Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Frank Warmerdam wrote: ... I am still not sure how to take the UbuntuGIS CD/DVD thing forward. I and Sarawut will willing to work on work-on this and hope others would join too. a) About what stack of software that could be offered, I think the initial stack that we have put up on the OSGeo wiki at http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G_Toolkit_for_Mandriva_2008 could be a fair start. b) about what is available and missing in DebianGIS and UnbutuGIS, we will try to find out and any feedback/info on this could be helpful. Hope we can have atleast the MandrivaGIS, DebianGIS, UnbuntuGIS CD/DVD available by the time we are at FOSS4G2008. Kind regards venka I'm not sure I have a lot to add to this thread, but it is a topic close to my heart, so I will chime in. I think Venka's idea of a standalone CD set for OSGeo software packages on Ubuntu is a great idea. I especially appreciate the fact that it builds on the existing great work of the DebianGIS team (ported to Ubuntu from the Debian source packages as I understand). I am sensitive to the issue that OSGeo can't very practically pick one Linux distribution and ignore all the rest. So I'm not sure that this effort will be the ultimate solution to OSGeo software for Linux, but it is practical and achievable in the short to medium term. Delivering a product CD based on Ubuntu builds on a popular distribution and is particularly sympatico with the conference given the south african origins of Ubuntu. It seems to me there are a few angles on which we can work this topic. 1) rough out a plan of the sort of stack of software we want to offer, potentially tied to the education material and use cases we are trying to support. 2) Review what is missing from this in DebianGIS and try to find volunteers to help the DebianGIS project package the appropriate software. There is a fair amount of expertise needed for Debian packaging (IMHO), but a few volunteers willing to invest 30-50 hours over the coming 6-7 months could make quite a difference. But we need to realize DebianGIS is a well established project with it's own culture and expectations and be prepared to work within this. It might be helpful for OSGeo to maintain a Debian system (as a VM or a whole blade) to provide a working and testing environment for folks who don't run Debian at home/work. 3) Find out what is needed to bring UbuntuGIS up to the appropriate packages. I don't know what people are involved in UbuntuGIS or how they operate. My understanding is that for major new Ubuntu releases the UbuntuGIS packages are built from the DebianGIS source packages. 4) Putting this together on CD/DVD is where the rubber hits the road. It would be great if Venka can lead this aspect, but I'm sure he would appreciate help. There is no reason that a first draft of this can't be prepared based on existing packages. One cool things is that Debian, and regular network based Ubuntu uses also all benefit from the upstream efforts. I love this sort of leverage! -- I'm not sure what OSGeo can do to facilitate this activity. We obviously can't direct volunteers, only encourage them. We don't have funding targeted for such an effort. However, if a modest amount of money could make a big difference I might be able to scare some up. I'm confident we can provide mailing lists, wiki space, server space, and bandwidth if these are helpful. I have cc:ed Frankie, the DebianGIS lead, in the hopes he could comment on how we can help support the DebianGIS effort. Best regards, ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Dear All, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote: ... We are now testing and re-building RPM for Mandriva 2008. I will put all info about this on wiki and inform on this list. I have created a wiki page below with info about Mandriva 2008 RPM packages. http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G_Toolkit_for_Mandriva_2008 Kind regards Venka ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Firman, can explain more about the LiveCD? me, personally, i try GG now, and hope can make a step by step instruction to start with' still far from livecd F ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
This would be a really good time for me to get updated Debian packages for JTS and OpenJUMP complete. I've been using Debian for a couple of years now, but I've never made a package for the operating system. I have done some reading on it. It is a little tricky for Java programs, especially one like OpenJUMP that depends on a set folder structure. But if we are putting together a CD of open source GIS packages for Ubuntu then I need to get my act together and work through the technical issues. At any rate, I'd be interested in helping prepare debs for OpenJUMP and JTS at a minimum, but I might be able to help with other FOSS GIS Java packages as well. I downloaded the old OpenJUMP package today. I'll see what I can learn from its structure this week. Landon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cameron Shorter Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:22 