Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Jonathan Aquilina wrote: On 2/23/11 12:25 AM, Valter Mura wrote: In data giovedì 13 gennaio 2011 22:53:59, Fabián Rodríguez ha scritto: On 11-01-12 11:35 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry Hi Larry, DRM means Digital Rights Management and although it (apparently) has been easily circumvented in the App store, there are indeed such control mechanisms implemented: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1075297 A quick search shows confusing information about this (again): http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/poetic-justice-watch-crackulous-r eleased-pirated-re-sold.ars http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20027731-264.html Free in Free software refers to Freedom, not free as in $0 cost. It's a common mistake, but the Free Software Foundation is not objecting to anyone selling Free software. Quite the opposite, in fact, except the software itself is not considering the only goods you would be monetizing. This article should help understanding such model: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Larry, knowing that you are the audience we seek, I'd like to know how you found out about OOo (or Libreoffice, if you didn't know OOo before). Perhaps that can provide other ways to better reach Mac audiences ? Should it be possible to have a light Libò version for BlackBerry? This kind of mobile phone is used by the majority of businessmen, I suppose it should be useful to have it inside the phone. What do you think? The biggest problem with getting on mobile devices, is that they use java. from my impressions on the project as a whole and following the dev list is that they are trying to remove java all together. It would be interesting to get some developer feedback on this. Maybe I don't understand this, but it seems to me that mobile devices are so different from regular PCs that any version of LO for mobile devices might just as well be written from scratch for that purpose borrowing little or no code from from the regular LO for PCs. That being the case, one might use Java, and the other not. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
In data giovedì 13 gennaio 2011 22:53:59, Fabián Rodríguez ha scritto: On 11-01-12 11:35 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry Hi Larry, DRM means Digital Rights Management and although it (apparently) has been easily circumvented in the App store, there are indeed such control mechanisms implemented: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1075297 A quick search shows confusing information about this (again): http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/poetic-justice-watch-crackulous-r eleased-pirated-re-sold.ars http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20027731-264.html Free in Free software refers to Freedom, not free as in $0 cost. It's a common mistake, but the Free Software Foundation is not objecting to anyone selling Free software. Quite the opposite, in fact, except the software itself is not considering the only goods you would be monetizing. This article should help understanding such model: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Larry, knowing that you are the audience we seek, I'd like to know how you found out about OOo (or Libreoffice, if you didn't know OOo before). Perhaps that can provide other ways to better reach Mac audiences ? Should it be possible to have a light Libò version for BlackBerry? This kind of mobile phone is used by the majority of businessmen, I suppose it should be useful to have it inside the phone. What do you think? -- Valter Registered Linux User #466410 http://counter.li.org Kubuntu Linux: www.kubuntu.org LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org OpenOffice.org: www.openoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
On 2/23/11 12:25 AM, Valter Mura wrote: In data giovedì 13 gennaio 2011 22:53:59, Fabián Rodríguez ha scritto: On 11-01-12 11:35 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry Hi Larry, DRM means Digital Rights Management and although it (apparently) has been easily circumvented in the App store, there are indeed such control mechanisms implemented: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1075297 A quick search shows confusing information about this (again): http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/poetic-justice-watch-crackulous-r eleased-pirated-re-sold.ars http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20027731-264.html Free in Free software refers to Freedom, not free as in $0 cost. It's a common mistake, but the Free Software Foundation is not objecting to anyone selling Free software. Quite the opposite, in fact, except the software itself is not considering the only goods you would be monetizing. This article should help understanding such model: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Larry, knowing that you are the audience we seek, I'd like to know how you found out about OOo (or Libreoffice, if you didn't know OOo before). Perhaps that can provide other ways to better reach Mac audiences ? Should it be possible to have a light Libò version for BlackBerry? This kind of mobile phone is used by the majority of businessmen, I suppose it should be useful to have it inside the phone. What do you think? The biggest problem with getting on mobile devices, is that they use java. from my impressions on the project as a whole and following the dev list is that they are trying to remove java all together. It would be interesting to get some developer feedback on this. