Re: RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
On 12/16/2010 3:18 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Johannes, Barbara, Did you have a look at our community bylaws? Most of your points are addressed there. Best, Charles. Sorry, no -- guess I'd better shut up until I have! :-) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
On 12/16/2010 2:40 PM, Johannes A. Bodwing wrote: Hello, On 12/16/2010 3:45 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. +1 Very well said, IMO. A good manager serves the community. A manager is not a commander. Being a good manager is a time-consuming task. It involves knowing what is going on, understanding the 'how-to's' of many community members, and finding a balance between letting flow, and linking actively, proposing, intervening etc. I am sure our bye-laws provide us with some officers, of which I expect one to do this job. Regards, Cor I agree -- and to avoid the negative implications of "manager" how about calling this valuable person the Community Coordinator? What's the construction we talk about? If we install someone like a community coordinator, than the term says he/she coordinates the community. What than does TDF or the steering committee? I think Benjamin covered this coordination role well. I see the SC (which I think is part of TDF) as a policy setting group, not a day-to-day operations one. Their mission is to evolve the OpenOffice.org-Community into a new open ... and so on. I think we have not enough clearness about the things TDF/LO consists of. There is in a rough form: a Community - a Product (LO) the Community is build of developers, users, sponsors, contributors and so on the Product is at the moment the sequel of OOo; later on it could be additional software too in the kind of open-source the Community as a whole works to offer the software to the public. and that all should "work" with a global dimension as well as with national or local basis. I propose to think it from the core. And that is at the moment: We construct an organisation (TDF) to develop and contribute a software-product (LO). Or a little bit harder: We build a kind of MS in an open and non-profit-oriented form ;-) Not MS (with OS, office suite, etc.) -- MS Office Pro is closest, but not directly comparable. Than the elementary question is: How has a structure to be to fulfill our goals in the best way it could be done? Also this structure has to include the "tools" to reach as many people as possible (for development, testing, marketing, sponsoring and so on). With this aspects we have to proof the current form of TDF, trim it to a better level, proof the goals, check the construction, trim it and so on. For that we need an adequate exchange of information. For example the best configuration of mailing-lists, collaborative working, and others more. Because nearly all of this has a global basis and a national one, regional or local, the relevant information has finally to spread to every member of the community. Also every (good) idea of a member has to reach the national or global basis. Very true! And now another important question: Should we begin right now - or should we wait till the final release of LO? Because many people are in the preparation of this release. Otherwise the clock is ticking and some people dont develop, test and so on. They could work on a (rough) sketch of the fundamental aspects of the TDF-structure, to bring it forward as fast as possible. We'll definitely have to have a fairly well-defined support plan as soon as LibO is generally released. This will have to take account of the transition to Drupal, too, since many of the operations will apparently change significantly between Silverstripe and Drupal -- especially in terms of direct user support capabilities. We don't want to confuse everybody, but the currently available support mechanisms (mailing lists and documentation in particular) are different both from OOo and from the future plans. At last back to the "Community Coordinator". This function we have install on the best position inside the best construction of TDF we could make. Eventually in the beginning like a joker without a determined position. I think this is a product-focused position (LibO) and not an org
Re: RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi Charles-H. Schulz: Johannes, Barbara, Did you have a look at our community bylaws? Most of your points are addressed there. Something is not really clear, others is not mentioned, anything is missing. For example: not really clear to me: the englisch bylaws contains under "Foundation": "Part of its role is to accept donations; however, it is not the Foundation's role per se to accept or approve membership applications to become Community Members, which are managed by the Membership Committee (refer to Membership Application Process)." at the german translation it is in the kind of: "its role is only to administrate the donations". Do I understand it right, that the Foundation only is for managing the money people give to TDF? not mentioned (in my opinion): How is the important part/role of community defined? What kind of community does TDF mean when it speaks of it? Or is it not important to know what community we mean? How can we decide wether a community is such a thing in the kind we want it or not? missing: We have to think this project in the dimension it really is: global - with national and local groups. Where is this aspect to find? And the kind of information or informational structure that is needed to manage this challenge. Because the goals and/or values of TDF have to spread worldwide. By the way: I have now nearly a dozen favorites in firefox just to find out what TDF/LO is/means or will be. Why not set a hyperlink for interested people on the home-site of www.documentfoundation.org in the kind of: - Understand TDF - And than lead interested people to a abstract of the manifesto and the important contents of the bylaws. Because there are fundamental aspects if we want to reach and motivate as many people as possible: Unterstanding what TDF is and does and