PM To: OSGeo Discussions Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education Frank, I wondered how long it would take to chime in. Frank and I have discussed this topic before and I promised him I'd write up my thoughts. This email thread has spurred me into action. My thoughts (most of which have been gleaned from my emails) are blogged at: http://techblog.terrapages.com/2007/10/path-to-ubiquitous-osgeo-software html Frank Warmerdam wrote: Folks, I'm not sure I have a lot to add to this thread, but it is a topic close to my heart, so I will chime in. I think Venka's idea of a standalone CD set for OSGeo software packages on Ubuntu is a great idea. I especially appreciate the fact that it builds on the existing great work of the DebianGIS team (ported to Ubuntu from the Debian source packages as I understand). I am sensitive to the issue that OSGeo can't very practically pick one Linux distribution and ignore all the rest. So I'm not sure that this effort will be the ultimate solution to OSGeo software for Linux, but it is practical and achievable in the short to medium term. Delivering a product CD based on Ubuntu builds on a popular distribution and is particularly sympatico with the conference given the south african origins of Ubuntu. It seems to me there are a few angles on which we can work this topic. 1) rough out a plan of the sort of stack of software we want to offer, potentially tied to the education material and use cases we are trying to support. 2) Review what is missing from this in DebianGIS and try to find volunteers to help the DebianGIS project package the appropriate software. There is a fair amount of expertise needed for Debian packaging (IMHO), but a few volunteers willing to invest 30-50 hours over the coming 6-7 months could make quite a difference. But we need to realize DebianGIS is a well established project with it's own culture and expectations and be prepared to work within this. It might be helpful for OSGeo to maintain a Debian system (as a VM or a whole blade) to provide a working and testing environment for folks who don't run Debian at home/work. 3) Find out what is needed to bring UbuntuGIS up to the appropriate packages. I don't know what people are involved in UbuntuGIS or how they operate. My understanding is that for major new Ubuntu releases the UbuntuGIS packages are built from the DebianGIS source packages. 4) Putting this together on CD/DVD is where the rubber hits the road. It would be great if Venka can lead this aspect, but I'm sure he would appreciate help. There is no reason that a first draft of this can't be prepared based on existing packages. One cool things is that Debian, and regular network based Ubuntu uses also all benefit from the upstream efforts. I love this sort of leverage! -- I'm not sure what OSGeo can do to facilitate this activity. We obviously can't direct volunteers, only encourage them. We don't have funding targeted for such an effort. However, if a modest amount of money could make a big difference I might be able to scare some up. I'm confident we can provide mailing lists, wiki space, server space, and bandwidth if these are helpful. I have cc:ed Frankie, the DebianGIS lead, in the hopes he could comment on how we can help support the DebianGIS effort. Best regards, -- Cameron Shorter Geospatial Systems Architect Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 Think Globally, Fix Locally Commercial Support for Geospatial Open Source Software http://www.lisasoft.com/LISAsoft/SupportedProducts.html ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Warning: Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Hello Frans, We have already make a remastered Ubuntu Live CD, DVD and ISO file that includes geospatial softwares like GRASS, PostGIS, QGis, Mapserver etc. for learning Remote Sensing and GIS Dept. Geodesy and Geomatics, Institut Teknologi Bandung, Indonesia. Just put the DVD on the computer, restart and you can learn FOSS GIS instantly. The ISO file can also be used with VirtualBox, if we don't want to install it in another partition. But still, the student seems to need a little bit of time to use it. It is different with proprietary softwares they've been using. The biggest problem in education is only a few people (teachers, professors, etc.) that encourage the use of free and open source software in education. -- Firman Hadi, Center for Remote Sensing - ITB Labtek IXC, 3rd Floor Jl. Ganesha No. 10 Bandung - INDONESIA http://crs.itb.ac.id Blog: http://jalmiburung.wordpress.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Hi Firman, Glad to know about FOSS4G activity at ITB. Maybe you happen to know Soni Darmawan too. He did som GRASS modules for our JICA training and was using Ubuntu Virtualbox. Think Soni is from ITB too. Happy to see all the recent activity on packaging OSGeo software stack. Venka Firman Hadi wrote: Hello Frans, We have already make a remastered Ubuntu Live CD, DVD and ISO file that includes geospatial softwares like GRASS, PostGIS, QGis, Mapserver etc. for learning Remote Sensing and GIS Dept. Geodesy and Geomatics, Institut Teknologi Bandung, Indonesia. Just put the DVD on the computer, restart and you can learn FOSS GIS instantly. The ISO file can also be used with VirtualBox, if we don't want to install it in another partition. But still, the student seems to need a little bit of time to use it. It is different with proprietary softwares they've been using. The biggest problem in education is only a few people (teachers, professors, etc.) that encourage the use of free and open source software in education. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
