Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ

[Friedrich Strohmaier]

Hi NoOp, *,

NoOp schrieb:

> On 05/24/2011 11:43 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote:
>> 2011/5/25 NoOp  :

>>> Is there one?

>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/
>>> doesn't show or refer to one.

>> The german wiki page
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/de has some
>> additions and links for that. Maybe somebody should translate that
>> to the english page.

> I suppose. But that page is on
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ so even if
> translated and cleaned up wouldn't suffice.

But if done it wasn't that difficult to link to?

> The place for such a FAQ should be on
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ and apply to all
> locales.

In my opinion the place of such a FAQ should be at a place easy to find
and to point at..

> And then once finalised/finalized should be posted in each mail list
> on a monthly basis so that list users are aware of
> etiquette/action/cooperation on the lists. This used to be common
> practice for mail lists in the past & helped resolve unnecessary posts
> regarding posting styles[1], etc.

The problem - as seen also in this thread[1] - is that people don't mind 
to
read just for reading and thus these pointers don't help much. Instead
they - or at least some - do if pointed there in case of ineffective
communication style.

[1]
As You might have noticed, about 8 weeks ago I added a new line at the
footer of each english language mailing list:

Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette

So it's easy for each mailing list member to point to suitable
information if needed. No research in bookmarks or web. Just look (and
point as I do here) at the footer of the mail.

I choose to create that wikipage because no one was able or willing to
show me a appropriate place to link to. The wikipage makes it easy for
everyone to put in suitable text or links to complete information and
makes it easy to link from anywhere to recent information as well.

Please forgive me the poor content. Feel free to rise information and
cultural level. ;o))

> It's pretty hard to condem someone for top-posting, going way of
> topic, discussing religion, et al if there isn't a FAQ or some form
> of common guideline for user behaviour in the mail lists.

Right - therefore my effort.

[..]

> That said, here is a question; how can a common user be expected to
> possibly find http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/
> to begin with?

Answer: Just point at the end of the mail and put the information You'd
expect at that target - done.

So: Good news. :o))

> I see no link on
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ do you?

maybe soon??

> [1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

.. missing up to now - coming soon??


Gruß/regards
-- 
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ

[Bernhard Dippold]

Hi NoOp, *

NoOp schrieb:

[...] that page is on
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ so even if
translated and cleaned up wouldn't suffice.

The place for such a FAQ should be on
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ and apply to all
locales. Suggestions:


[Technical guidelines - in particular]
http://www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.html


Friedrich Strohmaier already asked for someone to translate the German 
wiki page on netiquette (now part of the German mailing list wiki page) 
to English in order to link from every mail to the list:



Unfortunately he didn't get any positive reply...


[...]
That said, here is a question; how can a common user be expected to
possibly find http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ to
begin with? I see no link on
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ do you?


It takes two clicks on links in the first two lines of the webpages:
1. Click on "Local/Regional" in the first line of the page.
2. Click on "refer to the local and regional mailing lists table on our 
wiki" in the second line of the page.


With a larger screen you might read this line already at the bottom of 
your visible screen, so you could reach the wiki page already with one 
click.


But in general you're right: An average user will hardly read the text 
and might miss the link.


Would you please send a better proposal to the website list?

Or if you could put your proposal in the SilverStripe CMS (request for 
write access on the website list) and let it approve by a SilverStripe 
admin, it's integration would take even less time.


Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ

[Steve Edmonds]

On 2011-05-26 16:11, Jean Hollis Weber wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-05-26 at 15:35 +1200, Steve Edmonds wrote:
>   
>>   
>> A regular (monthly) post of the faq would be good.  In regards
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/
>> it may not be linked anywhere because it seems empty "There is currently
>> no text in this page."
>> steve
>>
>> 
> Remove the final / and the link works.
>   

Thanks, just clicked the link and didn't look.

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ

[Jean Hollis Weber]

On Thu, 2011-05-26 at 15:35 +1200, Steve Edmonds wrote:
>   
> A regular (monthly) post of the faq would be good.  In regards
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/
> it may not be linked anywhere because it seems empty "There is currently
> no text in this page."
> steve
> 

Remove the final / and the link works.



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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Mailing List FAQ

[Steve Edmonds]

On 2011-05-26 15:15, NoOp wrote:
> On 05/24/2011 11:43 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2011/5/25 NoOp :
>> 
>>> Is there one?
>>>
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/
>>> doesn't show or refer to one.
>>>
>>>   
>> The german wiki page
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/de has some
>> additions and links for that. Maybe somebody should translate that to
>> the english page.
>>
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> 
> I suppose. But that page is on
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ so even if
> translated and cleaned up wouldn't suffice.
>
> The place for such a FAQ should be on
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ and apply to all
> locales. Suggestions:
> 
> 
> [Technical guidelines - in particular]
> http://www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.html
>
> And then once finalised/finalized should be posted in each mail list on
> a monthly basis so that list users are aware of
> etiquette/action/cooperation on the lists. This used to be common
> practice for mail lists in the past & helped resolve unnecessary posts
> regarding posting styles[1], etc.
>
> It's pretty hard to condem someone for top-posting, going way of topic,
> discussing religion, et al if there isn't a FAQ or some form of common
> guideline for user behaviour in the mail lists. Nor can you chastise
> someone for posting in the developer list regarding a valid user concern
> simply because you are not a developer etc. Example:
>   If the developer list doesn't want common users posting what are
> considered valid user concerns (i.e., broken pre-release packages,
> failure to provide the same in packages that affect installed stable
> packages) without being insulted and chastised, then items like this
> should be included up front on the
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ page as well.
>
> That said, here is a question; how can a common user be expected to
> possibly find http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/ to
> begin with? I see no link on
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ do you?
>
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
>   
A regular (monthly) post of the faq would be good.  In regards
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Local_Mailing_Lists/
it may not be linked anywhere because it seems empty "There is currently
no text in this page."
steve

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