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Jonathan, You should also ask all the other devs now :-) What I would like to have, more seriously, is lawyers working on this... Best, Charles. Le Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:27:17 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : I know an iphone dev, and he has told me the review process does take time, but i think in time this app store will be just as good as the app store found on the iphone. I am more then willing to head up a team to get this ball moving in regards to getting permission from oracle to relicense their code as well as getting it into the app store itself. i think though for that someone will need a developers license, which i am more then willing to get. On 01/14/2011 08:34 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 13/01/11 23:44, Larry Gusaas a écrit : Hi Larry, Make it available in the App Store. OOo was always listed in the Open Source software download page at Apple support. That service has now been replaced by the App Store. I checked out the App Store the day before yesterday and was rather disappointed by the paucity of freeware actually available. I had rather hoped that I would indeed find a similar array of content to that which used to be (still is ?) available under the Freeware / Open Source filter of the Apple Software Download page. Perhaps I missed something, or perhaps the store is just too recent (despite it being announced for a while already) for that software to have been included, or then again, perhaps it is the necessity of Apple's Review process that is putting people off. I assume that Apple reviews all of the software that an author might want to put on the store and has the final say in whether the app actually appears there or not ? Alex -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Hello Bob, Le Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:18:17 -0700, Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net a écrit : On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 04:37:55PM -0500, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2011-01-12 12:25 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:05:16 -0600, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : And please tell me, what was uncivil about my post? The tone of your post Larry. Please re-read it. Fwiw Larry, I circular filed your email address a while back precisely because: a) the tone of your emails are (often subtly) condescending and offensive, and b) when this is pointed out to you, you just don't seem to 'get it'... Don't bother replying, as I won't see it, unless someone else replies to it. I couldn't agree more. It's a crying shame that everyone doesn't conform to your rules of etiquette isn't it? Face it. The condescension and offensiveness in Larry's posts exist only in your mind. I'm afraid it doesn't. I did find it offensive too, and so did many people. Now I just want everyone to remember that this list is hosted by the Document Foundation. We would like to keep the discussions here civil and focused. In case of abuse, we may exclude any potential offender. This being said, this list should also be used to gather interest on LibreOffice. If you take a look here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Main_Page You will find many potential areas where you can contribute. Looking forward to your help and contribution(s)! Best regards, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Member of the Steering Committee, The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
The devs are more than welcome to comment What do some of the big boys think? On 01/17/2011 05:32 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Jonathan, You should also ask all the other devs now :-) What I would like to have, more seriously, is lawyers working on this... Best, Charles. Le Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:27:17 +0100, Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : I know an iphone dev, and he has told me the review process does take time, but i think in time this app store will be just as good as the app store found on the iphone. I am more then willing to head up a team to get this ball moving in regards to getting permission from oracle to relicense their code as well as getting it into the app store itself. i think though for that someone will need a developers license, which i am more then willing to get. On 01/14/2011 08:34 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 13/01/11 23:44, Larry Gusaas a écrit : Hi Larry, Make it available in the App Store. OOo was always listed in the Open Source software download page at Apple support. That service has now been replaced by the App Store. I checked out the App Store the day before yesterday and was rather disappointed by the paucity of freeware actually available. I had rather hoped that I would indeed find a similar array of content to that which used to be (still is ?) available under the Freeware / Open Source filter of the Apple Software Download page. Perhaps I missed something, or perhaps the store is just too recent (despite it being announced for a while already) for that software to have been included, or then again, perhaps it is the necessity of Apple's Review process that is putting people off. I assume that Apple reviews all of the software that an author might want to put on the store and has the final say in whether the app actually appears there or not ? Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Many of them are not here (too much traffic). Let's see if I can raise this at one of our next SC calls. We're really busy with other stuff, but... best, Charles. Le Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:39:13 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : The devs are more than welcome to comment What do some of the big boys think? On 01/17/2011 05:32 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Jonathan, You should also ask all the other devs now :-) What I would like to have, more seriously, is lawyers working on this... Best, Charles. Le Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:27:17 +0100, Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : I know an iphone dev, and he has told me the review process does take time, but i think in time this app store will be just as good as the app store found on the iphone. I am more then willing to head up a team to get this ball moving in regards to getting permission from oracle to relicense their code as well as getting it into the app store itself. i think though for that someone will need a developers license, which i am more then willing to get. On 01/14/2011 08:34 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 13/01/11 23:44, Larry Gusaas a écrit : Hi Larry, Make it available in the App Store. OOo was always listed in the Open Source software download page at Apple support. That service has now been replaced by the App Store. I checked out the App Store the day before yesterday and was rather disappointed by the paucity of freeware actually available. I had rather hoped that I would indeed find a similar array of content to that which used to be (still is ?) available under the Freeware / Open Source filter of the Apple Software Download page. Perhaps I missed something, or perhaps the store is just too recent (despite it being announced for a while already) for that software to have been included, or then again, perhaps it is the necessity of Apple's Review process that is putting people off. I assume that Apple reviews all of the software that an author might want to put on the store and has the final say in whether the app actually appears there or not ? Alex -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Just signed up for the SC mailing list ill try join the next meeting if thats possible. On 01/17/2011 06:00 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Many of them are not here (too much traffic). Let's see if I can raise this at one of our next SC calls. We're really busy with other stuff, but... best, Charles. Le Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:39:13 +0100, Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : The devs are more than welcome to comment What do some of the big boys think? On 01/17/2011 05:32 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Jonathan, You should also ask all the other devs now :-) What I would like to have, more seriously, is lawyers working on this... Best, Charles. Le Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:27:17 +0100, Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : I know an iphone dev, and he has told me the review process does take time, but i think in time this app store will be just as good as the app store found on the iphone. I am more then willing to head up a team to get this ball moving in regards to getting permission from oracle to relicense their code as well as getting it into the app store itself. i think though for that someone will need a developers license, which i am more then willing to get. On 01/14/2011 08:34 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 13/01/11 23:44, Larry Gusaas a écrit : Hi Larry, Make it available in the App Store. OOo was always listed in the Open Source software download page at Apple support. That service has now been replaced by the App Store. I checked out the App Store the day before yesterday and was rather disappointed by the paucity of freeware actually available. I had rather hoped that I would indeed find a similar array of content to that which used to be (still is ?) available under the Freeware / Open Source filter of the Apple Software Download page. Perhaps I missed something, or perhaps the store is just too recent (despite it being announced for a while already) for that software to have been included, or then again, perhaps it is the necessity of Apple's Review process that is putting people off. I assume that Apple reviews all of the software that an author might want to put on the store and has the final say in whether the app actually appears there or not ? Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE : Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Alex. I hope nothing too bad happened to you... Take care Charles. Le 17 janv. 2011, 7:21 PM, sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com a écrit : On 17/01/2011 21:14, Alexander Thurgood wrote: [...] This lawyer is busy trying to find time to get its head round the draft TM usage policy/guide... Oups, I hope you're safe, please take care of you Alex! Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgArchive: http://lista... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On 2011-01-12 12:25 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:05:16 -0600, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : And please tell me, what was uncivil about my post? The tone of your post Larry. Please re-read it. Fwiw Larry, I circular filed your email address a while back precisely because: a) the tone of your emails are (often subtly) condescending and offensive, and b) when this is pointed out to you, you just don't seem to 'get it'... Don't bother replying, as I won't see it, unless someone else replies to it. -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On 2011-01-13 11:08 AM, todd rme wrote: and they have made it quite clear they are totally opposed to the existence of Libo. When/where did they make this 'quite clear'? I seem to recall the opposite (they were fine with it). -- Best regards, Charles -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 04:37:55PM -0500, Charles Marcus wrote: On 2011-01-12 12:25 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:05:16 -0600, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : And please tell me, what was uncivil about my post? The tone of your post Larry. Please re-read it. Fwiw Larry, I circular filed your email address a while back precisely because: a) the tone of your emails are (often subtly) condescending and offensive, and b) when this is pointed out to you, you just don't seem to 'get it'... Don't bother replying, as I won't see it, unless someone else replies to it. I couldn't agree more. It's a crying shame that everyone doesn't conform to your rules of etiquette isn't it? Face it. The condescension and offensiveness in Larry's posts exist only in your mind. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
I know an iphone dev, and he has told me the review process does take time, but i think in time this app store will be just as good as the app store found on the iphone. I am more then willing to head up a team to get this ball moving in regards to getting permission from oracle to relicense their code as well as getting it into the app store itself. i think though for that someone will need a developers license, which i am more then willing to get. On 01/14/2011 08:34 AM, Alexander Thurgood wrote: Le 13/01/11 23:44, Larry Gusaas a écrit : Hi Larry, Make it available in the App Store. OOo was always listed in the Open Source software download page at Apple support. That service has now been replaced by the App Store. I checked out the App Store the day before yesterday and was rather disappointed by the paucity of freeware actually available. I had rather hoped that I would indeed find a similar array of content to that which used to be (still is ?) available under the Freeware / Open Source filter of the Apple Software Download page. Perhaps I missed something, or perhaps the store is just too recent (despite it being announced for a while already) for that software to have been included, or then again, perhaps it is the necessity of Apple's Review process that is putting people off. I assume that Apple reviews all of the software that an author might want to put on the store and has the final say in whether the app actually appears there or not ? Alex -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Mirek LO is a separate entity from Oracle, they just forked OOo and are taking it down a different bath with a different name. On 1/12/11 3:49 PM, Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Hi Jonathan, everyone, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com Mirek LO is a separate entity from Oracle, they just forked OOo and are taking it down a different bath with a different name. I know that, but most of the code of LibreOffice comes from Oracle, and therefore if LibO wants to change its license, it needs an OK from Oracle. On 1/12/11 3:49 PM, Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Q: Why is this email five sentences or less? A: http://five.sentenc.es -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? On 1/13/11 10:30 AM, Mirek M. wrote: Hi Jonathan, everyone, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Mirek LO is a separate entity from Oracle, they just forked OOo and are taking it down a different bath with a different name. I know that, but most of the code of LibreOffice comes from Oracle, and therefore if LibO wants to change its license, it needs an OK from Oracle. On 1/12/11 3:49 PM, Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Hi, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com: You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? yes, since the original contributors agreed to use a specific license. This cannot changed without consent from those people. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
In all honesty would they object to it? On 1/13/11 11:46 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com: You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? yes, since the original contributors agreed to use a specific license. This cannot changed without consent from those people. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Hey Jonathan, 1) Sigrid is right, we would need to ask for Oracle to relicense. 2) The new, non-Oracle patches are however licensed under a dual (L)GPL v3 + (note the + which allows us to upgrade) and MPL + as we found we had several code lines written under that license inside the existing OOo code. 3) would Oracle object to it? I'm not Oracle and can't speak for them, but I don't think they're our best friends for life... :-) More seriously, why would they want to help us ? Best, Charles. Le Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:51:52 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : In all honesty would they object to it? On 1/13/11 11:46 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com: You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? yes, since the original contributors agreed to use a specific license. This cannot changed without consent from those people. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
