Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
On 1 December 2011 14:27, toki wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 28/11/11 11:14, Pedro wrote: > > I'm wondering if the recent offer for download of the "add supported" > limited > edition of Microsoft Office Starter is a reaction to the improving quality > > Microsoft has been experimenting with various low-cost/no-cost to the > user pricing schemes for the last five or so years. > > Nothing to do with office suite quality, and everything to do with > trying to convert Joe Sixpack into thinking that software for a service > is the way things have always been done. > Snag is they are not going to get the margins that way and they will effectively destroy their own cash cow. Its a classic problem. > jonathon > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO147cAAoJEEKevXexj2B1h/wH/jwsuvQ1LQPqurjPwotVaIQR > UOo7ATj5rH0iqiDG2YyoOzCGhSvJWva/t/PDvmws/9tXPiLdpViZTcBYm4nJ4zCL > aoDv48+LK2TKci2e1HIuDu3QTQ+dCVN50TKowmJUstocALhRsWRmwJAa+bwOuYaM > yGdERkF/HsscxPd+TnkGuSqfy0Jy1ayf4LQlLxBpgxuQdtwgwLo45QgOFsUmTTSJ > FT5TBVmW6xs3wIzGSi0v+2Ld6ni6+V3bcFTlDtwy2W2LV/ev/8RmKWr1icPX40jW > FBXHg1Jwjw7j7i+ylWW1Z+7ofU0XkBoQb6z/BwrPedqIgsp5XWS88zvNVQPwCPs= > =9UU3 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 28/11/11 11:14, Pedro wrote: > I'm wondering if the recent offer for download of the "add supported" limited edition of Microsoft Office Starter is a reaction to the improving quality Microsoft has been experimenting with various low-cost/no-cost to the user pricing schemes for the last five or so years. Nothing to do with office suite quality, and everything to do with trying to convert Joe Sixpack into thinking that software for a service is the way things have always been done. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO147cAAoJEEKevXexj2B1h/wH/jwsuvQ1LQPqurjPwotVaIQR UOo7ATj5rH0iqiDG2YyoOzCGhSvJWva/t/PDvmws/9tXPiLdpViZTcBYm4nJ4zCL aoDv48+LK2TKci2e1HIuDu3QTQ+dCVN50TKowmJUstocALhRsWRmwJAa+bwOuYaM yGdERkF/HsscxPd+TnkGuSqfy0Jy1ayf4LQlLxBpgxuQdtwgwLo45QgOFsUmTTSJ FT5TBVmW6xs3wIzGSi0v+2Ld6ni6+V3bcFTlDtwy2W2LV/ev/8RmKWr1icPX40jW FBXHg1Jwjw7j7i+ylWW1Z+7ofU0XkBoQb6z/BwrPedqIgsp5XWS88zvNVQPwCPs= =9UU3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
Libreoffice just needs step by step work with constant maintenance and fresh ideas for consumers that work. Microsoft and apple have a limited resource in finding ideas and to testing there office suites. On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, lj wrote: > It is very difficult for libreoffice to be cloud based. Libreoffice is doing the right thing with fixing bugs. But they need to stick with one code base in the cloud. Such as html5 or java. I would use html5. Libreoffice writer desktop suite is really good because it is fast. Speed is a priority for people wanting to get work done. It needs to be incorporated in all the apps including the start up of libreoffice. It is fast but it must be the fastest. Clear and simple to getting a document spreadsheet power point created. That is the problem that I find in Microsoft office it freezes sometimes and the ribbon makes dialogue boxes complicated not simple for power users and more random errors. Libreoffice must create a cloud based app. The key for libreoffice and most likely for apple and especially Microsoft is updated fixes and maintenance and lastly releases. It is something that libreoffice does and communicates well with the use of schedules and wikis. The cloud will need to have constant support and maintenance and releases for it to work effectively with users and their different desktop environments. It is a lot of hard work. But if it worked libreoffice would defanitely not go under or in strife like Internet explorer on Mac or openoffice. At the end of the day. There is a way to bridge the cloud and the desktop. Some people do not like working in the cloud because of security. Some people like to work on the cloud because of collaboration. If libreoffice could incorporate both, it would be something that google apple and Microsoft would need to think about. > Lj. > > On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: >> On 29 November 2011 10:39, lj wrote: >> >> Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat >>> that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's free >>> and easy to use. >> >> >> Yes, people expect to get stuff like this for free from the internet so it >> is difficult for MS or Apple to charge extra for office software in this >> environment and if they offer it for free they run the risk of killing >> their own cash cows on the desktop. >> >> >>> It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile >>> and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay in >>> the game. >>> >> >> Cloud is one area where features do tend to be light so a cloud based LibO >> would be a killer app, especially if there was a compact version that could >> run on a cell phone, locally. But the big problem is that this is a massive >> amount of work and by the time it is done, it might well be too late. >> >> >> >> >>> Lj. >>> On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: >>> > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman >> >wrote: >>> > >>> >> Olav Dahlum wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ian Lynch wrote >>> >>> >>> > Google should do a version of Office based on the >>> > OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available >>> > freely >>> > and brand it Google Office. Given their brand strength and >>> marketing, >>> > that >>> > would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do. >>> Slightly >>> > surprised they haven't already done it. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the >>> "Cloud" >>> with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite >>> doesn't >>> make much sense... >>> >>> In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed" >>> countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so >>> for >>> more >>> than 2/3 of the world's population >>> (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm< >>> http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm> >>> ) >>> >>> I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative to >>> MS >>> Office (but would love to see some numbers :) ) >>> >>> >>> >>> Just a couple of observations here. First, most businesses do not and >>> >> probably will not in the near future, go to cloud computing. >>> > >>> > >>> > I sort of hope not, gives us competitive advantage but realistically, >>> most >>> > businesses are SMEs employing less than 10 people so I should think >>> "most" >>> > will migrate at least to partial use of cloud services. Like us, it >>> doesn't >>> > have to be all one thing or another. >>> > >>> > there are several reasons for this, foremost, security. >>> > >>> > >>> > If cloud security was an insurmountable problem, I doubt we would have >>> > on-line banking. >>> > >>> > >>> >> Companies do not want important documents with proprietary informa
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
It is very difficult for libreoffice to be cloud based. Libreoffice is doing the right thing with fixing bugs. But they need to stick with one code base in the cloud. Such as html5 or java. I would use html5. Libreoffice writer desktop suite is really good because it is fast. Speed is a priority for people wanting to get work done. It needs to be incorporated in all the apps including the start up of libreoffice. It is fast but it must be the fastest. Clear and simple to getting a document spreadsheet power point created. That is the problem that I find in Microsoft office it freezes sometimes and the ribbon makes dialogue boxes complicated not simple for power users and more random errors. Libreoffice must create a cloud based app. The key for libreoffice and most likely for apple and especially Microsoft is updated fixes and maintenance and lastly releases. It is something that libreoffice does and communicates well with the use of schedules and wikis. The cloud will need to have constant support and maintenance and releases for it to work effectively with users and their different desktop environments. It is a lot of hard work. But if it worked libreoffice would defanitely not go under or in strife like Internet explorer on Mac or openoffice. At the end of the day. There is a way to bridge the cloud and the desktop. Some people do not like working in the cloud because of security. Some people like to work on the cloud because of collaboration. If libreoffice could incorporate both, it would be something that google apple and Microsoft would need to think about. Lj. On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: > On 29 November 2011 10:39, lj wrote: > > Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat >> that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's free >> and easy to use. > > > Yes, people expect to get stuff like this for free from the internet so it > is difficult for MS or Apple to charge extra for office software in this > environment and if they offer it for free they run the risk of killing > their own cash cows on the desktop. > > >> It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile >> and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay in >> the game. >> > > Cloud is one area where features do tend to be light so a cloud based LibO > would be a killer app, especially if there was a compact version that could > run on a cell phone, locally. But the big problem is that this is a massive > amount of work and by the time it is done, it might well be too late. > > > > >> Lj. >> On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: >> > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman > >wrote: >> > >> >> Olav Dahlum wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> Ian Lynch wrote >> >> >> > Google should do a version of Office based on the >> > OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available >> > freely >> > and brand it Google Office. Given their brand strength and >> marketing, >> > that >> > would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do. >> Slightly >> > surprised they haven't already done it. >> > >> > >> > >> Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the >> "Cloud" >> with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite >> doesn't >> make much sense... >> >> In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed" >> countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so >> for >> more >> than 2/3 of the world's population >> (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm< >> http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm> >> ) >> >> I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative to >> MS >> Office (but would love to see some numbers :) ) >> >> >> >>> Just a couple of observations here. First, most businesses do not and >> >> probably will not in the near future, go to cloud computing. >> > >> > >> > I sort of hope not, gives us competitive advantage but realistically, >> most >> > businesses are SMEs employing less than 10 people so I should think >> "most" >> > will migrate at least to partial use of cloud services. Like us, it >> doesn't >> > have to be all one thing or another. >> > >> > there are several reasons for this, foremost, security. >> > >> > >> > If cloud security was an insurmountable problem, I doubt we would have >> > on-line banking. >> > >> > >> >> Companies do not want important documents with proprietary information >> >> flying back and forth on the internet where they could be intercepted. >> > >> > >> > That misunderstands Cloud. We have content types that are secure to the >> > people that need to see them. Some pages on the web site can only be >> viewed >> > by people with certain permissions - eg the qualifications regulators and >> > us. If th
