Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
Hi, a refreshing way to select charter members, in deed. Hope charter members spend some time to, 'read and vote'. May be a wake-up-call. Ravi Kumar On Monday, June 30, 2014 5:31 AM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote: On 06/30/2014 12:07 AM, Daniel Kastl wrote: >> >> 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This will >> be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed number of >> members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people from a list of >> 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. Ie, if we have a >> list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members to vote Yes or No >> against each candidate. Each candidate with greater than 50% of YES votes >> will be included as new charter members. >> >> > Well, I doubt some charter member would vote with "No" for candidates. > And what if you don't know a candidate well enough or not at all? > > So I'm not sure this is really a good idea. I believe the result will just > be that all candidates will be accepted ... as in previous years. > > Daniel > Perhaps we should ask for a minimum of Yes votes on each candidate before acceptance. A fixed percentage of the Charter Members maybe? Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote: > On 06/30/2014 12:07 AM, Daniel Kastl wrote: >>> >>> >>> 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This >>> will >>> be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed number of >>> members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people from a list of >>> 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. Ie, if we have a >>> list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members to vote Yes or No >>> against each candidate. Each candidate with greater than 50% of YES votes >>> will be included as new charter members. >>> >>> >> Well, I doubt some charter member would vote with "No" for candidates. >> And what if you don't know a candidate well enough or not at all? >> >> So I'm not sure this is really a good idea. I believe the result will just >> be that all candidates will be accepted ... as in previous years. >> >> Daniel >> > > Perhaps we should ask for a minimum of Yes votes on each candidate before > acceptance. A fixed percentage of the Charter Members maybe? If the goal is to have an inclusive charter membership, then some of these voting methods would potentially better accommodate all nominees based on an evaluation of http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process#Positive_Attributes. Even brought up that most OSGeo projects work on some form of consensus. 50%+ is nothing like consensus. I would support requiring much less opposition for approval. Perhaps no more than 5-10 "no" votes. For me, to vote "no" I will need to know the person very well and know that they lack all or most of these, http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process#Positive_Attributes or I will need to know that they actively think or behave counter to one or more of those characteristics. Angelos brought up the idea of a minimum level of support. That could be combined with a minimal level of opposition. I know that the process needs proceed soon. Eli > > Angelos > > -- > Angelos Tzotsos > Remote Sensing Laboratory > National Technical University of Athens > http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos > > > ___ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
On 06/30/2014 12:07 AM, Daniel Kastl wrote: 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This will be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed number of members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people from a list of 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. Ie, if we have a list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members to vote Yes or No against each candidate. Each candidate with greater than 50% of YES votes will be included as new charter members. Well, I doubt some charter member would vote with "No" for candidates. And what if you don't know a candidate well enough or not at all? So I'm not sure this is really a good idea. I believe the result will just be that all candidates will be accepted ... as in previous years. Daniel Perhaps we should ask for a minimum of Yes votes on each candidate before acceptance. A fixed percentage of the Charter Members maybe? Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
Le dimanche 29 juin 2014 22:39:42, Alex Mandel a écrit : > In general this sounds workable for this year. Nominations will no > longer compete against each other but only against the benchmark of what > makes a good member. > > The only reservation I have is on the 50% Yes/No, but maybe I just need > a clarification. > I see plenty of people potentially voting Yes/No/Abstain(just not > marking a particular candidate). So is 50% of the number of people who > picked Yes vs No or is 50% the total number of charter members or is 50% > the number of charter members who voted in the election? How this line > is calculated varies the number of required votes. FYI, only voting Yes > and skipping No give people about the same style of vote as the previous > method. Indeed this must be clarified. The voting system I'm familiar with doesn't count absention vote (it is like the voter was not in the set of allowed voters). So e.g. let's imagine we have 100 charter members that can vote. For nominee X, 45 vote yes, 20 vote no and 35 don't vote. The ratio of yes over the expressed votes would be 45 / (45 + 20) > 50 %. But I can also understand that we would want at least half of the potential voters to have voted yes (so here 50) A question is : does the voting system that had been identified can handle multiple referendum questions ? > > To me more than a few no votes for a person seems somewhat > controversial. At the same time we don't want to give veto power to > small groups of people. If a vote is close 50/49, do we really want