If they are considering pulling the plug on the OOo line they would be on our side. I think its worth a shot in my honest opinion. On 01/13/2011 01:19 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hey Jonathan, 1) Sigrid is right, we would need to ask for Oracle to relicense. 2) The new, non-Oracle patches are however licensed under a dual (L)GPL v3 + (note the + which allows us to upgrade) and MPL + as we found we had several code lines written under that license inside the existing OOo code. 3) would Oracle object to it? I'm not Oracle and can't speak for them, but I don't think they're our best friends for life... :-) More seriously, why would they want to help us ? Best, Charles. Le Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:51:52 +0100, Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com a écrit : In all honesty would they object to it? On 1/13/11 11:46 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Hi, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com: You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? yes, since the original contributors agreed to use a specific license. This cannot changed without consent from those people. Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Todd no there was no announcement, but why have exactly the same office suite out there, they might actually end up pulling the plug once LO gets going quite well. On 1/13/11 5:00 PM, todd rme wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: If they are considering pulling the plug on the OOo line they would be on our side. I think its worth a shot in my honest opinion. What makes you think they are planning on doing this? So far they seem pretty intent on keeping it going, and have done everything they can to fight Libo. Or did I miss an announcement where they said they intend to discontinue OOo? -Todd -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: Todd no there was no announcement, but why have exactly the same office suite out there, they might actually end up pulling the plug once LO gets going quite well. Part of what they bought when they bought Sun was OOo, and they have seemed pretty intent on keeping it running so they can make money of it (they are selling a commercial variant). They may kill it if Libo eats all their market share and they can't justify paying the developers, but right now that hasn't happened and they have made it quite clear they are totally opposed to the existence of Libo. -Todd -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com You would still need permission even though its a fork of the original code? Yes. The LGPL license states that: If you modify a copy of the Library, and, in your modifications, a facility refers to a function or data to be supplied by an Application that uses the facility (other than as an argument passed when the facility is invoked), then you may convey a copy of the modified version: a) under this License, provided that you make a good faith effort to ensure that, in the event an Application does not supply the function or data, the facility still operates, and performs whatever part of its purpose remains meaningful, or b) under the GNU GPL, with none of the additional permissions of this License applicable to that copy. Hence, LibreOffice can only be either LGPL or GPL, unless it gets permission from all its contributors to alter the license. For more information, see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html . On 1/13/11 10:30 AM, Mirek M. wrote: Hi Jonathan, everyone, 2011/1/13 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Mirek LO is a separate entity from Oracle, they just forked OOo and are taking it down a different bath with a different name. I know that, but most of the code of LibreOffice comes from Oracle, and therefore if LibO wants to change its license, it needs an OK from Oracle. On 1/12/11 3:49 PM, Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%25252bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org discuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%252bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Q: Why is this email five sentences or less? A: http://five.sentenc.es -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
On 11-01-12 11:35 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry Hi Larry, DRM means Digital Rights Management and although it (apparently) has been easily circumvented in the App store, there are indeed such control mechanisms implemented: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1075297 A quick search shows confusing information about this (again): http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/poetic-justice-watch-crackulous-released-pirated-re-sold.ars http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20027731-264.html Free in Free software refers to Freedom, not free as in $0 cost. It's a common mistake, but the Free Software Foundation is not objecting to anyone selling Free software. Quite the opposite, in fact, except the software itself is not considering the only goods you would be monetizing. This article should help understanding such model: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Larry, knowing that you are the audience we seek, I'd like to know how you found out about OOo (or Libreoffice, if you didn't know OOo before). Perhaps that can provide other ways to better reach Mac audiences ? Cheers, Fabian -- LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ ~ Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store - or else ?
