Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
Le Thursday 03 January 2008 02:27:56 Dr. Markus Lupp, vous avez écrit : > Paul Ramsey schrieb: > >> Also, wasn't there a FOSS4G presentation about > >> consulting as a way to further FOSS GIS development > >> and make a living at it as well? > > > > Bit of a myth, as far as I can tell. This open source technology > > wedge is still so small that the business opportunities remain > > relatively tiny, particularly in North America, where the technology > > base is so homogenous and the mental lock-in to a vendor-led mentality > > so strong. > > Not a myth in Europe (or to be more precise, at least in Germany). There > is a number of (growing) companies that have FOSS GIS consulting > business models and do pretty well. > > > Regards, > > Markus I agree with Markus, this is same in France, and a lot of people/companies are looking for OpenSource Products :) Have an happy new year, Y. -- Yves Jacolin --- http://softlibre.gloobe.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
Paul Ramsey schrieb: Also, wasn't there a FOSS4G presentation about consulting as a way to further FOSS GIS development and make a living at it as well? Bit of a myth, as far as I can tell. This open source technology wedge is still so small that the business opportunities remain relatively tiny, particularly in North America, where the technology base is so homogenous and the mental lock-in to a vendor-led mentality so strong. Not a myth in Europe (or to be more precise, at least in Germany). There is a number of (growing) companies that have FOSS GIS consulting business models and do pretty well. Regards, Markus -- Dr. Markus Lupp l a t / l o n GmbH Kupang-NTT Indonesia phone +62 (0)81 339 431666 http://www.lat-lon.de http://www.deegree.org -- ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Andrea Aime wrote: Despite that, user must first and foremost understand they are not the driver. ... unless they pony up with money and/or time. As Tim said, you are either a sink or a source. As an open source developer, I invest in you the user (in money and/or time) by providing documentation (as little as possible to optimize my time), answering your questions directly, and coding in an effort to create more sources that provide me with leverage. Everyone starts out as a sink. The project only grows by producing more sources than sinks. If you are identified as a sink with no hope of ever turning into a source, you will eventually be ignored. If you want to have a really successful open source experience, you must aspire to being a source as quickly as possible. As a source, you will receive differentially more investment (help, code, docs, and ideas) from other project principles than if your status as a source or sink is unclear. Use the (and be a) source Luke! Howard ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
Paul Ramsey ha scritto: You are thinking the developers are working for you, the user, but they aren't. They are working for themselves and their employers, and they have perfectly good reasons to keep working on what they want to work on. You, the freeloading user, are incidental to the process. I wouldn't be able to say it better. We open source developers do develop for the pleasure of developing in the first place. To "scratch an itch" they say. User come after that. This is not to say they are irrelevant, on the contrary. They provide feedback, useful insights, ideas, and not less important, a good user base is good for your karma and your pride too. Despite that, user must first and foremost understand they are not the driver. Pleasure in development, discovery, exploration, sharing experiences with other developers and so on, that's the driver. Merging with another community? It may work, provided the fun does not go away. If there is a split chance of turning that into a boring work, the merger likeliness is absolutely zero. Cheers Andrea ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
Well put Paul. A little harsh...but well put. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:41 AM To: PostGIS Users Discussion Cc: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic,but FOSS GIS clients... > I realize it ain't easy. But could consolidation > (future effort) make it easier? The only thing that can be consolidated is developer effort, and even where there are no programming language barriers (such as in the Java world) there are lots of countervailing reasons that make mergers impractical. "Everyone should drop their projects and work on uDig." But all the gvSIG developers are supported by funding from Spanish government that requires all the work be GPL; and they also prefer a pure Java implementation to the SWT/Eclipse implementation that uDig uses. And the OpenJUMP people have an existing rich set of editing tools that are not easily portable to the uDig application model. Are they going to throw away all their existing functionality to move to another platform? Why? OpenJUMP works fine for them. You are thinking the developers are working for you, the user, but they aren't. They are working for themselves and their employers, and they have perfectly good reasons to keep working on what they want to work on. You, the freeloading user, are incidental to the process. We, the developers and