Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Fascinating discussion - and quite encouraging to someone like me who is just moving into GIS and hoping to make good use of OS GIS tools in future. As a newbie to all of this technology, I'd go along with the general feeling that ESRI ArcMap is easier to get started with as an end user, and often far more sophisticated, than what I've seen of most OS GIS clients. But for that kind of money, I'd expect something pretty good. And proprietary systems are not always that great e.g. MapInfo seems to have better DB integration than Arc*, but its cartography tools are nowhere near as good, at least as far as I can tell. And my ArcDesktop client still falls over all the time, especially when I run it on Vista. From what I've seen on the server side, OS can give ESRI a run for its money, although integration still requires some work. But I don't see any real reason why I would want to use e.g. ArcSDE + SQLServer, for example, when I could use PostGIS and things like MapServer or GeoServer or Safe FME to help de-couple the database from my client software. Provided my client can talk to non-ESRI interfaces and I'm not already locked into Arc*, of course. And this old software lock-in approach still seems to dominate the world of ESRI, while much of the outside world is moving to de-coupled 3 tier apps. I guess I'd still want to be able to use big GIS clients like ArcMap for some work, but I'm not sure every GIS application really needs this kind of expensive artillery. Sometimes a nifty little web map will tell the customer all they need to know. The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...). The forums are a great source of expert help (thanks, guys!), and there are lots of tutorials scattered around the web, but sometimes it's a real relief for this newbie to relax into the warm bath of an ESRI Virtual Campus training course or even an old-fashioned paper manual (they're called books for you younger people out there). But what do I know? I'm only just starting my Open Source Career ;-)) Chris -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Your-open-source-career-tp16883152p17059421.html Sent from the OSGeo Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Landon Blake wrote: The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us like to write! Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL* Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers. I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ ) but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be addressed (you're right about that, Landon). Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly, later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have the reputation that they are very demanding. You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with some authors who claimed that writing their first book for Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-) I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included). 6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...). The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at my Quarterly overviews here: http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008month=4#806 The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies depending on many factors (time, location,...). I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the book using a link on my site. But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project. If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat. I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would like to persuade them that they should just start writing. I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm), Bruno Lowagie ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Hi, Don't forget that some people are not developers but are ready to write documentation (in my native langage for me ;) ). Open Source is not only for developers, but for everyone who want to share his works (software, documentation, ideas, etc.). [my life]That's why I am working on OSGeo-fr, translating news about soft release, translating documentation (GDAL-Og, ImageMagick) into French, writing documentation about OpenLayers or OGC standards, etc. [/my life] And I am not alone :) They/we just don't talk so much on mailing list (it's bad I know :D ). Best regards, Y. Le Monday 05 May 2008 17:13:01 Landon Blake, vous avez écrit : Bruno, You are the exception! I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back. iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of your work. Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task that you have accomplished! Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:04 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Landon Blake wrote: The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us like to write! Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL* Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers. I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ ) but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be addressed (you're right about that, Landon). Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly, later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have the reputation that they are very demanding. You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with some authors who claimed that writing their first book for Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-) I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included). 6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...). The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at my Quarterly overviews here: http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008month=4#806 The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies depending on many factors (time, location,...). I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the book using a link on my site. But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project. If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat. I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would like to persuade them that they should just start writing. I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm), Bruno Lowagie ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Yves Jacolin --- http://softlibre.gloobe.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush. We actually have a great bunch of translators for OpenJUMP, and one user that does nothing but work on documentation. (English is actually a second language for this user.) I meant to speak in a more general sense. I agree with the earlier poster, who mentioned that documentation for FOSS GIS is not always as pervasive as it is for the ESRI stuff. I think this was an accurate observation. