization of
both projects under the same "umbrella" (something similar to PLIO
project for Italian(1)). ...
Totally wrong. PLIO at the moment is divided between people that want to 
support both projects and people who are against TDF. I am not any more 
involved with PLIO in any way, as I have resigned from any role


This discussion is about OOoES, which I don't know anything about, and 
I'm not going to spend much time on it. However, since you mentioned 
PLIO, I'll just add to the words by Italo that PLIO is still acting as a 
group, with someone preferring OpenOffice.org, someone preferring 
LibreOffice, someone liking both and someone waiting. And work being 
actively done for both projects, although we are surely missing Italo's 
marketing activity.



(1) BTW, PLIO is "Progetto Linguistico Italiano OpenOffice.org", why
people here do not like to see the three "o" on oooES name?


You should ask to PLIO members, and I don't see PLIO members in this 
discussion.


The question was of course not meant for PLIO members.

(I am a PLIO member but I'm not speaking on behalf of PLIO; and, again, 
 I realize PLIO has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion: 
sorry for drifting off-topic).


Regards,
  Andrea.

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/9/11 11:59 PM, Jesús Corrius wrote:


Part of my family was killed because of the fascist violence in Spain
and I think this is not a matter of laughs or jokes.


Jesus, my grandfather Italo was killed by the fascists, because he was 
against Benito Mussolini. You can understand my feelings.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/9/11 11:36 PM, Roman H. Gelbort wrote:


In this point, you interrupt the dialog... Duce.


This answer shows that we need to break the ties with OOoES as soon as 
possible. Thanks for confirming that we are on the right track.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Jesús Corrius
> We, the sudacas, really need a great european (intelligent and good) that
> help us.
>
> In this point, you interrupt the dialog... Duce.

This answer is totally unacceptable.

Part of my family was killed because of the fascist violence in Spain
and I think this is not a matter of laughs or jokes.

-- 
Jesús Corrius 
Document Foundation founding member
Mobile: +34 661 11 38 26
Skype: jcorrius | Twitter: @jcorrius

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Roman H. Gelbort

El 09/03/11 17:52, Italo Vignoli escribió:

On 3/9/11 8:31 PM, Roman H. Gelbort wrote:


wow... you believe that this is the solution!!!


Yes, we do.


ok.. you have the power in LibO...


The community has the power, and the name of the software is 
LibreOffice. You do not represent the community.

Yes... is that I say... Can you read?

I think that this ridiculous result is a testimonial of the total lack 
of ability to grow and manage a community. On the other hand, a single 
Spanish community in such a diverse environment is simply foolish.

Very, very thank you!

We, the sudacas, really need a great european (intelligent and good) 
that help us.


In this point, you interrupt the dialog... Duce.

--
--
Prof. Román H. Gelbort
Piensa Libre - Partner oficial de OpenOffice.org Español
www.piensalibre.com.ar
--


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/9/11 9:53 PM, RGB ES wrote:


Maybe a wrong concept. Alexandro have the concept to give localization
support to both, OOo and LibO and to help the Spanish localization of
both projects under the same "umbrella" (something similar to PLIO
project for Italian(1)). The "implementation" and (specially) the
"promotion" of this idea could be (are) arguable, but not the idea
itself I think.


Totally wrong. PLIO at the moment is divided between people that want to 
support both projects and people who are against TDF. I am not any more 
involved with PLIO in any way, as I have resigned from any role because 
of this situation. Today, I am not even a member of PLIO.



(1) BTW, PLIO is "Progetto Linguistico Italiano OpenOffice.org", why
people here do not like to see the three "o" on oooES name?


You should ask to PLIO members, and I don't see PLIO members in this 
discussion.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread RGB ES
2011/3/9 Roman H. Gelbort :

> Alexandro isn't the trouble... you know what is?
>
Maybe a wrong concept. Alexandro have the concept to give localization
support to both, OOo and LibO and to help the Spanish localization of
both projects under the same "umbrella" (something similar to PLIO
project for Italian(1)). The "implementation" and (specially) the
"promotion" of this idea could be (are) arguable, but not the idea
itself I think.
I'd already said (to him and to the Spanish lists in general) some
time ago that I think it is not realistic to maintain the support of
both project on the same mailing list, but he believes that this is
not only possible but also feasible.
True, nobody answered my comment...
Someone could think he is stubborn... but you know: "the one who is
free from sin, throw the first stone" ;)
But I agree it is not correct to give external links on the official
LibO page in such not-so-transparent way. It should be perfectly clear
that oooES is an "external contributor" and not the official project.
So:
1- edit the es.libreoffice page. It is perfectly valid.
2- make it perfectly clear what is "official" and what is not and
provide guidelines about the allowed content on the different locale
projects.
ONLY IF these things fail start talking about more direct measures.
But please, do not overreact: otherwise you are committing the same
"sin" (being overzealous of their own ideas) of which you are accusing
Alexandro.
Just my 2¢

(1) BTW, PLIO is "Progetto Linguistico Italiano OpenOffice.org", why
people here do not like to see the three "o" on oooES name?

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***



Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/9/11 8:31 PM, Roman H. Gelbort wrote:


wow... you believe that this is the solution!!!


Yes, we do.


ok.. you have the power in LibO...


The community has the power, and the name of the software is 
LibreOffice. You do not represent the community.



Please... Alexandro "and his friends" (in your words) is the major
contributors in the spanish community.. if don't believe in my words...
please, search in the archieve of lists, and spanish forum.


We are not born yesterday but a few weeks before... We believe in what 
we have seen in years of contribution to the OOo project.


The Spanish community has never taken off because of the way it has been 
managed. It is difficult to believe, but the Spanish community WW is 
smaller than the Italian community (less than one tenth of native 
speakers WW).