to > allow someone in the 49 charter members clearly have a reason for > rejecting? I don't really have a suggestion at this time for what the > right way to solve this is. Most OSGeo process and projects are run by concensus. So a decision where half people disagree doesn't sound like a concensus, and I wouldn't be shoked that the nominee doesn't qualify then. However in practice I wouldn't expect a lot of no votes. I can see 3 cases : - you know the nominee and approve the nomination --> yes vote - you don't know him/her, but trust the person who has nominated him/her --> yes vote (or abstention) - you know the nominee and have strong reasons to reject his/her nomination -- > no vote So I anticipate that in practice all proposed nominees would be accepted, which is not necessarily a bad thing if we want to be more inclusive. Even -- Geospatial professional services http://even.rouault.free.fr/services.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
> > > 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This will > be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed number of > members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people from a list of > 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. Ie, if we have a > list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members to vote Yes or No > against each candidate. Each candidate with greater than 50% of YES votes > will be included as new charter members. > > Well, I doubt some charter member would vote with "No" for candidates. And what if you don't know a candidate well enough or not at all? So I'm not sure this is really a good idea. I believe the result will just be that all candidates will be accepted ... as in previous years. Daniel -- Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan eMail: daniel.ka...@georepublic.de Web: http://georepublic.info ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
In general this sounds workable for this year. Nominations will no longer compete against each other but only against the benchmark of what makes a good member. The only reservation I have is on the 50% Yes/No, but maybe I just need a clarification. I see plenty of people potentially voting Yes/No/Abstain(just not marking a particular candidate). So is 50% of the number of people who picked Yes vs No or is 50% the total number of charter members or is 50% the number of charter members who voted in the election? How this line is calculated varies the number of required votes. FYI, only voting Yes and skipping No give people about the same style of vote as the previous method. To me more than a few no votes for a person seems somewhat controversial. At the same time we don't want to give veto power to small groups of people. If a vote is close 50/49, do we really want to allow someone in the 49 charter members clearly have a reason for rejecting? I don't really have a suggestion at this time for what the right way to solve this is. Thanks, Alex On 06/29/2014 01:26 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote: > OSGeo board, > In the interests of making a decision such that Jorge Salinas (our CRO) > can move forward, I propose the following process be followed for voting > new charter members in 2014: > > 1. Charter member to nominate potential new charter member(s) (as before). > > 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This > will be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed > number of members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people > from a list of 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. > Ie, if we have a list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members > to vote Yes or No against each candidate. Each candidate with greater > than 50% of YES votes will be included as new charter members. > > 3. Charter members would be guided to select candidates who fit the > "Positive Attributes for Charter Members" as defined here: > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process#Positive_Attributes > > 4. There will be no limit to the number of new charter members who can > be selected. This will require an update of > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process > > 5. Note: This vote is being put to the board and not to charter members > as I don't wish to complicate this decision by adding a 2nd (positive) > idea for change. We can address getting charter members to vote on > issues as a separate motion. > > Board members, can you please all vote on above: > > +1 Cameron > > > > On 25/06/2014 9:31 pm, Cameron Shorter wrote: >> Following the community discussion, I further researched OSGeo's >> foundation documents, (in retrospect I should have done this earlier). >> >> Of particular relevance to current discussion is our ByLaws: >> >> http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/incorporation/bylaws.html >> /Section 7.1. Admission of [Charter] Members. An initial group of up >> to forty-five (45) persons shall be admitted as the initial [charter] >> members of the corporation upon the affirmative vote of the Board of >> Directors of the corporation. Thereafter, to be eligible for [charter] >> membership, a person must be nominated by an existing [charter] member >> of the corporation pursuant to a written document in such form as >> shall be adopted by the Board of Directors from time to time. The >> nomination must be included in a notice to the [charter] members at >> least ten (10) days in advance of the meeting at which the [charter] >> members will vote on the applicant's admission. Proposed [charter] >> members shall be admitted upon the affirmative vote of the members of >> the corporation./ >> >> This section implies that the proposal below of automatically >> accepting "Recognised OSGeo Community Leaders" is unconstitutional, as >> charter members need to be voted into the role by existing charter >> members. >> >> It also implies that while a separate paid membership category could >> be created, paid members would still