for what purpose. We have to guide people to the idea of open software and eventually an open society. We don't have to kick them on an odyssee through sites and blogs and texts. I'm looking forward to get more clarity, Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Johannes, Barbara, Did you have a look at our community bylaws? Most of your points are addressed there. Best, Charles. Le 16 déc. 2010, 9:41 PM, "Johannes A. Bodwing" a écrit : Hello, > > On 12/16/2010 3:45 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: >> >> Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) >> >>> I ag... What's the construction we talk about? If we install someone like a community coordinator, than the term says he/she coordinates the community. What than does TDF or the steering committee? Their mission is to evolve the OpenOffice.org-Community into a new open ... and so on. I think we have not enough clearness about the things TDF/LO consists of. There is in a rough form: a Community - a Product (LO) the Community is build of developers, users, sponsors, contributors and so on the Product is at the moment the sequel of OOo; later on it could be additional software too in the kind of open-source the Community as a whole works to offer the software to the public. and that all should "work" with a global dimension as well as with national or local basis. I propose to think it from the core. And that is at the moment: We construct an organisation (TDF) to develop and contribute a software-product (LO). Or a little bit harder: We build a kind of MS in an open and non-profit-oriented form ;-) Than the elementary question is: How has a structure to be to fulfill our goals in the best way it could be done? Also this structure has to include the "tools" to reach as many people as possible (for development, testing, marketing, sponsoring and so on). With this aspects we have to proof the current form of TDF, trim it to a better level, proof the goals, check the construction, trim it and so on. For that we need an adequate exchange of information. For example the best configuration of mailing-lists, collaborative working, and others more. Because nearly all of this has a global basis and a national one, regional or local, the relevant information has finally to spread to every member of the community. Also every (good) idea of a member has to reach the national or global basis. And now another important question: Should we begin right now - or should we wait till the final release of LO? Because many people are in the preparation of this release. Otherwise the clock is ticking and some people dont develop, test and so on. They could work on a (rough) sketch of the fundamental aspects of the TDF-structure, to bring it forward as fast as possible. At last back to the "Community Coordinator". This function we have install on the best position inside the best construction of TDF we could make. Eventually in the beginning like a joker without a determined position. Regards, Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgArchive: http://www.d... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hello, On 12/16/2010 3:45 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. +1 Very well said, IMO. A good manager serves the community. A manager is not a commander. Being a good manager is a time-consuming task. It involves knowing what is going on, understanding the 'how-to's' of many community members, and finding a balance between letting flow, and linking actively, proposing, intervening etc. I am sure our bye-laws provide us with some officers, of which I expect one to do this job. Regards, Cor I agree -- and to avoid the negative implications of "manager" how about calling this valuable person the Community Coordinator? What's the construction we talk about? If we install someone like a community coordinator, than the term says he/she coordinates the community. What than does TDF or the steering committee? Their mission is to evolve the OpenOffice.org-Community into a new open ... and so on. I think we have not enough clearness about the things TDF/LO consists of. There is in a rough form: a Community - a Product (LO) the Community is build of developers, users, sponsors, contributors and so on the Product is at the moment the sequel of OOo; later on it could be additional software too in the kind of open-source the Community as a whole works to offer the software to the public. and that all should "work" with a global dimension as well as with national or local basis. I propose to think it from the core. And that is at the moment: We construct an organisation (TDF) to develop and contribute a software-product (LO). Or a little bit harder: We build a kind of MS in an open and non-profit-oriented form ;-) Than the elementary question is: How has a structure to be to fulfill our goals in the best way it could be done? Also this structure has to include the "tools" to reach as many people as possible (for development, testing, marketing, sponsoring and so on). With this aspects we have to proof the current form of TDF, trim it to a better level, proof the goals, check the construction, trim it and so on. For that we need an adequate exchange of information. For example the best configuration of mailing-lists, collaborative working, and others more. Because nearly all of this has a global basis and a national one, regional or local, the relevant information has finally to spread to every member of the community. Also every (good) idea of a member has to reach the national or global basis. And now another important question: Should we begin right now - or should we wait till the final release of LO? Because many people are in the preparation of this release. Otherwise the clock is ticking and some people dont develop, test and so on. They could work on a (rough) sketch of the fundamental aspects of the TDF-structure, to bring it forward as fast as possible. At last back to the "Community Coordinator". This function we have install on the best position inside the best construction of TDF we could make. Eventually in the beginning like a joker without a determined position. Regards, Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
