Re: [tdf-discuss] "Error in scripting framework"

2011-09-16 Thread Terrence Enger
I apologize for the length of my comment.  Also for the length of
the lines; turn of wrapping if you can.

On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 00:48 -0400, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak wrote:
> On 09/12/2011 11:39 AM, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> > Couldn't we write just "Oh dear, I am unable to find a macro you asked me to
> > execute!"?
> 
> What I would prefer to see on an error is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rather than just 
> 
> The trick is to find a way to express the error such that a 
> non-technical person is not horrified, yet, a technical person has a 
> chance to find the actual problem. A dialog with a details button is great.

IMHO, the messages on the IBM i, a.k.a. AS/400, do a good
job of providing a second level of explanation.  I am used
to a system which lets me dig deeper into a message; it
feels strange not to have this available.

(For the examples, remember that the user being addressed is
a programmer.  That is the reason for the programming
jargon; the technology lets you use the jargon you choose.)

In the images here, the text of "Message" is what the user
sees first.  For more, the system displays "Message",
"Cause", and "Recovery".  Some messages have an additional
"Technical description" which gives information expected to
be less commonly interesting.

For example, here is the English definition of one message.
Items of the form "&" are place-holders for
items to be supplied by the program at run-time.

| Display Formatted Message Text
|  System:   PUB1
|  Message ID . . . . . . . . . :   CPF2103
|  Message file . . . . . . . . :   QCPFMSG
|Library  . . . . . . . . . : QSYS
| 
|  Message . . . . :   Library &1 already exists in library list.
|  Cause . . . . . :   The library &1 already exists in the library search list.
|The library was not added.
|  Recovery  . . . :   If &1 is the library you specified omit the command. If
|you did not specify library &1 then change the library name (LIB 
parameter).
|Then try the command again.

Oooh.  I think I know how to make that happen.  Here is a
bit of the terminal session.  The right pointy bracket is
this system's analog of the trailing "$" of a bash prompt
string.

| Previous commands and messages:
| > addlible tenger1
|   Library TENGER1 added to library list.
| > addlible tenger1
|   Library TENGER1 already exists in library list.

Digging into the completion message from the second command
above, we see ...

|  Additional Message Information
| 
|  Message ID . . . . . . :   CPF2103   Severity . . . . . . . :   40
|  Message type . . . . . :   Escape
|  Date sent  . . . . . . :   09/16/11  Time sent  . . . . . . :   11:50:28
| 
|  Message . . . . :   Library TENGER1 already exists in library list.
|  Cause . . . . . :   The library TENGER1 already exists in the library search
|list. The library was not added.
|  Recovery  . . . :   If TENGER1 is the library you specified omit the command.
|If you did not specify library TENGER1 then change the library name (LIB
|parameter). Then try the command again.

The message has an existence independent of its appearance
on the screen.  Just for fun, let me change the date format
of my job to one I like better and look at the same message
again.

|  Additional Message Information
| 
|  Message ID . . . . . . :   CPF2103   Severity . . . . . . . :   40
|  Message type . . . . . :   Escape
|  Date sent  . . . . . . :   11/09/16  Time sent  . . . . . . :   11:50:28
| 
|  Message . . . . :   Library TENGER1 already exists in library list.
|  Cause . . . . . :   The library TENGER1 already exists in the library search
|list. The library was not added.
|  Recovery  . . . :   If TENGER1 is the library you specified omit the command.
|If you did not specify library TENGER1 then change the library name (LIB
|parameter). Then try the command again.

Another benefit of the technology is that the program is
generally unconcerned with the language of the display.
Here is the message description in German ...

|  Display Formatted Message Text
|  System:   PUB1
|  Message ID . . . . . . . . . :   CPF2103
|  Message file . . . . . . . . :   QCPFMSG
|Library  . . . . . . . . . : QSYS2929
| 
|  Nachricht . . . :   Bibliothek &1 in Bibliotheksliste bereits vorhanden.
|  Ursache  . . . . :  Die Bibliothek &1 ist in der Bibliothekssuchliste bereits
|vorhanden. Die Bibliothek wurde nicht hinzugef�gt.
|  Fehlerbeseitigung:  Wenn &1 die angegebne Bibliothek ist, den Befehl
|auslassen. Wurde Bibliothek &1 nicht angegeben, dann den Bibliotheksnamen
|(Parameter LIB) �ndern. Anschlie�end den Befehl wiederholen.

and a message instance ... 

|  Additional Message Information
| 
|  Message ID . . . . . . :   CPF2103 

Re: [tdf-discuss] "Error in scripting framework"

2011-09-15 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak

On 09/12/2011 11:39 AM, Olivier Hallot wrote:

Hello all

"Error in scripting framework during Basic script execution"
"Message: The following Basic scirpt could not be found"
" bla bla bla, method,
"bla bla bla location"...

Is there a message uglier, scarier,and horrendous as this one above? Not
hard to imagine a legion of frightened users freezing and crisping jaws on
reading such cursing message!

Couldn't we write just "Oh dear, I am unable to find a macro you asked me to
execute!"?


What I would prefer to see on an error is:




Rather than just 

The trick is to find a way to express the error such that a 
non-technical person is not horrified, yet, a technical person has a 
chance to find the actual problem. A dialog with a details button is great.


Now, that said, we would need to have a chat with the developers to make 
that happen


--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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Re: [tdf-discuss] "Error in scripting framework"

2011-09-13 Thread Fernand Vanrie

 Cor ,

+1

greetz

Fernand

Hi Olivier,

Olivier Hallot wrote (12-09-11 17:39)

Couldn't we write just "Oh dear, I am unable to find a macro you 
asked me to

execute!"?


Would the following be acceptable:
"Error: the macro you are trying to execute 
(..) could not be found."


Cheers,




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Re: [tdf-discuss] "Error in scripting framework"

2011-09-12 Thread Cor Nouws

Hi Olivier,

Olivier Hallot wrote (12-09-11 17:39)


Couldn't we write just "Oh dear, I am unable to find a macro you asked me to
execute!"?


Would the following be acceptable:
"Error: the macro you are trying to execute 
(..) could not be found."


Cheers,

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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[tdf-discuss] "Error in scripting framework"

2011-09-12 Thread Olivier Hallot
Hello all

"Error in scripting framework during Basic script execution"
"Message: The following Basic scirpt could not be found"
" bla bla bla, method,
"bla bla bla location"...

Is there a message uglier, scarier,and horrendous as this one above? Not
hard to imagine a legion of frightened users freezing and crisping jaws on
reading such cursing message!

Couldn't we write just "Oh dear, I am unable to find a macro you asked me to
execute!"?

Cheers
-- 
Olivier Hallot
Founder and Steering Commitee Member
The Document Foundation

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