need to be voted into a charter >> member role by existing charter members. >> >> The ByLaws don't mention limiting the number of new charter members. >> This criteria seems to have been introduced as a Membership Process by >> the 26th Board meeting: >> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process >> /The number of new members will be between 10% and one third of the >> existing charter membership count as decided by the board/. >> >> Such a statement created by the board, could be updated by the board, >> and as such the board could agree to accept an unlimited number of new >> charter members. >> >> So I'm now thinking that our election process can be simplified to: >> >> 1. Charter member to nominate potential new charter member(s) >> 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) against all nominated charter >> members >> A suitable criteria for determining whether a nominee qualifies is >> listed here: >> http://wiki.osgeo
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Proposed process for selecting OSGeo charter members
OSGeo board, In the interests of making a decision such that Jorge Salinas (our CRO) can move forward, I propose the following process be followed for voting new charter members in 2014: 1. Charter member to nominate potential new charter member(s) (as before). 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) nominated charter members. This will be different to prior years, as we previously voted in a fixed number of members for a larger selection pool. (eg vote in 20 people from a list of 30). For this year, I propose we have a "Yes/No" vote. Ie, if we have a list of 30 candidates, we will ask all charter members to vote Yes or No against each candidate. Each candidate with greater than 50% of YES votes will be included as new charter members. 3. Charter members would be guided to select candidates who fit the "Positive Attributes for Charter Members" as defined here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process#Positive_Attributes 4. There will be no limit to the number of new charter members who can be selected. This will require an update of http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process 5. Note: This vote is being put to the board and not to charter members as I don't wish to complicate this decision by adding a 2nd (positive) idea for change. We can address getting charter members to vote on issues as a separate motion. Board members, can you please all vote on above: +1 Cameron On 25/06/2014 9:31 pm, Cameron Shorter wrote: Following the community discussion, I further researched OSGeo's foundation documents, (in retrospect I should have done this earlier). Of particular relevance to current discussion is our ByLaws: http://www.osgeo.org/content/foundation/incorporation/bylaws.html /Section 7.1. Admission of [Charter] Members. An initial group of up to forty-five (45) persons shall be admitted as the initial [charter] members of the corporation upon the affirmative vote of the Board of Directors of the corporation. Thereafter, to be eligible for [charter] membership, a person must be nominated by an existing [charter] member of the corporation pursuant to a written document in such form as shall be adopted by the Board of Directors from time to time. The nomination must be included in a notice to the [charter] members at least ten (10) days in advance of the meeting at which the [charter] members will vote on the applicant's admission. Proposed [charter] members shall be admitted upon the affirmative vote of the members of the corporation./ This section implies that the proposal below of automatically accepting "Recognised OSGeo Community Leaders" is unconstitutional, as charter members need to be voted into the role by existing charter members. It also implies that while a separate paid membership category could be created, paid members would still need to be voted into a charter member role by existing charter members. The ByLaws don't mention limiting the number of new charter members. This criteria seems to have been introduced as a Membership Process by the 26th Board meeting: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process /The number of new members will be between 10% and one third of the existing charter membership count as decided by the board/. Such a statement created by the board, could be updated by the board, and as such the board could agree to accept an unlimited number of new charter members. So I'm now thinking that our election process can be simplified to: 1. Charter member to nominate potential new charter member(s) 2. Charter members then vote (in/out) against all nominated charter members A suitable criteria for determining whether a nominee qualifies is listed here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Membership_Process#Positive_Attributes 4. Nominees with a majority of votes are included as new Charter Members On 15/06/2014 9:52 am, Cameron Shorter wrote: Within 2 weeks we intend to start our annual process for selecting new OSGeo charter members. In previous years the Charter Member selection process has been a little contentious. We typically receive numerous nominations from high caliber members of our community, and insufficient positions to accept them all. This typically results in unnecessary disappointment and dissent. In response, the OSGeo board has agreed to trial tweaking the voting process. The aim is to automatically accept recognised OSGeo community leaders, while continuing with our existing process which attracts the many valuable community members who contribute in other ways. Community comments are encouraged, and will be considered over the next week. *Design guidelines:* * We want a process which is simple to understand and implement. * We want a process which encourages recognised OSGeo community leaders to become OSGeo charter members, while continuing to accept members from the many other valuable OSGeo roles. * We want a process which is difficult to abuse. * For the first iteratio
