Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On Wednesday, October 27, 2010 23:02:43 Andras Timar wrote: 2010.10.26. 9:06 keltezéssel, Xi Embalsado írta: Can you make the defaults: - White fill in shapes rather than light blue I was thinking of LibreOffice Green instead of Blue 8... What do you think? This is easy to change. This is actually a pretty important interoperability issue. I work with KOffice, and we sometimes receive bug reports saying that KOffice shows the wrong color for X. When investigating it turns out that the color for X is actually undefined and that what the user sees when he looks at the document in OOo is the default color -- the light blue. I think the ODF TC should specify the default values for all the properties of all types of styles. But until that happens, can we please come to an agreement between at least KOffice and LibO? Hopefully one that follows the principle of least astonishment. This would mean blank or white as the default background for shapes, not blue or green or any other color. -Inge -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On 2010-10-24 8:23 AM, RGB ES wrote: Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. Better yet, when used open a prompt to send an OOo or MSO version of the file... -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Am 28.10.2010 09:52, schrieb Sveinn í Felli: Þann fim 28.okt 2010 07:09, skrifaði Valter Mura: In data mercoledì 27 ottobre 2010 21:41:20, Marc Paré ha scritto: Anyway, I think also that a request of registration during installation is acceptable. You can add, optionally, some check boxes to activate for mailing list subscriptions, eg. user, discuss, announce, and so on, so that the user who subscribe can receive info and news. This could be an idea, also. +1 Maybe such a popup, asking whether one would like to register and/or send usage data, should be activated a bit later than right after installation ? First time users may think it's a bit bullying/alienating having this coming up right after installation. If this pops up after some days or a certain number of launches, then the users have become a bit accustomed to the software and may thus be a bit less overwhelmed by this additional information. +1 regards, Erich -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-29 15:45, Charles Marcus a écrit : On 2010-10-24 8:23 AM, RGB ES wrote: Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. Better yet, when used open a prompt to send an OOo or MSO version of the file... It already does this as you pick which format to send. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
In data mercoledì 27 ottobre 2010 21:41:20, Marc Paré ha scritto: I don't think I would favour this. There is too much potential for gathering data from users and we could really run in trouble if criticism were to spread that we are data mining our LibO users. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Ubuntu can gather data form its package manager, if the user enables it. The point is how much the user is aware of the process and how much transparent the process is. If you warn the user and he/she accepts to enable the gathering, I think there will be no problems. Behind the data collection, limited to name, organization, e-mail, country, and OS and language used, there should be *always* the acceptance and the decision of the user. Anyway, I think also that a request of registration during installation is acceptable. You can add, optionally, some check boxes to activate for mailing list subscriptions, eg. user, discuss, announce, and so on, so that the user who subscribe can receive info and news. This could be an idea, also. Ciao -- Valter Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Þann fim 28.okt 2010 07:09, skrifaði Valter Mura: In data mercoledì 27 ottobre 2010 21:41:20, Marc Paré ha scritto: I don't think I would favour this. There is too much potential for gathering data from users and we could really run in trouble if criticism were to spread that we are data mining our LibO users. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Ubuntu can gather data form its package manager, if the user enables it. KDE has an automatic usage survey/bugreporting in the case of a crash, you have to install some kernel headers for it to be of any real help though. The point is how much the user is aware of the process and how much transparent the process is. If you warn the user and he/she accepts to enable the gathering, I think there will be no problems. Behind the data collection, limited to name, organization, e-mail, country, and OS and language used, there should be *always* the acceptance and the decision of the user. Maybe more users would participate if such a proposition was anonymous (an occasional popup asking whether some usage data might be sent to the devs); region, locale, OS, software version and usage stats should suffice. If worded adequately, people should feel they're offering help for further development for the benefit of all users. Anyway, I think also that a request of registration during installation is acceptable. You can add, optionally, some check boxes to activate for mailing list subscriptions, eg. user, discuss, announce, and so on, so that the user who subscribe can receive info and news. This could be an idea, also. +1 Maybe such a popup, asking whether one would like