I think that this ridiculous result is a testimonial of the total lack 
of ability to grow and manage a community. On the other hand, a single 
Spanish community in such a diverse environment is simply foolish. How 
can you believe that someone based in Mexico can manage volunteers in 
Spain or Chile? Can you please study a little bit of geography, in order 
to avoid this insanity?


By the way, I have taught geography at the university... so, I know just 
a little bit of cultural anthropology and country specificities.



Alexandro isn't the trouble... you know what is?


Yes, the problem is how the Spanish community has been insanely managed 
inside OOo. We do not want to duplicate the mistake, and in addition we 
do not like the way things are handled inside OOoES.


It looks like there are many Spanish speaking people that do not like 
this way either, and I totally understand them.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Roman H. Gelbort

El 09/03/11 13:30, Charles-H. Schulz escribió:

He will never behave in the proper way. We all know him, and the
>  damages he has done to the OOo Spanish community (which has never
>  been a real community). If we continue to keep the door open we will
>  never get a transparent situation, and the outside world will
>  continue to think that we are behind Alexandro.
>  

Italo, that's exactly what I'm saying:-)  Although banning Alexandro
is, well, perhaps something we can study later on.


wow... you believe that this is the solution!!!

ok.. you have the power in LibO...

Please... Alexandro "and his friends" (in your words) is the major 
contributors in the spanish community.. if don't believe in my words... 
please, search in the archieve of lists, and spanish forum.


Is very simple cut the hands of one contributor... but is very dificult 
find another one... of the same size.


Alexandro isn't the trouble... you know what is?

Best regards.

--
--
Prof. Román H. Gelbort
Piensa Libre - Partner oficial de OpenOffice.org Español
www.piensalibre.com.ar
--


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:47:50 +0100,
Italo Vignoli  a écrit :

> On 3/9/11 4:35 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
> 
> > The point is not to prohibit people to use their own tools. It is to
> > avoid confusion (OOoES is not TDF and I don't see why OOoES should
> > dictate anything to the rest of the Spanish speaking contributors)
> > and also that TDF feels there's a problem with respect to how OOOES
> > is handling its positioning (no, no conflict of interest, but a
> > lack of transparency in how it deals with its contributions to
> > several projects). So while people are free to contribute through
> > various teams, it is also the right of TDF to choose how and with
> > whom it wants to work.
> 
> Charles, we have to act once and for all. Alexandro wants to maintain 
> the power he has been given by the OOo community, and does not want
> us to develop an independent Spanish community. The reality is that
> OOoES represents only Alexandro and his friends, and I do not think
> that we will loose anything by alienating them, while - on the
> contrary - I think that we are losing a huge opportunity with the
> Spanish community if we don't act immediately and ban Alexandro from
> our servers.
> 
> He will never behave in the proper way. We all know him, and the
> damages he has done to the OOo Spanish community (which has never
> been a real community). If we continue to keep the door open we will
> never get a transparent situation, and the outside world will
> continue to think that we are behind Alexandro.
> 

Italo, that's exactly what I'm saying :-) Although banning Alexandro
is, well, perhaps something we can study later on. 

Best,
Charles.



-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Italo Vignoli

On 3/9/11 4:35 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:


The point is not to prohibit people to use their own tools. It is to
avoid confusion (OOoES is not TDF and I don't see why OOoES should
dictate anything to the rest of the Spanish speaking contributors) and
also that TDF feels there's a problem with respect to how OOOES is
handling its positioning (no, no conflict of interest, but a lack of
transparency in how it deals with its contributions to several
projects). So while people are free to contribute through various
teams, it is also the right of TDF to choose how and with whom it wants
to work.


Charles, we have to act once and for all. Alexandro wants to maintain 
the power he has been given by the OOo community, and does not want us 
to develop an independent Spanish community. The reality is that OOoES 
represents only Alexandro and his friends, and I do not think that we 
will loose anything by alienating them, while - on the contrary - I 
think that we are losing a huge opportunity with the Spanish community 
if we don't act immediately and ban Alexandro from our servers.


He will never behave in the proper way. We all know him, and the damages 
he has done to the OOo Spanish community (which has never been a real 
community). If we continue to keep the door open we will never get a 
transparent situation, and the outside world will continue to think that 
we are behind Alexandro.


--
Italo Vignoli
italo.vign...@gmail.com
Mobile +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
Skype: italovignoli

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***


Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Disclaimer

2011-03-09 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello everyone,

Sorry for jumping so late...


Le Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:04:35 +0100,
Italo Vignoli  a écrit :

> On 3/9/11 3:51 PM, Jesús Corrius wrote:
> 
> > If there are no objections in 24 hours, I'll edit the pages to point
> > to the official lists.
> 
> 24 hours have officially gone by now. Jesus, please change the page 
> ASAP. I will draft a media advisory ASAP.
> 

I read that Daniel was told by someone from OOoES that they had
discussed the mailing lists problem with TDF. While it is accurate we
never reached an agreement and it's clear to me we requested them to
use our mailing lists. 

The point is not to prohibit people to use their own tools. It is to
avoid confusion (OOoES is not TDF and I don't see why OOoES should
dictate anything to the rest of the Spanish speaking contributors) and
also that TDF feels there's a problem with respect to how OOOES is
handling its positioning (no, no conflict of interest, but a lack of
transparency in how it deals with its contributions to several
projects). So while people are free to contribute through various
teams, it is also the right of TDF to choose how and with whom it wants
to work.

Sorry Daniel for this inconvenience,

-- 
Charles-H. Schulz
Membre du Comité exécutif
The Document Foundation.

-- 
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org
Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
*** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***