Re: [cp-discuss] Advices on instructing Git lesson without password

[Zac Painter]

Maxime,

There's an open issue on GitHub about this. I think it would be worth others 
commenting on it; personally I would be very happy to see more ssh taught in 
SWC workshops.

https://github.com/swcarpentry/git-novice/issues/778#issuecomment-801522054


Cheers,
Zac

Zachary W. Painter, MSLS, NREMT
Engineering Librarian, Stanford University
z...@stanford.edu  |  1.650.885.1793
https://orcid.org/-0002-4588-7843



From: Rohit Goswami 
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 13:30
To: discuss ; Maxime Boissonneault 

Subject: Re: [cp-discuss] Advices on instructing Git lesson without password


Hello,

Glad this came up. It is important to talk about. Personally though, I don't 
really see this as being an issue. We add key generation and authentication to 
the Setup instructions and keep chugging along. I don't think we explain 
packaging (CRAN / PyPI / Conda) either so it shouldn't be very different.

---

Rohit Goswami

On 3/24/21 8:07 PM, Maxime Boissonneault wrote:
Hi,

I don't know if everyone is aware, but starting on August 13, 2021, Github is 
no longer going to accept password authentications:

https://github.blog/2020-12-15-token-authentication-requirements-for-git-operations

This can prove a significant challenge in a teaching environment. I don't see 
myself explaining SSH keys or password managers or MFA in the context of 
teaching git.


Has anyone given some thoughts on this ?


Maxime Boissonneault


This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The Carpentries 
including community activities, upcoming events, and announcements. Some other 
lists you may also be interested in include discuss-hpc, discuss-r, and our 
local groups. Visit https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/ to learn more. All 
activity on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The Carpentries 
Code of Conduct found here: 
https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html

The Carpentries / discuss / see 
discussions + 
participants + 
delivery options 
Permalink

--
This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The Carpentries 
including community activities, upcoming events, and announcements.  Some other 
lists you may also be interested in include discuss-hpc, discuss-r, and  our 
local groups. Visit https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/ to learn more. All 
activity on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The Carpentries 
Code of Conduct found here: 
https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html

The Carpentries: discuss
Permalink: 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/T101ca604a0f953b0-M0627c469b58165f45b6ff932
Delivery options: https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription

Re: [cp-discuss] Advices on instructing Git lesson without password

[Rohit Goswami]

Hello,

Glad this came up. It is important to talk about. Personally though, I 
don't really see this as being an issue. We add key generation and 
authentication to the Setup instructions and keep chugging along. I 
don't think we explain packaging (CRAN / PyPI / Conda) either so it 
shouldn't be very different.


---

Rohit Goswami 

On 3/24/21 8:07 PM, Maxime Boissonneault wrote:

Hi,

I don't know if everyone is aware, but starting on August 13, 2021, 
Github is no longer going to accept password authentications:


https://github.blog/2020-12-15-token-authentication-requirements-for-git-operations 



This can prove a significant challenge in a teaching environment. I 
don't see myself explaining SSH keys or password managers or MFA in 
the context of teaching git.



Has anyone given some thoughts on this ?


Maxime Boissonneault


--
This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The 
Carpentries including community activities, upcoming events, and 
announcements.  Some other lists you may also be interested in include 
discuss-hpc, discuss-r, and  our local groups. Visit 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/ to learn more. All activity 
on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The Carpentries 
Code of Conduct found here: 
https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html


The Carpentries: discuss
Permalink: 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/T101ca604a0f953b0-M81ef7fe5ab9058a2618c0393
Delivery options: 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription


--
This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The Carpentries 
including community activities, upcoming events, and announcements.  Some other 
lists you may also be interested in include discuss-hpc, discuss-r, and  our 
local groups. Visit https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/ to learn more. All 
activity on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The Carpentries 
Code of Conduct found here: 
https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html

The Carpentries: discuss
Permalink: 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/T101ca604a0f953b0-M753ba86b53a4d423bb1f44dc
Delivery options: https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription

[cp-discuss] Advices on instructing Git lesson without password

[Maxime Boissonneault]

Hi,

I don't know if everyone is aware, but starting on August 13, 2021, 
Github is no longer going to accept password authentications:


https://github.blog/2020-12-15-token-authentication-requirements-for-git-operations

This can prove a significant challenge in a teaching environment. I 
don't see myself explaining SSH keys or password managers or MFA in the 
context of teaching git.



Has anyone given some thoughts on this ?


