Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
Bill Thoen wrote: Christopher Schmidt wrote: Er, that blog is written by Richard Fairhurst. http://www.systemeD.net/blog/about.html Oops! Sorry about that. Too many windows open at the same time, I guess I lost track. Probably explains the double post too. Thanks for catching that. Talking of the MultiMap patent and of this blog entry, after finding out about it earlier this year I had created a wiki page to collect information related to Web Mapping patents, and especially prior art: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Web_Mapping_Patents If you have any relevant information or pointers please don't hesitate to add them there. Daniel -- Daniel Morissette http://www.mapgears.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
I've seen legends similar to that before; afraid I can't offer anything solid in terms of prior art examples but it's hardly as revolutionary as they seem to think. Pretty absurd if you ask me; On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:34 AM, René A. Enguehard ahugen...@gmail.comwrote: I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn’t even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on the use of a north arrow and scale. At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf I couldn’t find the patent application, or I would have posted a link to it. Let me know if you have any comments. Landon *Warning: *Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
Well there are all kinds of nonsensical patents on the books but a lot of them are never enforced. I don't see how the web mapping patent would fulfill the non-obvious requirement- but there are a lot of stupid courts out there. - bri On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:14 AM, Bill Thoen bth...@gisnet.com wrote: You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with, though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people, there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying maps over the web. But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not, and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21, 2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68. If Microsoft really uses the Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy that it'll affect your web mapping business too. If reading that article brings your blood to a righteous boil, and you want to know more about who really invented web mapping, see Carl Reed's 2004 article, Intellectual Property, Patents, and Web Mapping: Historical Perspective at http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=28360. - Bill Thoen GISnet - www.gisnet.com Brian Russo wrote: I've seen legends similar to that before; afraid I can't offer anything solid in terms of prior art examples but it's hardly as revolutionary as they seem to think. Pretty absurd if you ask me; On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:34 AM, René A. Enguehard ahugen...@gmail.commailto: ahugen...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn’t even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on the use of a north arrow and scale. At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf I couldn’t find the patent application, or I would have posted a link to it. Let me know if you have any comments. Landon ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 08:14:10AM -0600, Bill Thoen wrote: You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with, though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people, there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying maps over the web. But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not, and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21, 2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68. If Microsoft really uses the Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy that it'll affect your web mapping business too. Er, that blog is written by Richard Fairhurst. http://www.systemeD.net/blog/about.html Regards, -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with, though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people, there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying maps over the web. But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not, and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21, 2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68. If Microsoft really uses the Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy that it'll affect your web mapping business too. If reading that article brings your blood to a righteous boil, and you want to know more about who really invented web mapping, see Carl Reed's 2004 article, Intellectual Property, Patents, and Web Mapping: Historical Perspective at http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=28360. - Bill Thoen And I believe there actually was a patent issued for René A. Enguehard wrote: I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn’t even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on the use of a north arrow and scale. At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf I couldn’t find the patent application, or I would have posted a link to it. Let me know if you have any comments. Landon *Warning: *Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
note While I have no absolutely no familiarity with the patent in question, something I've said here before perhaps bears occasional repeating: Patent and IP law is a very deep and complex subject. The vast majority of us laypersons are not qualified to read and evaluate patent claims; what is reported in the popular press is often a very watered-down or simplistic interpretation of what is actually being claimed. Some patent claims do indeed turn out to be riddled through with obvious prior art, but in order to really know that typically requires one to be experienced in the field of use *and* have thorough understanding of the legal language used in the claim constructions. By all means we should all continue to bring down bogus patent attempts, but we in doing so we all need to be careful of making any hasty or unfounded allegations. /note -mpg (ianal) -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto:discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Bill Thoen Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:14 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map. You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with, though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people, there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying maps over the web. But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not, and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21, 2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68. If Microsoft really uses the Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy that it'll affect your web mapping business too. If reading that article brings your blood to a righteous boil, and you want to know more about who really invented web mapping, see Carl Reed's 2004 article, Intellectual Property, Patents, and Web Mapping: Historical Perspective at http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=28360. - Bill Thoen GISnet - www.gisnet.com Brian Russo wrote: I've seen legends similar to that before; afraid I can't offer anything solid in terms of prior art examples but it's hardly as revolutionary as they seem to think. Pretty absurd if you ask me; On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:34 AM, René A. Enguehard ahugen...