On 10/26/07, Gavin Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While Venka is on the topic of packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu, I'd like to put a niche request / challenge to the community. Gavin, our experience with Ubuntu training, you can ask Arnulf christi for the detail 1. we just need Ubuntu in client 2. mirror of ubuntu reposittory.. we here copy the repo to 7 DVD, and put in the centralized server 3. start training may be can help ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
While Venka is on the topic of packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu, I'd like to put a niche request / challenge to the community. High schools in South Africa and elsewhere need a FOSS alternative to use and teach GIS, which is a compulsory part of the syllabus from this year. FOSS GIS at present is too inaccessible. My challenge is to have a packaged CD for Ubuntu to launch at FOSS4G2008 in Cape Town. This CD (or DVD) would have: -one-click installation for Linux, Windows or Mac. -Integrated software stack so teachers and learners have to launch a minimal number of applications -Simplified and customised GUIs to lower the entry threshold. -for teachers to teach curriculum requirements of GIS -for teachers to use GIS to teach geography and other subjects -for learners to use for hands-on work -Free, integrated global and local data package -excellent documentation -framework for local contributors to structure and contribute exercises, lessons, etc. -central website for resources -possible advanced options for network deployment, more sophisticated users, 'computer studies' learners (i.e. developers), school web map services, etc. Any takers? Gavin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Venkatesh Raghavan Sent: 26 October 2007 05:19 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Cc: Sarawut Ninsawat Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Re: Matt Perry's post on Ubuntu/GIS has gaineda lot of attention Hi Hendra, We are starting to look into packaging OSGeo software stack for Ubuntu using the AptonCD packaging tool (http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/). We are in the process of learning to package software for Unbuntu. If any others are interested in working on this, we would be glad to join. Kind regards Venka .. Oops, looks like I've forgotten the urls =] Spatially Adjusted (James Fee): http://www.spatiallyadjusted.com/2007/10/22/create-gis-workstation-using -ubuntu-and-open-source-gis-software Matt Perry: http://www.perrygeo.net/wordpress/?p=10 And: BR-Linux =] http://br-linux.org/linux/configurando-um-ambiente-de-sistema-de-informa cao-geografica-com-o-ubuntu ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Hi Frans, Frans Thamura wrote: ... Gavin, our experience with Ubuntu training, you can ask Arnulf christi for the detail 1. we just need Ubuntu in client 2. mirror of ubuntu reposittory.. we here copy the repo to 7 DVD, and put in the centralized server 3. start training That would still require to network access. In the trainings that we give the particpants a set of CD will have the OS and OSGeo stack in them. The idea being that once the trainee returns home, he can make copies of CD and make use of the tools even if he/she does not have access to internet or the bandwidth's are narrow. Right now we do the packaging on Mandriva Linux, but are thinking of moving to Unbuntu. We prefer to use CD instead of DVD because many of the particpants do not have access to DVD reader in their home countries. Venka ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Jacolin Yves wrote: ... The Francophone LC try to run such a project but with francophone documentation, application in french, francophone data, etc. Someone (french) is working on a personal liveCD (GeoLive) and I think we will use it. I think it is Gerald Fenoy who is working on Geolive http://www.djayux.net/geolive/wiki/Downloads Of course other liveCD exists and are great as well: Omniverdi LiveCD, some LiveUsb, etc. Guess there must be some limitation on how much of the OSGeo stack we could pack in one LiveCD. I also read about ways of installing from LiveCD to HDD. I haven't used LiveCD much for training yet. It could be interestinig to get such an official project with the ability to change data, documentation and langage, i.e. I18n of the liveCD, easily. Heard that the Japanese version of Ominiverdi LiveCD is expected to be out soon. Nice challenge indeed, and the Francophone LC will be ready to produce data and documentation for this liveCD ;) Sounds good. Regards Venka ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
