Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
BJ can make thier cable with BNC at one end and RCA at the other. Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
Oh boy, BIG can of worms here, this is a large complex subject. I'll try and distill it into something short, unfortunately that means simplifications etc. Anyway this is all about what is called transmission line theory, how signals travel down whats called a transmission line, a coax cable is a transmission line (I'm NOT going to define a transmission line here, go look it up if you really want to know) The gist of all the math and books and books on the subject is that as long as the source impedance, the transmission line impedance and the load impedance are all the same, a pulse fed into the transmission line (TL) will come out the same as it went in, but diminished in amplitude. (note the actual value is not important, as long as they all match) If the impedances do NOT match strange things happen. The primary impact is that when a pulse hits an impedance mismatch some of the energy in the pulse gets reflected back the way it came. The pulse that continues on is diminished in amplitude (conservation of energy) and the reflection is opposite in polarity. An example, lets say a 1V positive going pulse hits the mismatch, lets say the mismatch is such that 50% keeps going and 50% gets reflected, thats a 0.7V positive going pulse continuing, and a negative going 0.7V pulse reflected back. If the source to TL impedance match is perfect nothing else happens, the reflected pulse gets absorbed. BUT if there is a mismatch at the source (such as when using a 75 ohm cable with RCAs at both ends), it gets reflected AGAIN. So now we have a positive going pulse of 0.5V going down the TL with a delay equal to twice the delay of the length of cable. When it hits the load mismatch it gets reflected again etc. So each original pulse results in a series of pulses with decreasing amplitudes showing up at the receiver. What happens at the receiver is very dependent on the cable length. A positive might hit a positive, increasing it's amplitude, a positive might hit the negative of another pulse, canceling it out, etc. etc. The result is that instead of a nice clean square wave you will get some very bizarre looking waveforms with a stair step looking profile. Changes in length of the cable can completely change the look of these waveforms. What is a poor receiver to do when it gets these massively messed up waveforms? Amazingly pretty good. Modern circuits can take this garbled looking mess and most of the time extract something usable out of it. BUT frequently the recovered signal can have some significant amount of extra jitter (with interesting spectrum) because of this. There is also a significantly strange pattern of noise injected into the power supply and ground plane for any real implementation of a receiver getting one of these signals. Note that the exact cable length and amount of the mismatch can significantly change what the signal looks like at the receiver. And to make it really fun, very few sources and receivers really are 75 ohms, it ranges from about 20 ohms to 120 ohms or so depending on exactly what parts are used and the precise details of the board layout. Only a very tiny percent of designs actually lay out the board calculating or measuring the impedances of the board traces. I frequently wind up laughing hysterically when I look at pictures of expensive designs and see how far off their board design really is. The upshot is there is no such thing as the "one best cable", it is a massive crap shoot. To a large extent it depends on how well a particular cable just happens to match the impedance of your source and receiver rather than any inherent "goodness" of the cable. Even with exactly the same cable changing the length by 2 inches can completely change the behavior. So what is a user supposed to do? The only real answer is hedge your bets as well as you can, use equipment with real 75 ohm connectors, use cables with real 75 ohm connectors, and then try lots of different cables from different manufacturers. This brings up the issue of expensive audiophile cables. Some of these may actually be slightly better cables than well made ones from say Blue Jeans, BUT you still have the crap shoot. Just buying an expensive cable is NOT going to guarantee it is a good match for YOUR system. A well matched $5 cable is going to sound better than a not so well matched $200 cable. You might get lucky and the $200 cable is the best match for your system, but it can get awfully expensive trying lots of different expensive cables to find the one that matches YOUR system the best. That is why MY approach is to try lots of different inexpensive cables of different lengths and stick with the one that sounds the best. Well actually my approach is to make everything myself so I KNOW it's well matched to begin with, but that's a little out of the realm of possibility for most people. So there you have it, far more than you ever wanted to know about transmission lines and digital audio. John S.