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jacolin Yves Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:25 AM To: discuss@lists.osgeo.org Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Hi, Don't forget that some people are not developers but are ready to write documentation (in my native langage for me ;) ). Open Source is not only for developers, but for everyone who want to share his works (software, documentation, ideas, etc.). [my life]That's why I am working on OSGeo-fr, translating news about soft release, translating documentation (GDAL-Og, ImageMagick) into French, writing documentation about OpenLayers or OGC standards, etc. [/my life] And I am not alone :) They/we just don't talk so much on mailing list (it's bad I know :D ). Best regards, Y. Le Monday 05 May 2008 17:13:01 Landon Blake, vous avez écrit : Bruno, You are the exception! I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back. iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of your work. Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task that you have accomplished! Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:04 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Landon Blake wrote: The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us like to write! Speak for yourself! ;-) Am I the exception to the rule? *LOL* Please don't regard the following as shameless promo. I just want to share a very interesting experience with future F/OSS writers. I'm an Open Source developer ( http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ ) but I also like to write. In 2004, I took some time off from my day job to write a free online tutorial for iText because the lack of proper documentation was a problem that had to be addressed (you're right about that, Landon). Once the first pages of the free tutorial were online, I immediately received an offer to write a book about iText, first from O'Reilly, later on also from Manning. After long consideration, I decided to try writing a book for Manning Publications Co. because they have the reputation that they are very demanding. You may think I'm a masochist, but I thought that would be the best guarantee to write a good book. And it was! I talked with some authors who claimed that writing their first book for Manning was a good choice. In hindsight, I agree, although I might choose for O'Reilly next time ;-) I spent 3 months writing the book proposal (full TOC included). 6 months writing the manuscript. After these 9 months of hard labor, another 9 months were needed to get the book ready for production (copy editing, proof reading, making the index,...). The result is: http://www.1t3xt.com/docs/book.php Want to know how much I earned? No problem! Have a look at my Quarterly overviews here: http://www.lowagie.com/maand.php?year=2008month=4#806 The revenue listed is limited to the Royalties. You don't get rich from writing a book, but I also have indirect revenue from sales (when people buy the book after clicking a link on my site). I get 10% Royalties and if you study the Quarterly Overviews, you'll see that the sum I get for each book varies depending on many factors (time, location,...). I get between 5% (Amazon) and 15% (Manning) for selling the book using a link on my site. But it's not only about the money: the product has gotten much more attention and it has really boomed! Having a book is (almost) a guarantee for success for every F/OSS project. If you are planning to write a book, and you want an introduction at Manning Publications; or if you just want to talk about starting such a venture, let me know, and we'll chat. I know plenty of people who dream of writing a book, how I would like to persuade them that they should just start writing. I like to quote Henry David Thoreau: If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them. best regards (and please pardon my enthousiasm), Bruno Lowagie ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Landon Blake wrote: The lack of good user documentation is a weakness of many open source projects. The problem is that most of us like to code, but few of us like to write! It is something that needs to be addressed, although I am unsure of the solution. Maybe we need to invent an IDE for user documentation. :] It sort of depends. One of the few ways open source developers get PAID for their work (unless their day job pays for their open source endeavors) is to write books about their software. Hence the plethora of books about Apache, various Linux and BSD varieties, and so forth - written by the major developers thereof. What, you expect high quality software, with high quality documentation, and support - with nobody getting paid anywhere along the line? -- Miles R. Fidelman, Director of Government Programs Traverse Technologies 145 Tremont Street, 3rd Floor Boston, MA 02111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-395-8254 www.traversetechnologies.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Bruno wrote: More specifically: I've been contacted by Dirk Frigne (geGIS / MAJAS) to solve the plot/print problem in the GIS world. That is very exciting! Please keep me posted. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruno Lowagie Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:28 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Landon Blake wrote: Bruno, You are the exception! I am familiar with your book, as I bought a copy about 4 months back. iText is a great open source library! Please accept my commendation of your work. What I didn't say is that I've started teaching iText, and while doing so, I have plenty of new ideas for writing an even better book (some of the examples in the book are too academic), but you are right: writing a book takes a lot of time. Having said that, I don't know that there are many of us that would have time to write a book on our favorite FOSS program. This is a great task that you have accomplished! By the way: I'm currently adding some new functionality to iText, but once I'm done with my TODO list, I'll be looking towards the GIS market. More specifically: I've been contacted by Dirk Frigne (geGIS / MAJAS) to solve the plot/print problem in the GIS world. That's why I was lurking on this list. To be continued... Bruno ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM, ChrisWebster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...). Just as hint (with links to Amazon, BarnesNoble, whatever): http://www.grassbook.org/ It was reprinted in April, so it should be available. In general I think that OSGeo should promote better their authors, we have this hidden Wiki template in the Library: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library#GFOSS_Books This should be prominently advertised on the mail site as OSGeo Bookshelf. Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Thanks, Markus. By the way, for anybody else looking of a fairly painless intro to FOSS GIS, I can heartily recommend Scott Davis's book GIS for web developers. It's aimed mainly at web mapping rather than heavy duty GIS, but it will get you started with PostGIS, GeoServer, GDAL, uDig, QGIS and several other bits and pieces. Well, it worked for me... Cheers, Chris Markus Neteler OSGeo wrote: On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:13 PM, ChrisWebster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... The biggest problem with OS - nobody seems to have mentioned it yet - is the lack of user-friendly or coherent documentation, even for mature tools like GRASS (yes, I know there's a GRASS book, but getting hold of it is like one of the more arduous treks in Lord Of The Rings...). Just as hint (with links to Amazon, BarnesNoble, whatever): http://www.grassbook.org/ It was reprinted in April, so it should be available. In general I think that OSGeo should promote better their authors, we have this hidden Wiki template in the Library: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library#GFOSS_Books This should be prominently advertised on the mail site as OSGeo Bookshelf. Markus ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Your-open-source-career-tp16883152p17065977.html Sent from the OSGeo Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