@gmail.com mailto:ahugen...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn't even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on the use of a north arrow and scale. At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf I couldn't find the patent application, or I would have posted a link to it. Let me know if you have any comments. Landon ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
Experienced web mapping experts that are also patent lawyers? Good luck finding one. (a) A patent may not be obtained though the invention is not identically disclosed or described as set forth in section 102http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode35/usc_sec_35_0102000-.htmlof this title, if the differences between the subject matter sought to be patented and the prior art are such that the subject matter as a whole would have been obvious at the time the invention was made to a person having ordinary skill in the art to which said subject matter pertains. Patentability shall not be negatived by the manner in which the invention was made. [1] It just says to a person having ordinary skill in the art. I don't believe the law is so foolish as to expect everyone to double-dip in their professions. 1. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_35_0103000-.html - bri On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Michael P. Gerlek m...@lizardtech.comwrote: note While I have no absolutely no familiarity with the patent in question, something I've said here before perhaps bears occasional repeating: Patent and IP law is a very deep and complex subject. The vast majority of us laypersons are not qualified to read and evaluate patent claims; what is reported in the popular press is often a very watered-down or simplistic interpretation of what is actually being claimed. Some patent claims do indeed turn out to be riddled through with obvious prior art, but in order to really know that typically requires one to be experienced in the field of use *and* have thorough understanding of the legal language used in the claim constructions. By all means we should all continue to bring down bogus patent attempts, but we in doing so we all need to be careful of making any hasty or unfounded allegations. /note -mpg (ianal) -Original Message- From: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [mailto: discuss-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Bill Thoen Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:14 AM To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map. You might be surprised what people might be able to get away with, though. There's been repeated attempts to patent web mapping for example, and if it wasn't for the efforts of a few dedicated people, there would now be patents in both Britain and the USA on displaying maps over the web. But the threat is not dead yet, believe it or not, and it may culminate in a battle between Microsoft and Google sometime in the near future. Check out Daniel Morissette's blog entry for Feb 21, 2009, Microsoft Patents the Map at http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=68. If Microsoft really uses the Multimap patent to put the bite on Google, then you can bet your bippy that it'll affect your web mapping business too. If reading that article brings your blood to a righteous boil, and you want to know more about who really invented web mapping, see Carl Reed's 2004 article, Intellectual Property, Patents, and Web Mapping: Historical Perspective at http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=28360. - Bill Thoen GISnet - www.gisnet.com Brian Russo wrote: I've seen legends similar to that before; afraid I can't offer anything solid in terms of prior art examples but it's hardly as revolutionary as they seem to think. Pretty absurd if you ask me; On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:34 AM, René A. Enguehard ahugen...@gmail.com mailto:ahugen...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn't even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
Christopher Schmidt wrote: Er, that blog is written by Richard Fairhurst. http://www.systemeD.net/blog/about.html Oops! Sorry about that. Too many windows open at the same time, I guess I lost track. Probably explains the double post too. Thanks for catching that. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Patent for feature of paper map.
I suspect they might be applying for the patent but in for quite a surprise when it gets rejected. Features for maps would be very tricky to patent and, more importantly, not in the interest of the general public. As such the patent applications would probably get rejected. Would we really want people patenting things like projections, north arrows, scale bars or legends? I don't think it would be productive and suspect any patent office in its right mind would see it the same way. Patents were created to help people protect their ideas for a length of time so they could reap the rewards of their work and refine it without fear of being copied or undercut. This works very well for many things but fails miserably for conceptual things like maps or layouts for books or posters. This is why many patent offices now require people to patent systems rather than things. I don't see how a wrap-around map could be explained as a system. René IANAL Landon Blake wrote: The latest issue of the ACSM Bulletin had an interesting article about a map matrix that wraps around the edge of a paper map. It seems the company that is using this feature of hard copy map design is applying for a patent. I didn’t even think you could get a patent a feature of a paper map. It got me wondering who holds the patent on the use of a north arrow and scale. At any rate, here is the article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.webmazine.org/issues/current/documents/wrap.pdf I couldn’t find the patent application, or I would have posted a link to it. Let me know if you have any comments. Landon *Warning: *Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