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
On 29 November 2011 10:39, lj wrote: Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat > that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's free > and easy to use. Yes, people expect to get stuff like this for free from the internet so it is difficult for MS or Apple to charge extra for office software in this environment and if they offer it for free they run the risk of killing their own cash cows on the desktop. > It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile > and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay in > the game. > Cloud is one area where features do tend to be light so a cloud based LibO would be a killer app, especially if there was a compact version that could run on a cell phone, locally. But the big problem is that this is a massive amount of work and by the time it is done, it might well be too late. > Lj. > On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: > > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman >wrote: > > > >> Olav Dahlum wrote: > >> > >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote: > >>> > >>> > Ian Lynch wrote > > > > Google should do a version of Office based on the > > OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available > > freely > > and brand it Google Office. Given their brand strength and > marketing, > > that > > would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do. > Slightly > > surprised they haven't already done it. > > > > > > > Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the > "Cloud" > with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite > doesn't > make much sense... > > In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed" > countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so > for > more > than 2/3 of the world's population > (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm< > http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm> > ) > > I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative to > MS > Office (but would love to see some numbers :) ) > > > >>> Just a couple of observations here. First, most businesses do not and > >> probably will not in the near future, go to cloud computing. > > > > > > I sort of hope not, gives us competitive advantage but realistically, > most > > businesses are SMEs employing less than 10 people so I should think > "most" > > will migrate at least to partial use of cloud services. Like us, it > doesn't > > have to be all one thing or another. > > > > there are several reasons for this, foremost, security. > > > > > > If cloud security was an insurmountable problem, I doubt we would have > > on-line banking. > > > > > >> Companies do not want important documents with proprietary information > >> flying back and forth on the internet where they could be intercepted. > > > > > > That misunderstands Cloud. We have content types that are secure to the > > people that need to see them. Some pages on the web site can only be > viewed > > by people with certain permissions - eg the qualifications regulators and > > us. If there is something that is really, really top secret we can make a > > special arrangement for it but sending as an e-mail attachment is > probably > > worse security. In fact, Cloud enables us to authenticate certificates > > directly on-line without a charge so it increases security in our most > > important business activity. If we change our policies and procedures, > the > > regulators get them immediately, we don't have to remember to send them > an > > updated file and they don't have to have a management system for > different > > file versions. > > > > > >> Second, reliability. Remote servers and the infrastructure between > local > >> computers and them have been known to go down. Most companies don't > want > >> to have to rely on vulnerable remote connections. > >> > > > > We all have 3G mobile phones here. In the rare occasion of an outage, we > > can still access all our files via wireless. Ok, its a bit slower but its > > certainly good enough. It also means I can access everything when abroad. > > Its a bit like saying relying on electricity is relying on vulnerable > > remote connections. If its critical you have back up batteries or a > > generator, if it isn't you live with the odd power cut because overall > the > > benefits outweigh that. > > > >> > >> Another thing, most companies would like to own the resources that they > >> depend on for day to day operation. > >> > > > > We own all our resources. Cloud does not mean you have to give up > ownership > > of your resources, it means you are buying a hosting service. > > > > I hear a lot of people talking about how tablets are taking over, but > >> somehow I just don't see a corporate steno pool using tablets or > >> smartphones to produce their importan
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
