RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Open Location Services

2009-11-03 Thread Picavet Vincent
Hi there,

 That said, the main theme of my enquiry still remains -- I 
 had never heard of packaging costs until now, and am 
 curious about quantifying them.

The term «packaging cost» is not really representative of the actual work it 
includes.
We are in fact speaking of code and project quality. In that sense, packaging 
cost are pareto's principle's 20% of a project. These 20% represent the work 
on the project which is never done for internal projects, as it takes a lot of 
time compared to what it's paying off. 

This may includes :
- technical documentation (as the project is internally developed, knowledge is 
available by asking individuals)
- end user documentation (sell training and expertise instead of writing 
non-paid end user documentation)
- code cleaning (while it's closed and intern, who cares about clean code ?)
- code documentation (ask your colleague if you want to know what «UGLY HACK» 
really means...)
- annoying little bug fixing (every team developer knows the non-documented 
workaround)
- setting up a dev environment (svn, ftp  stuff, managing rights, takes more 
effort for intern needs than an open dev env)
- setting up a project home website with basic information (never done for 
intern project if the product is not directly sold)
- setting up a support infrastructure and team (mailing list, specific persons 
in charge... done informally when intern)
- ...

If we were in an ideal world, all of this would be done for long even for small 
internal project. But in our real world, those points are often abandoned along 
the road of good intentions. It really depends on your internal project quality 
management. I've seen project with all the above done and well done, and other 
where none of it ever existed.

Successful Open Source projects however strongly need those points to be sure 
to gather a community of users, developers, and be able to reach a stable point 
where the project live by itself without perfusion. 

As to answer your specific questions :

 Imagine that I am a potential sponsor. You have developed magic
 software for your own company. A few users are expressing interest in
 that software. You write to the user list that you will put 
 that software into open source were your packaging costs 
 met. The following questions --
 
 1. How much are we talking about here?
 
To stay with pareto's principle, i'd say around 20% of the initial project's 
price. It depends on the current quality of the code and project management 
type and infrastructur though. The closer it is from the «opensource way» of 
doing thing, the less these cost will be.
 
 3. If no one comes up with the packaging costs, would you not 
 put it into open source, or would you still put it, but just 
 dump the code into sourceforge and let Darwin take care of it?

As far as a (my one at least) company is concerned, the idea is generally «open 
source quality software or don't», as bad code is bad image for the company. 
That said, there may sometimes be legal reason leading to open sourcing code 
without «packaging» it at all.

 4. If you do put it in open source without any packaging 
 costs being paid to you, would you be losing out on any 
 particular revenue other than the time spent to put it into 
 open source?

Time spent to put it into open source is time not spent on other profit-making 
project. Then other revenue can be lost due to the opensourcing itself of the 
project, but this is another subject.

As to answer to miles about FLOSS project typology, I fully agree with him. 
There also is the kind of project written by an individual on its spare time, 
with high-standard quality code and infrastructures, which evolves, grows and 
turns into a successful big opensource project. Well, I'm still looking for 
examples, but I'm sure we can find some :)

vincent
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RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] GIS_Libraries

2009-05-05 Thread Picavet Vincent
Hi,
Some more precision.
 
 Let's say ShapeLib is published under GPL (I don't know 
 whether or not it is; this is only for illustration purpose). 
 Let's say, MapServer utilizes ShapeLib, but doesn't modify 
 ShapeLib, but uses ShapeLib as is. Let's say, MapServer's 
 creator decides to make millions off of MapServer, Inc. He is 
 under no obligation to release the source code of MapServer, 
 but he is obligated to release the source code of ShapeLib, 
 which is no big deal, because the source code of ShapeLib is 
 already available to anyone.
 On the other hand, let's say, ShapeLib is modified to perform 
 better, or differently, for MapServer. Now, there is an 
 obligation to release the source code to the modified version 
 of ShapeLib no matter what the value of that value-added 
 might be. That is what the GPL obligates.
 MapServer itself is still governed by whatever license that 
 its creator decides to apply.

It depends what you call utilizes. If Mapserver links with the
ShapeLib library, the latter being under GPL licence, then its source
code has to be released. This is the contaminating part of GPL.
The situation you describe is true if ShapeLib is under LGPL. If it is
under GPL, everything linked to it must be under a GPL-compliant
licence.

As Daniel says, GPL code can not be embedded in or linked to a closed
source application. Period.

Please also note that the GPL licence does not prevent any commercial
usage of the software.

Hopes this helps to clarify things.
Vincent



 
 
  Also take into consideration development platform/language.
  My group (MapWindow project) has a number of people using 
 our GIS SDK 
  for commercial applications in the .NET platform. MapWindow is 
  licensed under MPL 1.1 which supports commercial usage.
  Dan
 
  On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Nenad Milasinovic 
  nenad.milasino...@zesium.com wrote:
 
  Hello,
 
  I am interested is there any reliable open source, LGPL 
 licensed GIS 
  SDK or library suited for building commercial, platform 
 independent 
  GIS application on top of it.
  I am also interested for commercial solutions but only as 
 SDK or library.
  I will appreciate any help.
 
  Best regards.
 
  --
  Nenad Milasinovic
  Software Development and Testing
 
  ---
 
  ZESIUM mobile d.o.o.
  Valentina Vodnika 8/9
  21000 Novi Sad
  Serbia
  Tel: +381 (0)21 472 15 48
  Fax: +381 (0)21 472 15 49
  Mob: +381 (0)61 231 41 20
  E-mail: nenad.milasino...@zesium.com
 
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 --
 Puneet Kishor http://www.punkish.org/
 Carbon Model http://carbonmodel.org/
 Charter Member, Open Source Geospatial Foundation 
 http://www.osgeo.org/ Science Commons Fellow, Geospatial Data 
 http://sciencecommons.org Nelson Institute, UW-Madison 
 http://www.nelson.wisc.edu/
 --
 -
 collaborate, communicate, compete
 ==
 =
 Sent from Madison, WI, United States
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