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
And if it does, is there a matching interface one should use to get the signal to our RCA inputs.? J jmschnur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
JohnSwenson wrote: > The S/PDIF spec says the connections should be 75 ohms, yet for some > unknowable reason they chose RCA jacks as the official hardware > interface for electrical S/PDIF which are in the 25 ohm range, a HUGE > mismatch in impedance terms. (why they didn't use type F connectors I'll > never know, they are cheap, and widely available). > > BNC connectors come in 75 ohms which IS correct for the spec. RCA to BNC > adpaqters and cables are readily available so I'm putting a 75 ohm > connector on the board so those that want to do it right and keep a true > 75 ohm match can do so. If I put an RCA jack on the board then nobody > can do it right even if they want to. > > John S. I knew there must be some techincal reason for the BNC choice. I did not know connectors have impedances that vary so much. My next question, does the impedance mismatch matter for a digital signal? Paul P Nelson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58158 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
pierreh wrote: > 75 ohms ? yep, correct. John Swenson already provided better info and more detail. And I do second his suggestion of blue jeans cable. I get most of my cables from there, including my BNC *75 ohm* cable! garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
P Nelson wrote: > The FAQ says the sdpof connector for digital out is a BNC. I thought > most equipment uses RCA for this connector? I hope someone makes a > reasonable priced converter as I want to avoid buying a custom cable. > > Paul The S/PDIF spec says the connections should be 75 ohms, yet for some unknowable reason they chose RCA jacks as the official hardware interface for electrical S/PDIF which are in the 25 ohm range, a HUGE mismatch in impedance terms. (why they didn't use type F connectors I'll never know, they are cheap, and widely available). BNC connectors come in 75 ohms which IS correct for the spec. RCA to BNC adpaqters and cables are readily available so I'm putting a 75 ohm connector on the board so those that want to do it right and keep a true 75 ohm match can do so. If I put an RCA jack on the board then nobody can do it right even if they want to. Unfortunately BNCs come in both 50 ohm and 75 ohm, 50 ohm being by far the most popular, so when buying a cable make SURE it is using 75 ohm BNC connectors. I did a sampling of 75 ohm cables with BNCs a few years ago and found that about 80% of them used 50 ohm connectors on their 75 ohm cables! So just because the it says its 75 ohm cable does NOT mean the connectors are truly 75 ohm. Blue Jeans cable sells some very nice cables that really do have true 75 ohm BNCs. As far as adapters go, most of what you will find are actually going to be 50 ohm BNC to RCA, but since the RCA is so far off who cares if the BNC is wrong. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Another Update for your favorite iOS Apps, iPeng and iPeng for iPad
Thank you. All working on the iPad again. Thanks again gary's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=269 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98615 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
pierreh wrote: > I just made a trial, but it can't work because the Touch and squeezelite > are on different subnets. > I'll install squeezelite on my NAS (which serves the Touch) and try > again. This should still work as long as both devices talk to the same instance of LMS - the actual control is of LMS which then controls the squeezelite player. Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Squeeze FAQ
Chunkywizard wrote: > Hi there, > > I have condensed the Community Squeeze threads into an FAQ to answer > some questions people might have who haven't read all the posting there > has been on the subject. If you find any omissions/errors/typos, please > let me know. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/jviweuxfhclckv6/Community%20Squeeze%20FAQs.pdf > > I'll do my best to keep this up to date as new information is posted, > > Regards > > Chunkywizard. Thanks very much. Great work and very helpful! Guido F. guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98653 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Pre-Announcement: ickStream Music Platform
Good point. Yes, we have one :) We should probably add it to one of the next blog posts. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98467 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
toby10 wrote: > I suppose so, I don't use software players. I'd guess it would work as > long as both players are connected to the same network and are both on > the same sever (LMS or MySB.com). I know it works the other way on some > (possibly all) software players where the software player is used to > control hardware players. I just made a trial, but it can't work because the Touch and squeezelite are on different subnets. I'll install squeezelite on my NAS (which serves the Touch) and try again. pierreh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56559 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Pre-Announcement: ickStream Music Platform
If you've got a block diagram overview of your system architecture, I'd love to see it. Unless, of course, you're doing something totally unobvious etc (you know the new-patent definition) and don't want to give that away. I'm guessing you've got it up on a whiteboard somewhere (photo would be great), or a diagram out of whatever presentation you've been using when talking with any possible hardware guys. bobkoure's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98467 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
pierreh wrote: > So, if I run squeezelite on some machine on my network, I can control it > form my Touch, right ? > I have to try that... Just tried this and it worked fine. Squeezelay on my Mac was controlled via the radio once you had set choose player to be Squeezeplay. HTH CW Chunkywizard's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
I suppose so, I don't use software players. I'd guess it would work as long as both players are connected to the same network and are both on the same sever (LMS or MySB.com). I know it works the other way on some (possibly all) software players where the software player is used to control hardware players. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
toby10 wrote: > My guess is this is referring to the feature already in the Touch and > Radio where you can control other SB players on your network. Basically > like the Duet Controller or (with limited features) like a smart phone > app to do the same. So, if I run squeezelite on some machine on my network, I can control it form my Touch, right ? I have to try that... pierreh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56559 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