Being a mac user myself, i found out about OOo through word of mouth as well as when i started working with Linux. i found out it had installers for other OS's and i went from there. i usually promote through word of mouth be it mac windows Linux users. On 1/13/11 10:53 PM, Fabián Rodríguez wrote: On 11-01-12 11:35 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry Hi Larry, DRM means Digital Rights Management and although it (apparently) has been easily circumvented in the App store, there are indeed such control mechanisms implemented: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1075297 A quick search shows confusing information about this (again): http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/poetic-justice-watch-crackulous-released-pirated-re-sold.ars http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20027731-264.html Free in Free software refers to Freedom, not free as in $0 cost. It's a common mistake, but the Free Software Foundation is not objecting to anyone selling Free software. Quite the opposite, in fact, except the software itself is not considering the only goods you would be monetizing. This article should help understanding such model: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Larry, knowing that you are the audience we seek, I'd like to know how you found out about OOo (or Libreoffice, if you didn't know OOo before). Perhaps that can provide other ways to better reach Mac audiences ? Cheers, Fabian -- LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ ~ Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. On 01/08/2011 01:46 PM, Charles.h.Schulz wrote: Ben, To be frank I would be very tempted by the Mac App Store. We would gain a lot of traction and perhaps revenue. I read the links you provided with attention but what I can gather is somewhat controversial or at least would require some sort of legal workaround. Let me explain what I see: - FSF thinks the Mac App Store policies are in contraddiction with the GPL and points to specific clauses in it. - the neat and clean way to do this is to relicense the software completely. We cannot do this -one of the reasons is that we don't want a copyright assignment- but even if we had one we would still be hindered by the Oracle copyright in it. Last but not least, at this Westnoth is in conflict with the FSF. I usually consider myself a free and independent thinking person but I also know that the FSF is our friend. We talk to them. Why making ennemies? Just my 2 euro cents, -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Lots of apps available can be found for free. the cost of the app is up to the developer if s/he want to put it up for free. I think LO could be a model example to other OSS projects that this is an opportunity for them to increase their following. On 01/12/2011 05:35 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. Larry -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Larry, Le Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:35:06 -0600, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : On 2011/01/12 8:49 AM Mirek M. wrote: 2011/1/12 Jonathan Aquilinaeagles051...@gmail.com Why not license it under an appropriate license that would allow us to put it in the app store? would that mean we would need to remove the GPL or can it be dual licensed to go on the app store? I'm no expert, but as I understand it, LibreOffice is licensed under the LGPL, which should allow it to be used with DRM (whereas VLC was GPL). In order for LibreOffice to change its license, it would need to get an OK from all its contributors, including Oracle, which is not too likely to happen IMHO. But I don't think that's necessary in this case. There is no DRM used on the Mac OS X App Store. There is DRM on the Apple iOS AppStore. They are two separate entities. The FSF objections are to the DRM on the iOS AppStore and do not apply to the OS X App Store. Of course, the FSF objects to Apple and any other company that does not give away their software for free. There is more than the DRM issue that is stake here. We are mostly talking about the legal terms of the store. The FSF explains it adds more terms than what the GPL can allow. This being said Jonathan is making an interesting point about the LGPL, we'll need to check that. Please let me reiterate, Larry, that the tone of our discussion on the mailing lists should be civil. Therefore, understand that not everyone shares your passion or interest for the Mac platform. Thank you, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Le Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:05:16 -0600, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : On 2011/01/12 11:00 AM Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Please let me reiterate, Larry, that the tone of our discussion on the mailing lists should be civil. Therefore, understand that not everyone shares your passion or interest for the Mac platform. And please tell me, what was uncivil about my post? The tone of your post Larry. Please re-read it. Kind of ironic coming from someone who dismisses as Soapboxing the raising of legitimate concerns. My blog is not one of the project's mailing lists. Thank you, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On 11-01-07 06:06 PM, Benjamin Horst wrote: [...] Thus, it does not appear that Apple would block LibO because of our LGPL license (Wesnoth is GPL v2). The FSF is very unhappy with the App Store, but this does not appear to be a dealbreaker if we wish to go ahead with it. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com Apple won't likely block the app until the FSF or its author (as happened with VLC) demands that they comply with the licenses. If/when that happens is another story. Cheers, Fabian -- LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ ~ Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Hi Am 08.01.11 14:23, schrieb Fabián Rodríguez: Apple won't likely block the app until the FSF or its author (as happened with VLC) demands that they comply with the licenses. If/when that happens is another story. Concerning VCL: ...Rémi Denis-Courmont waged a one-man campaign against Applidium's iOS port of VLC, claiming the app violated the GNU public license (GPL) because App Store purchases have Digital Rights Management (DRM) applied to them. [1] I do not know if this applies to AppStore for normal Applications (not iOS) as well - the point her was iOS' DRM system for purchases. [1] http://www.tuaw.com/2011/01/08/vlc-app-removed-from-app-store/ -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann OpenOffice.org - auch auf dem Mac! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM todd rme wrote: I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total control over the software you are allowed to install on your own computer. Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit spreading such BS. Larry You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates, which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not). IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a security upgrade. I am not going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is almost guaranteed to fail. Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore, just look at NeoOffice's take on it: http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forumsfile=viewtopict=8290start=0postdays=0postorder=aschighlight= Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO). Cheers, Fabian -- LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ ~ Fabián Rodríguez http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE : [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Larry, Let me remind you that we expect courtesy on our lists. Thank you, Charles. Le 7 janv. 2011, 6:55 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com a écrit : On 2011/01/07 9:38 AM Fabián Rodríguez wrote: You're right, at least for now. Apple controls i... Your unsubstantiated idle speculation is pure FUD. Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website... Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgArchive: http://listarchives... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
2011/1/7 Fabián Rodríguez magic...@member.fsf.org On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM todd rme wrote: I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total control over the software you are allowed to install on your own computer. Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit spreading such BS. Larry You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates, which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not). IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a security upgrade. I am not going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is almost guaranteed to fail. Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore, just look at NeoOffice's take on it: http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forumsfile=viewtopict=8290start=0postdays=0postorder=aschighlight= Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO). Cheers, Fabian To be honest I too have found it really strange that so many FOSS advocates are Apple advocates. Let's face it if Apple had established the monopoly that Wintel had it would have been worse. Systems more closed and even all the hardware would have been locked into Apple. Ok, all big commercial interests are going to be self-serving but at least let's be consistent with the attitudes :-) -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications The Schools ITQ www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: RE : [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 07:22:21PM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Larry, Let me remind you that we expect courtesy on our lists. What was posted was in no way discourteous. You're interpreting bluntness as discourtesy. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: RE : [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Ok that's it last message I read on this thread My impression JAVA = NO APP STORE LIBREOFFICE = JAVA therefore (for the near future) LIBREOFFICE = NO APP STORE Thanks guys , I really hoped this would happen, but, alas life is tough ;) Rogerio 2011/1/7 Robert Holtzman hol...@cox.net On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 07:22:21PM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Larry, Let me remind you that we expect courtesy on our lists. What was posted was in no way discourteous. You're interpreting bluntness as discourtesy. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
I was told there is an issue with mac and the GPL and LGPL licensing. not sure what exactly though. On 1/7/11 8:26 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/07 12:57 AM Jonathan Aquilina wrote: Someone also mentioned there are issues with GPL licensing that Apple doesn't seem to like :-/ And the license has nothing to do with an application installing on a Mac computer. I have several GPL and LGPL licensed applications installed. Larry -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Jan 7, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: I was told there is an issue with mac and the GPL and LGPL licensing. not sure what exactly though. Some quick reading shows the issue is not at all clear. For example, the Wesnoth community has debated this in depth, but the ultimate result is that Wesnoth is currently available in the App Store (for iOS), and even charges a small fee. (Just as Fabian Rodriguez suggested earlier in this thread.) An article on their community discussion is here: http://lwn.net/Articles/396535/ If you have iTunes, you can see the app store page for Wesnoth here: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battle-for-wesnoth/id340691963?mt=8 Thus, it does not appear that Apple would block LibO because of our LGPL license (Wesnoth is GPL v2). The FSF is very unhappy with the App Store, but this does not appear to be a dealbreaker if we wish to go ahead with it. -Ben Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas larry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM todd rme wrote: I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total control over the software you are allowed to install on your own computer. Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit spreading such BS. They do if you are using an iPad (unless you have hacked it). -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mac App Store
Someone also mentioned there are issues with GPL licensing that Apple doesn't seem to like :-/ On 1/7/11 6:49 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/01/06 11:05 PM todd rme wrote: On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaaslarry.gus...@gmail.com wrote: Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit spreading such BS. They do if you are using an iPad (unless you have hacked it). As I said, Apple does not control what software is installed on my, or any other, computer. OS X allows software to be installed from any source, not just from the Mac App Store. Larry -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