I think libreoffice needs to create or adopt cloud technologies. Microsoft will most likely try to go into the cloud area. With sky drive. My scary thought is what apple might do with iWork if it were to turn its code base into the adoption of cloud technologies like or better than google docs. The problem I think consumers are dealing with are inconsistency of features in cloud based technologies which are in normal office suites. Such as having a default font for text. Which Microsoft office and libreoffice have. But not google docs. Microsoft have to contribute their code only to the windows os. With google they have the power of making changes that suit apple windows and Linux users. With libreoffice I believe it has the real advantage of being cross platform. At the end of the day. Microsoft do have office on apple computers. It won't last for long because Microsoft and apple are two different companies with different objectives and goals. Office on the Mac will most likely become Internet explorer on the Mac. Because IWork I believe will be heavily marketed by apple over the next two years. Libreoffice has one thing. It's for free. You can't beat that price. Consumers will use a product like google docs because it's free and easy to use. It's the exact same for libreoffice they just need mobile and cloud adoption and a little more advertisement in marketing to stay in the game. Lj. On Tuesday, 29 November 2011, Ian Lynch wrote: > On 28 November 2011 20:16, Robert Derman wrote: > >> Olav Dahlum wrote: >> >>> On 28/11/11 13:13, Pedro wrote: >>> >>> Ian Lynch wrote > Google should do a version of Office based on the > OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available > freely > and brand it Google Office. Given their brand strength and marketing, > that > would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do. Slightly > surprised they haven't already done it. > > > Interesting concept. But I think they are investing a lot on the "Cloud" with the Chrome Book laptops that investing time on an offline suite doesn't make much sense... In the same line of thought: Google Docs is fine in the "Developed" countries where working in the "Cloud" is a reality. This is not so for more than 2/3 of the world's population (http://www.**internetworldstats.com/stats.**htm< http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm> ) I do believe that currently LibreOffice is the leading alternative to MS Office (but would love to see some numbers :) ) >>> Just a couple of observations here. First, most businesses do not and >> probably will not in the near future, go to cloud computing. > > > I sort of hope not, gives us competitive advantage but realistically, most > businesses are SMEs employing less than 10 people so I should think "most" > will migrate at least to partial use of cloud services. Like us, it doesn't > have to be all one thing or another. > > there are several reasons for this, foremost, security. > > > If cloud security was an insurmountable problem, I doubt we would have > on-line banking. > > >> Companies do not want important documents with proprietary information >> flying back and forth on the internet where they could be intercepted. > > > That misunderstands Cloud. We have content types that are secure to the > people that need to see them. Some pages on the web site can only be viewed > by people with certain permissions - eg the qualifications regulators and > us. If there is something that is really, really top secret we can make a > special arrangement for it but sending as an e-mail attachment is probably > worse security. In fact, Cloud enables us to authenticate certificates > directly on-line without a charge so it increases security in our most > important business activity. If we change our policies and procedures, the > regulators get them immediately, we don't have to remember to send them an > updated file and they don't have to have a management system for different > file versions. > > >> Second, reliability. Remote servers and the infrastructure between local >> computers and them have been known to go down. Most companies don't want >> to have to rely on vulnerable remote connections. >> > > We all have 3G mobile phones here. In the rare occasion of an outage, we > can still access all our files via wireless. Ok, its a bit slower but its > certainly good enough. It also means I can access everything when abroad. > Its a bit like saying relying on electricity is relying on vulnerable > remote connections. If its critical you have back up batteries or a > generator, if it isn't you live with the odd power cut because overall the > benefits outweigh that. > >> >> Another thing, most companies would like to own the resources that they >> depend on for day to day operation. >> > > We own all our resources. Cloud does not mean you
Re: [tdf-discuss] Is Microsoft getting worried about free Office suites?
On 28 November 2011 11:14, Pedro wrote: > I'm wondering if the recent offer for download of the "add supported" > limited > edition of Microsoft Office Starter is a reaction to the improving quality > and dynamics of several free Office suites (with LibreOffice leading the > pack) Possibly Google Docs leading the pack ;-). I use both LibO and Google Docs, but probably slightly more Google these days. or if this is simply a strategy of giving something for free to get > people to buy new hardware in the Spending Season? > > I know it may sound absurd but since Office Starter is for Windows Vista > and > 7 only, some people might consider buying the new machine (the marketing > people convinced they need) just to take advantage of this freebee :) > Thoughts? > I'd say it is probably an experiment to see what revenue could be generated from ads, given that increasingly people expect to get software gratis and without the hassle of license fees. That seems to me more likely to be related to the influence of the internet than desktop apps. They need to consider alternative revenue models to compete with Google's search and advertising model. Google should do a version of Office based on the OOo/LibO code base and embed ads and search links, make it available freely and brand it Google Office. Given their brand strength and marketing, that would probably do more to frighten MS than anything we can do. Slightly surprised they haven't already done it. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