On 12/16/2010 3:45 AM, Cor Nouws wrote: Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. +1 Very well said, IMO. A good manager serves the community. A manager is not a commander. Being a good manager is a time-consuming task. It involves knowing what is going on, understanding the 'how-to's' of many community members, and finding a balance between letting flow, and linking actively, proposing, intervening etc. I am sure our bye-laws provide us with some officers, of which I expect one to do this job. Regards, Cor I agree -- and to avoid the negative implications of "manager" how about calling this valuable person the Community Coordinator? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi, Le Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:45:29 +0100, Cor Nouws a écrit : > Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) > > > I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the > > term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You > > could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" > > if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to > > the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar > > interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. > > > > In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to > > make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive > > encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also > > play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important > > initiatives that don't have enough helpers. > > > > I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and > > to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, > > but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the > > community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's > > culture certainly makes sense. > > +1 > Very well said, IMO. > A good manager serves the community. A manager is not a commander. > Being a good manager is a time-consuming task. It involves knowing > what is going on, understanding the 'how-to's' of many community > members, and finding a balance between letting flow, and linking > actively, proposing, intervening etc. > I am sure our bye-laws provide us with some officers, of which I > expect one to do this job. Yes, that would be the Executive Director. But it cannot be its only role. He/she can facilitate, help out, provide leadership in case it's needed, but he's neither the mummy, nor the commander of the powers that be in front of the community. It also means that the culture of our community -again let me insist on that- has to change. We should be doing things, and contributing is how we're recognized. Playing by the rule is one thing, but on the other hand asking for permission to some overlord is not what we're doing and won't be doing. Hence, from a posture of audience -in spite of all the good will- we need to switch to a posture of contribution. Don't get me wrong, that's pretty much what we are doing, so I'm cautiously optimistic :-) Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Benjamin Horst wrote (14-12-10 16:21) I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. +1 Very well said, IMO. A good manager serves the community. A manager is not a commander. Being a good manager is a time-consuming task. It involves knowing what is going on, understanding the 'how-to's' of many community members, and finding a balance between letting flow, and linking actively, proposing, intervening etc. I am sure our bye-laws provide us with some officers, of which I expect one to do this job. Regards, Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi Charles, On Dec 14, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > I will download the book. This being said I'd like to share some thoughts > about the notion of Community Management. Going out of OpenOffice.org > community, I'm not the only one who feels an intense need for a community > that seizes its own destiny and fulfills it. What this means, beyond the > nice words, is that I will not be -will never be - a community manager and > don't wish one for our community. I don't really like the notion of managing > a community in the context of FOSS. you can certainly > organize a community but I believe that it's important that > contributors see their contributions valued and that they feel a sense of > ownership. Beyond that point, proper governance make the sauce. What's > important is to have a community of contributors that behave in an adult > way; and community management include the notion of "management", or rather, > the notion of management from the outside. I don't like that. Inside OOo, if > you remember, we had several layers of community management. We know how it > ended. I agree with you about the possible negative connotations of the term "manager," but I think it's just a terminology problem. You could think of the role as "Community Facilitator" or even "host" if you prefer. The actual tasks inherent to the role are similar to the host of a party--introducing people to others with similar interests, helping to coordinate times, places and necessities, etc. In practice, it's hugely helpful to have someone walking around to make sure that good ideas don't get lost and plans receive encouragement and assistance until they are completed. They can also play the role of matchmaker, to help find volunteers for important initiatives that don't have enough helpers. I also understand the desire to form a clean break from the past and to build our own thing this time. I think it's the right approach, but I don't think it means we can eliminate the role of the community manager, though renaming it to better suit our project's culture certainly makes sense. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi everyone, 2010/12/14 Sigrid Carrera > Hi Johannes, > > > 2010/12/14 Johannes A. Bodwing : > > Hello Benjamin, > >> > >> ... > > > >> ... > >> Jono has written a book called "The Art of Community," which describes > his > >> approach. It's available to purchase or download under a CC license from > his > >> site: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ > > I've downloaded the book and started reading. It is a pleasant read. > > [...] > > > That's a good thing. And if he helps us - OK. > > On the other side: We need just our brain to find the right solutions. > > We have goals. That leads to: What is to do, to make this goals real, in > a > > global dimension? > > We build a worldwide community. - That leads to: How can it realy work > with > > good results? > > And basically: What is to do, to find an optimal structure for all of > this? > > And so on. > > > > We need a kind of selforganizing structure that leads to what we want. > Even > > in a phase when communication breaks. > > That's the problem of every group that is to great to reach the members > by > > speaking in front of them. > > And that's a point, OOo did not understand. > > > > Therefore, we will not come very far if we copy OOo. > > I agree with what you said, Johannes, but why should we invent the > wheel ourselves again? Let's check what's in the book that Ben > mentioned, learn from the mistakes, that Jono made himself and avoid > all the trouble. > > For all those who don't know Jono Bacaon, he is the Community Manager > for Ubuntu. So I would think, that he has some experience in building > a worldwide community. > I will download the book. This being said I'd like to share some thoughts about the notion of Community Management. Going out of OpenOffice.org community, I'm not the only one who feels an intense need for a community that seizes its own destiny and fulfills it. What this means, beyond the nice words, is that I will not be -will never be - a community manager and don't wish one for our community. I don't really like the notion of managing a community in the context of FOSS. you can certainly organize a community but I believe that it's important that contributors see their contributions valued and that they feel a sense of ownership. Beyond that point, proper governance make the sauce. What's important is to have a community of contributors that behave in an adult way; and community management include the notion of "management", or rather, the notion of management from the outside. I don't like that. Inside OOo, if you remember, we had several layers of community management. We know how it ended. My two eurocents (sorry if that sounds a bit grumpy), Charles. > > Sigrid > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hi Johannes, 2010/12/14 Johannes A. Bodwing : > Hello Benjamin, >> >> ... > >> ... >> Jono has written a book called "The Art of Community," which describes his >> approach. It's available to purchase or download under a CC license from his >> site: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ I've downloaded the book and started reading. It is a pleasant read. [...] > That's a good thing. And if he helps us - OK. > On the other side: We need just our brain to find the right solutions. > We have goals. That leads to: What is to do, to make this goals real, in a > global dimension? > We build a worldwide community. - That leads to: How can it realy work with > good results? > And basically: What is to do, to find an optimal structure for all of this? > And so on. > > We need a kind of selforganizing structure that leads to what we want. Even > in a phase when communication breaks. > That's the problem of every group that is to great to reach the members by > speaking in front of them. > And that's a point, OOo did not understand. > > Therefore, we will not come very far if we copy OOo. I agree with what you said, Johannes, but why should we invent the wheel ourselves again? Let's check what's in the book that Ben mentioned, learn from the mistakes, that Jono made himself and avoid all the trouble. For all those who don't know Jono Bacaon, he is the Community Manager for Ubuntu. So I would think, that he has some experience in building a worldwide community. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Community Management
Hello Benjamin, ... ... Jono has written a book called "The Art of Community," which describes his approach. It's available to purchase or download under a CC license from his site: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ This would be a great read for all of us involved in TDF as we strive to increase our membership and visibility to the world. Jono also offered to help us as our community grows, so if anyone is interested in talking to him, please reach out. (His info is on his site: http://www.jonobacon.org/contact-me/ ) That's a good thing. And if he helps us - OK. On the other side: We need just our brain to find the right solutions. We have goals. That leads to: What is to do, to make this goals real, in a global dimension? We build a worldwide community. - That leads to: How can it realy work with good results? And basically: What is to do, to find an optimal structure for all of this? And so on. We need a kind of selforganizing structure that leads to what we want. Even in a phase when communication breaks. That's the problem of every group that is to great to reach the members by speaking in front of them. And that's a point, OOo did not understand. Therefore, we will not come very far if we copy OOo. Gruß, Johannes -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[tdf-discuss] Community Management
I spoke with Jono Bacon about his role as Community Manager for Ubuntu, to collect some of his thoughts and suggestions for LibO. Jono has written a book called "The Art of Community," which describes his approach. It's available to purchase or download under a CC license from his site: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/ This would be a great read for all of us involved in TDF as we strive to increase our membership and visibility to the world. Jono also offered to help us as our community grows, so if anyone is interested in talking to him, please reach out. (His info is on his site: http://www.jonobacon.org/contact-me/ ) -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