to register and/or send usage data, should be activated a bit later than right after installation ? First time users may think it's a bit bullying/alienating having this coming up right after installation. If this pops up after some days or a certain number of launches, then the users have become a bit accustomed to the software and may thus be a bit less overwhelmed by this additional information. Just a hunch. regards, Sveinn í Felli -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 22:55, Damien Ellis a écrit : On 10/24/10, RGB ESrgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. I think that a massive improvement would be keeping the button, but by default sending documents as PDF. If you are 'emailing' a document, then I would assume that you do not want them to edit it, unless specified otherwise. Because in business environments, I see people sending around things like contracts/official letters in .doc files, and if LibreOffice were smart enough to send out documents as a multi-platform, read-only document, then we could tout that as a 'corporate feature' (document security is big, yknow), whilst still providing a useful feature that people could use in real life. And you could even keep a menu option to attach as ODT or DOC for those who require it. Just my 2c. - Damien Ellis Hi Damien: I use it quite a bit and I email often for editing purposes to a group of academics. I can also tell you that the university professors that I know who use OpenOffice use it to mail back and forth to their grad students. It is an great tool. We should be pushing the ODF formats as much as possible, especially in N. America so that sending an ODF file is also a viable choice. We should not compromise our values of promoting these file formats. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Hi, AFAIR the translation work if the name of color matches with the translation. So already translated names should works. Regarding to color palette, for same reason we should save the old palette after the new palette. KAMI 2010-10-28 07:20 keltezéssel, Andras Timar írta: 2010.10.28. 5:47 keltezéssel, jonathon írta: On 10/27/2010 09:02 PM, Andras Timar wrote: Unfortunately changing the standard palette has significant impact on code and localizations, How so? From where I'm sitting, it looks like a simple change of standard.soc. Alternatively, throw in another palette expanded.soc. I'm not (yet) familiar with this part of the code but it seems to me that colors of standard.soc are hardwired in the code as well (http://opengrok.go-oo.org/xref/libs-core/svx/source/xoutdev/xtabcolr.cxx). The color names can be localized, but if we change the default colors, the translations should also change. Andras -- KAMI911Best regards, Kálmán „KAMI” Szalai | 神 | kami911 [at] gmail [dot] com My favorite projects: OxygenOffice Professional http://ooop.sf.net/ - office suite - for everybody | Magyarul http://hun.sf.net/ - In Hungarian Blog http://bit.ly/10ucTR | Support http://bit.ly/eYZO6 Follow me http://bit.ly/gJuJZ, if you can http://bit.ly/kDocB -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Hi Sveinn! Am Donnerstag, den 28.10.2010, 07:52 + schrieb Sveinn í Felli: Anyway, I think also that a request of registration during installation [...] +1 Maybe such a popup, asking whether one would like to register and/or send usage data, should be activated a bit later than right after installation ? First time users may think it's a bit bullying/alienating having this coming up right after installation. If this pops up after some days or a certain number of launches, then the users have become a bit accustomed to the software and may thus be a bit less overwhelmed by this additional information. Just a hunch. This is like it is handled today in OpenOffice.org. Unfortunately, there is no connection between registration dialog and OOo Improvement Program dialog. So two separate dialogs appear :-\ http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/OpenOffice.org_User_Feedback_Program#Query_Dialog Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
RE: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Love it. I'll put my own background to it... -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:52:20 +0200, leif leiflod...@gmail.com wrote: Many large installations are very irritated about the registration screen. The DisableFirstStartWisard solves some of the problem *but* its version dependant. IMHO we should remove the *registration* completely. We are not after marketing addresses and I don't see a benefit in LibO requiring (or even inviting) users to register. Sebastian -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 06:21, Sebastian Spaeth a écrit : On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 19:52:20 +0200, leifleiflod...@gmail.com wrote: Many large installations are very irritated about the registration screen. The DisableFirstStartWisard solves some of the problem *but* its version dependant. IMHO we should remove the *registration* completely. We are not after marketing addresses and I don't see a benefit in LibO requiring (or even inviting) users to register. Sebastian From a marketing point of view, not knowing how or from where people are using LibO is working in the dark. LibO is such an essential piece of software, we need to know at the very least where it is being used. With these statistics, we would be better equipped to target sectors where there is little use or sectors where we could improve the suite to better serve groups. In my view, the registrations process for LibO is quite an important tool. It should and should always be left up to the individual's discretion to register. I also agree, we should work on a better way to implement it in large installations. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:10:24 -0400, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com wrote: In my view, the registrations process for LibO is quite an important tool. Too late, I asked and it is already gone :). I realize the power of statistics, but it is annoying and very uncommon at least for Linux applications to see a registration screen. We Linux users even balk when we have to click on ACCEPT EULA before using an (open source) app :-). Sebastian -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 09:30, Sebastian Spaeth a écrit : On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:10:24 -0400, Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: In my view, the registrations process for LibO is quite an important tool. Too late, I asked and it is already gone :). I realize the power of statistics, but it is annoying and very uncommon at least for Linux applications to see a registration screen. We Linux users even balk when we have to click on ACCEPT EULA before using an (open source) app :-). Sebastian When you say the registration page is gone, do you mean that your request has been put in or that the actual registration page is no longer part of the process? Has this been discussed by the membership and endorsed by the SC? I for one do not have problems with EULA as they represent the author's wishes. I am also a Linux user. So, you cannot speak for me as a linux user. You may say then, some of the linux users but please do not say linus users. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 09:10, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2010-10-27 06:21, Sebastian Spaeth a écrit : IMHO we should remove the *registration* completely. We are not after marketing addresses and I don't see a benefit in LibO requiring (or even inviting) users to register. Sebastian From a marketing point of view, not knowing how or from where people are using LibO is working in the dark. LibO is such an essential piece of software, we need to know at the very least where it is being used. ... I am happy to see it gone. I know it is nice to know who uses the software, but statistics collected that way are skewed because large corporations do a silent install and many people (most?) click on don't register. And amongst people who download LibreOffice, we do not know who really uses it and who downloaded it to give it a 2-minute trial. In other words, statistics are useless. On the other hand, the help menu could be improved to add links to one or more of the following: – help forums – User guides (essentially the page that has the current LibO user guides) – Open Document Foundation page. – Maybe a feedback page? -- Michel Gagnon Montréal (Québec, Canada) -- http://mgagnon.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Somebody wrote: Default colours should be vibrant colours, not half-dead ones. Can I use that as my excuse for creating my own custom palettes? Well other than my standard custom custom palette is very heavy on pastels. More importantly, I like an easy selection of custom colours. What could be easier than editing default.soc with gedit, or notepad? jonathon -- No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address. It all gets forwarded to /dev/null -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On 27/10/10 17:40, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2010-10-27 12:32, AG a écrit : Considering Marc's perspective, I think that it is fine to have a sense of who the user-base is, where they are from (regional, not specific granularity!!), the purpose for which they use the software (home/ work/ SOHO), and what component they use/ like the most ( why - i.e. feedback). The focus is on the software, the use and the context of its usage, and could be a user opt-in. Is it feasible to adopt something akin to the Debian popularity contest and apply that to the LibO installation process?[1] Cheers AG [1] e.g.: http://popcon.debian.org/ and http://lwn.net/Articles/75753/ Hi AG. Could you give an example? Marc Marc I had in mind some kind of sub-routine that, with the user's sign in, would use system data (language preference, locality) along with LibO data (which components are used and relative frequency) and periodically send this data in an anonymised (scrubbed) manner to the LibO team for statistical analysis. The process would have to be transparent, open to user scrutiny and something that they select to do as a contribution to the overall project development, much in the way that SETI would use spare cycles to crunch numbers and send off, in a similar way LibO could request that users sign up to send preference stats. I'm no programmer so probably am not using the appropriate jargon, so I hope this clumsy description outlines the idea. The advantages are: the user doesn't have to register nor do anything aside from tick a box during LibO installation and second, it does lay the ground for promoting LibO as a community-led