We prefer to use CD instead of DVD because many of the particpants do not have access to DVD reader in their home countries. I do agree, one solution we though with Luca was to create a liveCD for desktop applications and documentation and a server LiveCD with minimal or no X11 (graphic interface) to store data and offer Web Services for desktop clients. Luca is working acutally at the server edition. hope to offer something soon to play with. ciao Lorenzo ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu in education
Cameron analysis is clear and well centered to me. With others, we've started trying to do something in this direction since one year ago. it is clear to us that if we base the development of such a platform on volunteers, we will need a long time to succeed. lng time. If we want something for the next year, an investment in time and money is needed. I know geeks capable to do the technical part (see: Luca, Jachym and Frankie) but I don't know who's interested to invest enough money on such a project. with Luca, as a challenge, we've decided to make a donation program for our liveCd. In one year we've collected around 500€ (200 are mine) and we barely pay bandwidth, for the external host. This is just an example, we are not the only ones, but it's clear that without investments there will be poor future for such a thing. from the other side, downloads are growing continuously. try to search for GIS live Cd on google, and try to list projects that made more then one distro for longer then a year. Please, don't stop reading google list, go and see those pages, most of projects barely have a home page or are off since long. ciao Lorenzo Cameron Shorter wrote: Gavin, I think the time is ripe to consolidate upon this goal. I'd like to expand the goal a bit and then break it down into achievable steps. *The goal:* Powerful, Simple, Used, Integrated, Open Source Geospatial Applications *Current status* We already have powerful applications, but we still need geeks if you want to install and then use a full stack of OSGeo software. Our applications are often easy to install by themselves, but project release schedules are independent of each other and it is hard to keep up with which versions of software work with each other. Documentation and training material is still in an early phase. This material needs to be cross project, and matched to the software versions too. *Key Steps* *Set up project version dependency table* A table which lists for each project version, the other project versions it depends upon. This dependency table can be used by UbuntuGIS, DebianGIS, liveCD, a windows packager etc. For this we should be able to tap into expertise from liveCD and linux distribution communities. Once this dependency table exists, the onus on maintaining it will become the responsibility of projects (and become an entry criteria for OSGeo projects). For efficiency, it would probably help to set a release timetable for snap shots of the dependency list, which should be timed to link with with other distributions. *OSGeo Workshops Tutorials* * I see an immediate opportunity to present OSGeo Workshops at Geospatial Conferences. Agencies want to learn about OSGeo, and workshops are a great advertising tool for companies looking for OSGeo work. * Together we can collectively build some quality documentation here, and we have the resources (potential presenters) to develop the documentation. * These workshops require a stable set of software, so should be able to seed the dependency table as well. *Further documentation* Comprehensive documentation which has already started in the education committee should be able to tap into and get a boost from the workshops and tutorials. I'll let others comment on the path this should take. Gavin Fleming wrote: While Venka is on the topic of packaging FOSS GIS for Ubuntu, I'd like to put a niche request / challenge to the community. High schools in South Africa and elsewhere need a FOSS alternative to use and teach GIS, which is a compulsory part of the syllabus from this year. FOSS GIS at present is too inaccessible. My challenge is to have a packaged CD for Ubuntu to launch at FOSS4G2008 in Cape Town. This CD (or DVD) would have: -one-click installation for Linux, Windows or Mac. -Integrated software stack so teachers and learners have to launch a minimal number of applications -Simplified and customised GUIs to lower the entry threshold. -for teachers to teach curriculum requirements of GIS -for teachers to use GIS to teach geography and other subjects -for learners to use for hands-on work -Free, integrated global and local data package -excellent documentation -framework for local contributors to structure and contribute exercises, lessons, etc. -central website for resources -possible advanced options for network deployment, more sophisticated users, 'computer studies' learners (i.e. developers), school web map services, etc. Any takers? Gavin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