Yep, that's my understanding. On my radio its under Settings: Choose Player CW Chunkywizard's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
pierreh wrote: > Thanks for your FAQ, it is really helpful. > > I have a question about item #34: > You say : "[...]you could use your Touch (you can point the Touch's user > interface at any Squeezebox player on your network)". > I don't know this feature. Are there instructions somewhere describing > how to use it ? My guess is this is referring to the feature already in the Touch and Radio where you can control other SB players on your network. Basically like the Duet Controller or (with limited features) like a smart phone app to do the same. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
garym wrote: > could be the most common. probably because cheaper. My Benchmark DAC > uses a BNC connector for S/PDIF. My (very limited) understanding is that > to match the ohms, etc. the BNC is closer to keeping the 50ohm > connection correct. 75 ohms ? pierreh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56559 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
Chunkywizard wrote: > So a preliminary version of my FAQ is here: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/jviweuxfhclckv6/Community%20Squeeze%20FAQs.pdf > > > I am waiting on a couple of clarifications so I'll update it as I get > them. If anyone has any suggestions/edits/ corrections then let me > know. > > CW Thanks for your FAQ, it is really helpful. I have a question about item #34: You say : "[...]you could use your Touch (you can point the Touch's user interface at any Squeezebox player on your network)". I don't know this feature. Are there instructions somewhere describing how to use it ? pierreh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56559 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
P Nelson wrote: > The FAQ says the sdpof connector for digital out is a BNC. I thought > most equipment uses RCA for this connector? I hope someone makes a > reasonable priced converter as I want to avoid buying a custom cable. > > Paul could be the most common. probably because cheaper. My Benchmark DAC uses a BNC connector for S/PDIF. My (very limited) understanding is that to match the ohms, etc. the BNC is closer to keeping the 50ohm connection correct. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
P Nelson wrote: > The FAQ says the sdpof connector for digital out is a BNC. I thought > most equipment uses RCA for this connector? I hope someone makes a > reasonable priced converter as I want to avoid buying a custom cable. > > Paul You can get a BNC male to RCA female adapter from Monoprice for about $1.00 Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2 tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
The FAQ says the sdpof connector for digital out is a BNC. I thought most equipment uses RCA for this connector? I hope someone makes a reasonable priced converter as I want to avoid buying a custom cable. Paul P Nelson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58158 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] How do you want to create/manage playlists ?
erland wrote: > > 1. What kind of device would you like to use when creating the playlists > ? > In order of preference: 1) A computer 2) A tablet 3) A smart phone erland wrote: > > 2. How do you decide what should be part of a playlist ? > By selecting the individual tracks you want to include erland wrote: > > 3. How do you decide which order the tracks should have in the playlist > ? > Random ordered tracks or Drag and drop tracks to put them into the right order erland wrote: > > 4. What's the most frustrating limitation with SBS/LMS playlist > management today ? > That it's too hard to create completely new playlists erland wrote: > > 5. What kind of device would you like to use when modifying existing > playlists ? > In order of preference: 1) A computer 2) A tablet 3) A smart phone erland wrote: > > 6. What kind of modifications do you usually do on already existing > playlists ? > Add new tracks, albums or artists to the playlist erland wrote: > > Is there anything else than the above you feel is important to take into > consideration if anyone would like to improve the playlist management ? elziko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94988 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sonos "PlayBar"...
Single optical only on the playbar. There is no analogue input. Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2 jimbobvfr400's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98096 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Squeeze FAQ
erland wrote: > Great work! > > Wouldn't it be better to have this on the wiki where everyone can help > maintaining it ? > > Or are we just waiting for Community Squeeze project to setup a separate > wiki ? Hi Erland, it can go wherever is best - here, wiki, communitysqueeze website etc. I guess it's up to the guys how they want to manage this. Regards CW Chunkywizard's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25868 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98653 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sonos "PlayBar"...
Stoker wrote: > A little off topic, but hopefully close enough to get a reply! > > Does anyone know of a sound bar type product, which could be used with a > sub-woofer to make a 2.1 sound system for the TV that also has a > bluetooth (A2DP, I think) input so you could pay music from you phone > through it as well? > > Cheers > --Ian Sonos have the wireless sub which obviously works well with the 'Sonos Playbar' (http://www.hifigear.co.uk/sonos-playbar-wireless-hifi-tv-soundbar.html) but is not compatible with bluetooth - there is a analogue audio input on the Playbar though, so you could connect your phone for audio via the headphone socket with a 3.5mm to 3.5mm stereo mini jack cable. honeymonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58939 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98096 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Funded Squeezebox Replacement - Would you be interested?
I have followed the associated threads from the beginning, but you sir have consolidated and ilucidated the subject matter wonderfully. Thanks for your input. Squeezed_Rotel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97881 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Community Squeeze FAQ
Great work! Wouldn't it be better to have this on the wiki where everyone can help maintaining it ? Or are we just waiting for Community Squeeze project to setup a separate wiki ? erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98653 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