concept that has a built in means of recruiting and then using user feedback. The latter available through selection - like a continuum of data to send back to LibO including explicit feedback opportunities and joining a community to pool experience and expertise. Something like that, anyway. AG -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 15:30, AG a écrit : Marc I had in mind some kind of sub-routine that, with the user's sign in, would use system data (language preference, locality) along with LibO data (which components are used and relative frequency) and periodically send this data in an anonymised (scrubbed) manner to the LibO team for statistical analysis. The process would have to be transparent, open to user scrutiny and something that they select to do as a contribution to the overall project development, much in the way that SETI would use spare cycles to crunch numbers and send off, in a similar way LibO could request that users sign up to send preference stats. I'm no programmer so probably am not using the appropriate jargon, so I hope this clumsy description outlines the idea. The advantages are: the user doesn't have to register nor do anything aside from tick a box during LibO installation and second, it does lay the ground for promoting LibO as a community-led concept that has a built in means of recruiting and then using user feedback. The latter available through selection - like a continuum of data to send back to LibO including explicit feedback opportunities and joining a community to pool experience and expertise. Something like that, anyway. AG I don't think I would favour this. There is too much potential for gathering data from users and we could really run in trouble if criticism were to spread that we are data mining our LibO users. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
I think they check which packages are currently in use (if you install one via Ubuntu's package manager you even see a star rating, I don't know if that's the same, though). 2010/10/27 Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com: Le 2010-10-27 15:30, AG a écrit : Marc I had in mind some kind of sub-routine that, with the user's sign in, would use system data (language preference, locality) along with LibO data (which components are used and relative frequency) and periodically send this data in an anonymised (scrubbed) manner to the LibO team for statistical analysis. The process would have to be transparent, open to user scrutiny and something that they select to do as a contribution to the overall project development, much in the way that SETI would use spare cycles to crunch numbers and send off, in a similar way LibO could request that users sign up to send preference stats. I'm no programmer so probably am not using the appropriate jargon, so I hope this clumsy description outlines the idea. The advantages are: the user doesn't have to register nor do anything aside from tick a box during LibO installation and second, it does lay the ground for promoting LibO as a community-led concept that has a built in means of recruiting and then using user feedback. The latter available through selection - like a continuum of data to send back to LibO including explicit feedback opportunities and joining a community to pool experience and expertise. Something like that, anyway. AG I don't think I would favour this. There is too much potential for gathering data from users and we could really run in trouble if criticism were to spread that we are data mining our LibO users. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On 27/10/10 20:41, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2010-10-27 15:30, AG a écrit : Marc I had in mind some kind of sub-routine that, with the user's sign in, would use system data (language preference, locality) along with LibO data (which components are used and relative frequency) and periodically send this data in an anonymised (scrubbed) manner to the LibO team for statistical analysis. The process would have to be transparent, open to user scrutiny and something that they select to do as a contribution to the overall project development, much in the way that SETI would use spare cycles to crunch numbers and send off, in a similar way LibO could request that users sign up to send preference stats. I'm no programmer so probably am not using the appropriate jargon, so I hope this clumsy description outlines the idea. The advantages are: the user doesn't have to register nor do anything aside from tick a box during LibO installation and second, it does lay the ground for promoting LibO as a community-led concept that has a built in means of recruiting and then using user feedback. The latter available through selection - like a continuum of data to send back to LibO including explicit feedback opportunities and joining a community to pool experience and expertise. Something like that, anyway. AG I don't think I would favour this. There is too much potential for gathering data from users and we could really run in trouble if criticism were to spread that we are data mining our LibO users. Well, that's why it is all open and above board, the code is open, the fields are explicitly defined, clear data specifications, and the system mails out to LibO (cc the user) the reports. It isn't data mining: it is voluntary, the default option is no, it can be stopped at any time, it is participatory to the levels of detail the user is okay with, it invites open transparent scrutiny, and posts the user a copy of the report being sent. Moreover, it wouldn't affect the installation of LibO - it is a voluntary participation in research and users can opt in if they want, and if not, then fine. I'm not defending the idea, nor am I saying that this is what popularity contest does. I was asking after how feasible a basic approach like that would be for LibO community's purposes. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Marc Here's the scoop on the popularity contest itself, launched early 2004: The Debian popularity-contest is a concept created by Avery Pennarun a few years ago. It set up a program on the hosts installing the popularity-contest package, to email the list of packages installed and in use to a central collection point. It also collect the host architecture and we plan to collect kernel version and modules used as well. The summaries are presented on URL:http://popcon.debian.org/ and used to sort the packages on the Debian CDs. The information can be used in other areas as well. It can detect which packages in the debian archive which aren't installed on any hosts. Such packages should probably be checked out and possibly be removed from the archive. It has already been used to check which non-free packages are actually in use, while discussing the future for non-free. http://lwn.net/Articles/75753/ AG -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-27 17:30, AG a écrit : Well, that's why it is all open and above board, the code is open, the fields are explicitly defined, clear data specifications, and the system mails out to LibO (cc the user) the reports. It isn't data mining: it is voluntary, the default option is no, it can be stopped at any time, it is participatory to the levels of detail the user is okay with, it invites open transparent scrutiny, and posts the user a copy of the report being sent. Moreover, it wouldn't affect the installation of LibO - it is a voluntary participation in research and users can opt in if they want, and if not, then fine. This sounds reasonable to me. I would prefer it if it were just a one time only thing. I don' think that there would be a need for a continuous feed of information from the users. I imagine the marketing team would have to take a hard look at this. I'll leave a copy of this on the marketing mailist. I'm not defending the idea, nor am I saying that this is what popularity contest does. I was asking after how feasible a basic approach like that would be for LibO community's purposes. Hi AG, thanks for the info. Don't worry, I always consider these threads as discussions and I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing you and I apologize if it sounded this way. Is there anything like that on the debian project? Marc Here's the scoop on the popularity contest itself, launched early 2004: The Debian popularity-contest is a concept created by Avery Pennarun a few years ago. It set up a program on the hosts installing the popularity-contest package, to email the list of packages installed and in use to a central collection point. It also collect the host architecture and we plan to collect kernel version and modules used as well. The summaries are presented on URL:http://popcon.debian.org/ and used to sort the packages on the Debian CDs. The information can be used in other areas as well. It can detect which packages in the debian archive which aren't installed on any hosts. Such packages should probably be checked out and possibly be removed from the archive. It has already been used to check which non-free packages are actually in use, while discussing the future for non-free. http://lwn.net/Articles/75753/ AG Thanks. Always nice to know how some other distros are getting their information. Marc -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On 10/24/10, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. I think that a massive improvement would be keeping the button, but by default sending documents as PDF. If you are 'emailing' a document, then I would assume that you do not want them to edit it, unless specified otherwise. Because in business environments, I see people sending around things like contracts/official letters in .doc files, and if LibreOffice were smart enough to send out documents as a multi-platform, read-only document, then we could tout that as a 'corporate feature' (document security is big, yknow), whilst still providing a useful feature that people could use in real life. And you could even keep a menu option to attach as ODT or DOC for those who require it. Just my 2c. - Damien Ellis -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
2010.10.28. 5:47 keltezéssel, jonathon írta: On 10/27/2010 09:02 PM, Andras Timar wrote: Unfortunately changing the standard palette has significant impact on code and localizations, How so? From where I'm sitting, it looks like a simple change of standard.soc. Alternatively, throw in another palette expanded.soc. I'm not (yet) familiar with this part of the code but it seems to me that colors of standard.soc are hardwired in the code as well (http://opengrok.go-oo.org/xref/libs-core/svx/source/xoutdev/xtabcolr.cxx). The color names can be localized, but if we change the default colors, the translations should also change. Andras -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