Maxime Boissonneault


--
This list is for the purpose of general discussion about The Carpentries 
including community activities, upcoming events, and announcements.  Some other 
lists you may also be interested in include discuss-hpc, discuss-r, and  our 
local groups. Visit https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/ to learn more. All 
activity on this and other Carpentries spaces should abide by The Carpentries 
Code of Conduct found here: 
https://docs.carpentries.org/topic_folders/policies/code-of-conduct.html

The Carpentries: discuss
Permalink: 
https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/T101ca604a0f953b0-M81ef7fe5ab9058a2618c0393
Delivery options: https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription

Re: [cp-discuss] Advices on instructing Git lesson online

[Hao Ye]

Hi all,

This has been a really interesting thread to lurk on, and I've enjoyed
hearing everyone's perspectives!

Tyson's comments about the list of commands overloading short-term memory
and the need for bigger-picture perspective really resonated with me. I
think it is *really* important to understand your workshop audience; e.g.
learners who are specializing in computational research and are starting
out will come in with some experience with command line and REPL
interfaces, and also be able to reinforce learning in daily practice later.
That is a very different audience than learners who are researchers in a
non-computational field and looking for a pathway into better data
practices, reproducibility, basic stats and data viz.

Onto the Git lesson, specifically, I think even a bigger-picture
perspective is needed for *how git fits into a project workflow*. I
struggle with capturing this effectively this in my own teaching of git in
a shorter-form workshop for a general audience, but I think Alice
Bartlett's slides on "Git for humans" -
https://speakerdeck.com/alicebartlett/git-for-humans - do a good job of
emphasizing that commits track the versions of a *whole project*. (The
simple text file example is good to demonstrate mechanisms, but it can also
leave one wondering why Git is preferred over a regular back-up / cloud
storage system.)

Back to understanding your audience, I think we should be more explicit in
regularly encouraging instructors to trim or add content as befits the
needs of their learners. I feel learners for the git lesson can often be
better served if it covers the basic concepts really well, introduces
GitHub Desktop as an interface, and stops there, rather than trying to
cover all the episodes for a group that just started with bash that day or
the day before.

Best,
--
Hao Ye
Reproducibility Librarian
University of Florida
(he/him/his)


On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 4:51 PM Inigo Aldazabal Mensa
 wrote:

> Ups, here go the sketches.
>
> Iñigo
>
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 21:15:15 +0100
> Inigo Aldazabal Mensa  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I still have to summarize my git online experience, which went smooth
> > enough, even if I will do important changes in the last part based in
> > this experience. I'll comment all this, but I'll do it in another
> > post, and not today. BTW, thanks all for the tips and advice, they all
> > where really useful.
> >
> > Now...
> >
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:38:09 -0400
> > Tyson Whitehead  wrote:
> >
> > > My personal thought, from watching people struggle in the SC git
> > > lessons years ago, is that people are just memorizing commands
> > > instead of learning the big picture that ties it all together.
> > >
> > > Without the bigger picture, they don't know how to deal with the
> > > situation that inevitably arises that they haven't been explicitly
> > > taught about. They also go glassy eyed about half-way through when
> > > the number of new commands exceeds their short-term memory limit.
> >
> > Regarding this "memory limit", I write the commands in the
> > black/whiteboard in a column as I introduce them, and also give
> > learners a printed cheat sheet to have at hand.
> >
> > > This xkcd comic summarizes it pretty succinctly
> > >
> > > https://xkcd.com/1597/
> > >
> > > Now I see more diagrams have been added to the official SC git
> > > lesson, so I expect things have improved from my past experience
> > > with students struggling, but I still think there is room for
> > > improvement. In particular, I would argue that the diagrams
> > > shouldn't be bonus addons to the material, but the central core of
> > > it. This is, the lesson needs to be inverted so that the diagrams
> > > become the core of the presentation and the commands the periphery.
> > >
> > > To this end, whenever I teach it, I always do it in terms of
> > > building up a single large-picture diagram that I keep in front of
> > > them at all times.
> >
> > Totally agree with the diagrams being central to explain the concepts,
> > and also that they should be "hand" drawn and build up as the
> > lesson goes. Exactly as you do in your videos below.
> >
> > >The idea being that
> > >
> > > - the focus and motivation is the operations as depicted in the
> > > diagram, giving the big picture of how it all fits together and
> > > natural motivating the next set of operations
> >
> > Yes!
> >
> > > - they aren't being distracted by, and having their memory
> > > overloaded by, trying to memorize all the commands and which does
> > > what as this is always in front of them annotated on the diagram
> >
> > As mentioned, for me the commands go up in a side column as they come,
> > always visible (in the in person workshop, that is). I do the same for
> > the bash lesson (there also for . .. ~ * ? etc) .
> >
> > Anyway, I 100% agree whit what you say, and since years I've been
> > building up a "big picture" diagram as I move, and referring to it all
> > the time. The diagrams always come