employers, are well aware of the strategic implications of choosing to join, or not join, a particular community, probably to a far finer degree than you, and don't worry -- we are looking after our interests. > What's Refractions' model? Paul? Presumably > Refractions is a for-profit entity and not an ESRI > Business Partner. Refractions seems to be quite > successful with PostGIS. PostGIS seems to be the de > facto FOSS spatial database extension, with PostgreSQL > being its host. Longer lead time, I know. Actually we have been an ESRI business partner in the past, and would not mind being so again. We do a large percentage of our revenue on projects that use ESRI, Oracle and other proprietary tools. PostGIS provides us with no direct revenue at all, nor does uDig. http://geotips.blogspot.com/2005/10/open-source-company-oxymoron.html > Does Refractions not implement the FOSS GIS products > they help develop for pay? Do they not, like Google > (although Google has endless capital), allow their > programmers to work, at least part-time, on FOSS GIS > products during work hours? To a degree, but relative to our overall revenue flow, not really. The pay-back on dollars spent on OSS development is much harder to put metrics around than the payback on things like direct sales effort, or proprietary software development. > Also, wasn't there a FOSS4G presentation about > consulting as a way to further FOSS GIS development > and make a living at it as well? Bit of a myth, as far as I can tell. This open source technology wedge is still so small that the business opportunities remain relatively tiny, particularly in North America, where the technology base is so homogenous and the mental lock-in to a vendor-led mentality so strong. > Is there a QGIS foundation? If not, could there be? > Should there be? No, there's an OSGeo foundation, of which QGIS is a member, that's good enough. Once it's a 5013c, US donors will even be able to get tax receipts for their donations to QGIS development, and write off the donations. P > ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] Re: [postgis-users] A bit off topic, but FOSS GIS clients...
I realize it ain't easy. But could consolidation (future effort) make it easier? The only thing that can be consolidated is developer effort, and even where there are no programming language barriers (such as in the Java world) there are lots of countervailing reasons that make mergers impractical. "Everyone should drop their projects and work on uDig." But all the gvSIG developers are supported by funding from Spanish government that requires all the work be GPL; and they also prefer a pure Java implementation to the SWT/Eclipse implementation that uDig uses. And the OpenJUMP people have an existing rich set of editing tools that are not easily portable to the uDig application model. Are they going to throw away all their existing functionality to move to another platform? Why? OpenJUMP works fine for them. You are thinking the developers are working for you, the user, but they aren't. They are working for themselves and their employers, and they have perfectly good reasons to keep working on what they want to work on. You, the freeloading user, are incidental to the process. We, the developers and employers, are well aware of the strategic implications of choosing to join, or not join, a particular community, probably to a far finer degree than you, and don't worry -- we are looking after our interests. What's Refractions' model? Paul? Presumably Refractions is a for-profit entity and not an ESRI Business Partner. Refractions seems to be quite successful with PostGIS. PostGIS seems to be the de facto FOSS spatial database extension, with PostgreSQL being its host. Longer lead time, I know. Actually we have been an ESRI business partner in the past, and would not mind being so again. We do a large percentage of our revenue on projects that use ESRI, Oracle and other proprietary tools. PostGIS provides us with no direct revenue at all, nor does uDig. http://geotips.blogspot.com/2005/10/open-source-company-oxymoron.html Does Refractions not implement the FOSS GIS products they help develop for pay? Do they not, like Google (although Google has endless capital), allow their programmers to work, at least part-time, on FOSS GIS products during work hours? To a degree, but relative to our overall revenue flow, not really. The pay-back on dollars spent on OSS development is much harder to put metrics around than the payback on things like direct sales effort, or proprietary software development. Also, wasn't there a FOSS4G presentation about consulting as a way to further FOSS GIS development and make a living at it as well? Bit of a myth, as far as I can tell. This open source technology wedge is still so small that the business opportunities remain relatively tiny, particularly in North America, where the technology base is so homogenous and the mental lock-in to a vendor-led mentality so strong. Is there a QGIS foundation? If not, could there be? Should there be? No, there's an OSGeo foundation, of which QGIS is a member, that's good enough. Once it's a 5013c, US donors will even be able to get tax receipts for their donations to QGIS development, and write off the donations. P ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