RE: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Can you make the defaults: - 1 inch margin around the document rather than .79 - Smoother dragging buttons for shapes and images - White fill in shapes rather than light blue - Can you change the color palette to a more streamlined set of colors. (Like GoogleDocs and MSO)? -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
In data martedì 26 ottobre 2010 03:10:59, Marc Paré ha scritto: Le 2010-10-25 13:37, Roman Gelbort a écrit : El 25/10/10 04:38, Marc Paré escribió: I would suggest this as an extension and people could devise all sort of permutations of menus imaginable. That way, a user could pick from a list that is more personal to them. How about a menu theme for Mad Author or Crazy Academic? LOL I agree with this idea!!! :-) Thanks. I was actually thinking, after the marketing meeting this afternoon, that if we could also implement the same feature as the Firefox personas, then it would really make it cool for everyone all round. Good idea, why not? Ideal implementation for young users (that's to say, the future...) +1 -- Valter Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On 25/10/10 18:37, Roman Gelbort wrote: El 25/10/10 04:38, Marc Paré escribió: I would suggest this as an extension and people could devise all sort of permutations of menus imaginable. That way, a user could pick from a list that is more personal to them. How about a menu theme for Mad Author or Crazy Academic? LOL I agree with this idea!!! :-) +1 :-) -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to the lists are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-26 10:09, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2010-10-26 09:17, Michel Gagnon a écrit : Other comments: - Hard spaces should be displayed -- or not -- according to the setting made with show hidden characters. Actually, I was pointed to this site yesterday. See if this is what you are trying to achieve. You can change the background colours etc. http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page=ooo_background Marc Marc, I am aware that I can change background colours. However, it is a multi-step process that doesn't work on the fly. By contrast, paragraph marks, tab marks and other hidden characters can be displayed or hidden all together with the toggle commandand Show non-printable characters (control-F10). I would like those background colours to disappear when non-printable characters are hidden, and to reappear when they are displayed. Regards, -- Michel Gagnon Montréal (Québec, Canada) -- http://mgagnon.net -- Unsubscribe information: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:23:13 +0200, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: There are discussions on this list about UI redesign. Even if this is a good goal on the mid/long term, there are lots of things that can be done *immediately* to build a better user experience: change default toolbars and buttons. Yes please! :). There are many more of these examples and proposals could be collected on a wiki page. Obviously not everyone is going to agree, but perhaps we can remove/modify 4-5 Buttons without much controvery. Sebastian -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
El 25/10/10 04:38, Marc Paré escribió: I would suggest this as an extension and people could devise all sort of permutations of menus imaginable. That way, a user could pick from a list that is more personal to them. How about a menu theme for Mad Author or Crazy Academic? LOL I agree with this idea!!! :-) -- ~~~ Prof. Román H. Gelbort http://www.piensalibre.com.ar Por 10 años con una oficina Open... desde ahora también LIBRE ~~~ -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-25 13:37, Roman Gelbort a écrit : El 25/10/10 04:38, Marc Paré escribió: I would suggest this as an extension and people could devise all sort of permutations of menus imaginable. That way, a user could pick from a list that is more personal to them. How about a menu theme for Mad Author or Crazy Academic? LOL I agree with this idea!!! :-) Thanks. I was actually thinking, after the marketing meeting this afternoon, that if we could also implement the same feature as the Firefox personas, then it would really make it cool for everyone all round. Marc -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
implement the same feature as the Firefox personas Yes Please! -Original Message- From: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 6:40 am Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults Le 2010-10-25 13:37, Roman Gelbort a écrit : El 25/10/10 04:38, Marc Paré escribió: I would suggest this as an extension and people could devise all sort of permutations of menus imaginable. That way, a user could pick from a list that is more personal to them. How about a menu theme for Mad Author or Crazy Academic? LOL I agree with this idea!!! :-) Thanks. I was actually thinking, after the marketing meeting this afternoon, that if we could also implement the same feature as the Firefox personas, then it would really make it cool for everyone all round. Marc -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Better defaults