Tyler, You know I can't pass up an opportunity to talk about myself. :] I don't have much time because of an impending Friday deadline, but I will share a couple of thoughts with you. I could share more next week if you want. From my personal experience, skills as an open source programming can give employees a definite advantage in their career, especially in two types of organizations. The first type of organization is a small organization that can't afford the cost of proprietary software. This can be a huge cost, especially for software that is geared towards specialized professions, and not the mass of typical computer users. Employees with an open source skill set can offer solutions to this type of organization that wouldn't otherwise be possible. For example, we are able to use an enterprise database system and GIS software at my surveying and engineering company that are open source because of the skill set that a coworker and I have acquired, largely on our own time. This isn't software that my company would have purchased from a commercial vendor. The second type of organization is one in which a specialized trade or profession is practiced. These organizations are often not served by the out-of-the-box software that is suitable for more generic types of businesses. Any type of programming skills, including open source programming skills, enables an employee to develop custom solutions that assist their organization. These applications are generally better suited to the specialized tasks because they are written by an individual with a unique knowledge of the problem domain. This is not typically something you get from software developed by a third party. For example, I'm in the process of developing a tool that will process thousands of points collected during the course of a bathymetric survey, something we currently do in a spreadsheet. The tool, when completed, could save my company several man hours and hundreds of dollars on every bathymetric survey we perform. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:12 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Hi everyone, We've probably all heard of the typical business models for open source companies, but I'm working on a few slides for a presentation that highlight the benefit of open source for employees - and would love to hear from some of you. I have some personal examples where open source made me a more valuable employee, and how other colleagues who were into open source were considered invaluable. I also believe the many employers who value open source are able to attract talented staff that traditional or proprietary employers cannot. Do you have a story about how embracing open source geospatial applications helped broaden the opportunities for your future or helped you bust out of a mundane box? Maybe you learned on your own time and brought your new skills into the office? I'm particularly interested in your personal stories about how open source may have motivated you to grow, learn and extend your career or professional set of tools. Anyone want to share? Best wishes, Tyler ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:57 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Tyler, You know I can't pass up an opportunity to talk about myself. :] I don't have much time because of an impending Friday deadline, but I will share a couple of thoughts with you. I could share more next week if you want. From my personal experience, skills as an open source programming can give employees a definite advantage in their career, especially in two types of organizations. The first type of organization is a small organization that can't afford the cost of proprietary software. This can be a huge cost, especially for software that is geared towards specialized professions, and not the mass of typical computer users. Employees with an open source skill set can offer solutions to this type of organization that wouldn't otherwise be possible. For example, we are able to use an enterprise database system and GIS software at my surveying and engineering company that are open source because of the skill set that a coworker and I have acquired, largely on our own time. This isn't software that my company would have purchased from a commercial vendor. The second type of organization is one in which a specialized trade or profession is practiced. These organizations are often not served by the out-of-the-box software that is suitable for more generic types of businesses. Any type of programming skills, including open source programming skills, enables an employee to develop custom solutions that assist their organization. These applications are generally better suited to the specialized tasks because they are written by an individual with a unique knowledge of the problem domain. This is not typically something you get from software developed by a third party. For example, I'm in the process of developing a tool that will process thousands of points collected during the course of a bathymetric survey, something we currently do in a spreadsheet. The tool, when completed, could save my company several man hours and hundreds of dollars on every bathymetric survey we perform. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo) Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:12 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Your open source career Hi everyone, We've probably all heard of the typical business models for open source companies, but I'm working on a few slides for a presentation that highlight the benefit of open source for employees - and would love to hear from some of you. I have some personal examples where open source made me a more valuable employee, and how other colleagues who were into open source were considered invaluable. I also believe the many employers who value open source are able to attract talented staff that traditional or proprietary employers cannot. Do you have a story about how embracing open source geospatial applications helped broaden the opportunities for your future or helped you bust out of a mundane box? Maybe you learned on your own time and brought your new skills into the office? I'm particularly interested in your personal stories about how open source may have motivated you to grow, learn and extend your career or professional set of tools. Anyone want to share? Best wishes, Tyler ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