There are discussions on this list about UI redesign. Even if this is a good goal on the mid/long term, there are lots of things that can be done *immediately* to build a better user experience: change default toolbars and buttons. For example, LibO have enabled by default the nice Find toolbar, but the Search and replace button remained on the old location that WAS right when this new toolbar did not exist: I think it would be better to hide that button from where it is now and show it on the new toolbar. Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. Complex layout language support is disabled by default, but we have a right to left button on the toolbar. Contextual toolbars is a nice feature, but many people hate it because these toolbars appears in front of their documents, floating on non useful positions. The first thing I always do when installing a new OOo/LibO version is to anchor those toolbars to the botom of the window. ... And a long etcetera. What do you think? -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-24 11:40, Marc Paré a écrit : Le 2010-10-24 08:23, RGB ES a écrit : Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. I always remove it, but that's basically because I tend to work in two steps. 1. Write the document and save it 2. Write an e-mail and attach the document. I don't think this would be a good idea. I actually use it extensively, I know of at least dozens of my clients, professionals and amateurs, who use it. Strategically, this would also be the wrong this to do as we are trying to encourage the use of the OASIS opendoc formats. Why would we then sheepishly hide the button that we advocate? There is also a Send .doc button that people may use. I usually tell people to use the send .doc and inform the recipients that there is an opendoc format that will prevent their files from ever being incompatible from MSO. I also encourage them to tell everyone else. We can then all advocate the opendoc formats. It depends who your clients are. Mine are either computer-illiterate or work for companies where some other guy (usually and outside IT resource) has set up their computer and locked it. So I get the phone call that they can't do anything with the document. Contextual toolbars is a nice feature, but many people hate it because these toolbars appears in front of their documents, floating on non useful positions. The first thing I always do when installing a new OOo/LibO version is to anchor those toolbars to the botom of the window. I agree with this, they should not be floating. Isn't there a setting for this? Maybe the original setting should be a bottom anchor. Marc You can get the contextual toolbars non-floating at the bottom by moving them manually the first time they appear. Better to have it done by default, however. With regard to buttons, I would suggest less white space in/around icons. The way the graphics are sized, we could shave 2 to 4 pixels in width and height and make those toolbars more compact, yet keep graphics the same size. -- Michel Gagnon Montréal (Québec, Canada) -- http://mgagnon.net -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Le 2010-10-24 22:09, Roman Gelbort a écrit : El 24/10/10 12:40, Marc Paré escribió: Another example: do you know anyone that use the send by email button? Most possible receivers nowadays still use msoffice so using that button have the only effect that new users come to forums asking why the people to whom they sent the file is not able to open it. I think it is better to completely hide that button. I don't think this would be a good idea. I actually use it extensively, I know of at least dozens of my clients, professionals and amateurs, who use it. Strategically, this would also be the wrong this to do as we are trying to encourage the use of the OASIS opendoc formats. Why would we then sheepishly hide the button that we advocate? There is also a Send .doc button that people may use. I usually tell people to use the send .doc and inform the recipients that there is an opendoc format that will prevent their files from ever being incompatible from MSO. I also encourage them to tell everyone else. We can then all advocate the opendoc formats. I would not change this. This is changing the roots of the existence of the LibO. We can do better than this and not give up. Let's all advocate, we are 300 million users, aren't we? I think that exist a mid point... IMHO. If this button has a menu button (like paste button). This would be the best solution. Could continue advocating the ODF format and make a better functionality for many users. Thanks for the answers. I am always leery of choices that have to deal with the opendocument formats. We advocate using the formats as a philosophical and practical rule for our distro. We should be careful to remove anything in the Save; Save as, import; export etc... or any other functions which may diminish our 1st choice of format which is the OASIS opendocument format. We are still, after all, with 300 million downloads (and most likely more if you count any other opendocument format-centre suite), a big influential group and we should be able to trumpet the opendocument to everyone. We should be able to market it as a definite solid format for everyone and a format that has a clear advantage over the MS formats, in that the OASIS opendocument formats will always be readable and not obsolescent unlike the MS formats. Marc -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
