Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
Ben Sandee;472160 Wrote: On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Phil Leigh Phil.Leigh.401z8n1255534801 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com wrote: SteveEast;472135 Wrote: Strangely enough, it does happen - but it's the exception rather than the rule. The Oppo DVD players have always had excellent support with frequent firmware updates fixing bugs and adding features. Steve. But Oppo aren't Sony... Not only that, but they don't appear to have any community-driven forums or alternative support mechanisms... Ben This might qualify: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1124287 -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
Once a large number of bugs exist, a strategy can be used (or not) to resolve them unless resources exist to fix them all within a reasonable amount of time. It could be FIFO, ascending level of effort, squeaky wheel/vote, product centric (e.g.,fix all reported Duet issues) or focused on core functionality/features. I have listed these approaches in the reverse order of how I believe they impact customer perception of the software. A weighted approach could be taken such as 80% core functionality/ 20% low level of effort. If a bug sits unresolved long enough, it can be rationalized as unneccessary to fix because users have lived so long with it. When debugging a new release, goals can be set such as 70% of new bugs resolved prior to release or 100% of critical bugs resolved prior to release. If the 70% resolved are easy bugs or the critcal bugs are mis-characterised, well... Regression testing helps discover when fixing a bug has side effects. When a fix to a bug gives rise to another, the bug count does not diminish. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
WustrowO;471249 Wrote: You might prove for yourself, which bugs are bugs ;) But to get back to my suggestion: The listed problems did't exist with Squeezenetwork. You're probably right that it's more complicated to maintain 2 services. On the other hand, no problems would have emerged for the users of the old platform. But it's just a suggestion and it would have been even better to provide MySB without bugs. ;) This strikes me as a more of a business decision rather than a functional imperative. I don't understand why there needs to be 2 services instead of a single service that interfaces correctly with different revisons of the server and the client firmwares. There are tools and techiques available to aid the design challenge. But designing an agile service may be more upfront work than simply dumping the previous version. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
WustrowO;468680 Wrote: That's fine for you ;) My suggestion was quite simple. Build a new site for the new devices and keep the old site for the old devices for some time. The brave ones may switch to new early, the other ones migrate after the usual consolidation phase of a new site. I know it's too late now concerning the switch to MySB - but maybe it's an idea for future updates. It's reducing complexity... Would multiple websites actually be necessary or just one that recognizes and responds correctly to different software versions? -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
toby10;468735 Wrote: It does this now. MySB works fine with SC and SBS. As well as any players coming from SC and SBS, though you'll have to live with the FW Update loop for most players if doing this from SC. I should have added 'without pushing updates to clients'. In my definition pushing an update is not the 'correct' response of the website. The intent is for the web site to be designed to deal with each official release as-is. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
MrSinatra;467924 Wrote: people should be able to express their frustrations, and do so in a way that isn't rude, altho rude is rather subjective. having said that i generally like the direction logitech is taking everything, and i do think one day it will be tivo-ish simple to use for most folks. what i do wish however, is that they would stop rollout of new clients for a [good long] while. what they should do is consider making a SBS piece of hardware, (which would really be helpful for providing a SBS testing baseline/benchmark), and regardless of if they do that or not, concentrate on killing off all the bugs in bugzilla. i track many bugs in bugzilla and to me, its just ridiculous which ones get attention and which ones don't, even after years and years. the new client rollout for instance has delayed the new schema work which when finished will quash (hopefully) a HUGE number of bugs. a lot of the bugs speak to basic functionality, which is implied to be working by the UI, but which isn't. enough new clients, get back to the basics and fundamentals and work on registered bugs. Well stated. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Change for change's sake is bad
peterw;465554 Wrote: It is possible to configure your SC 7.3 instance to not force a player to downgrade firmware. I do this when testing new versions. I haven't tried running a Boom with 7.4 firmware against SC 7.3, but I do have a Classic running 7.4 firmware against a 7.3 SC instance (probably something like 7.3.1; I don't upgrade my production server to minor dot patch releases unless needed) and it seems to work fine. Logitech typically (though perhaps not always) forces the exact firmware match because it makes life easier on their support QA staff -- fewer variables to account for. Often newer firmware works fine with older SC software -- I've never seen a problem. Thanks PeterW. I suppose if I post enough questions I could become a valued senior member like pski. I just want the stuff to work without the need to research the effects of monolithic upgrades on 3 different products. The better solution is to put individual product update under user control. This could require changes to the server. It is probably hard-coded to specific dependencies. And it is better fix the what you have before upping the ante with new and probably buggy features. I still don't understand why they say this: Upgrade to 7.4.0 Required Required for SqueezeNetwork Users If you connect your players to SqueezeNetwork at any time, then you must upgrade to 7.4. when the firmware is switching all by itself. Apparently the firmware is pushed from the website when a user has not installed 7.4. Either I am missing something or the document linked below from which the above is copied is inaccurate and misleading. 'Must' is different than 'we recommend'. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes#Required_for_SqueezeNetwork_Users -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68521 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Why so many rude comments?
pablolie;465854 Wrote: I 200% agree. Support old revision for a while. Only force upgrades to utterly stable and tested and proven releases. By 'support' I hope you mean applying fixes (maintenance releases) to 7.3 for previously identified unresolved problems such as ghost alarms (Boom) and out-of-sync playlist artwork (Duet). -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68947 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Change for change's sake is bad
Email is fine for upgrade or new product announcements but don't clutter my Boom clock radios with it. Ever see a Boom go out of sync with its front panel or remote? You might be trying to adjust the volume but it appears not to respond. A minute later it is blasting at full volume because it queued up all the key presses. Last time I had this problem there were issues at the Logitech end. If there are problems on their network causing this type of degradation that impedes the operation of the player, I would like the front panel display to alert me so I can decide whether to alert Logitech or ride it out. Thats a useful notification. In a mixed system, I have diffrent expectation of a Boom than a Transporter or Duet. I want the Boom to function as basic internet radio that does not wake me up with the ghost of removed alarms. When my wife turns the volume knob, she expects the volume to increase (exactly then) And the players, I just want them to stream reliably. Are we there yet? Don't care about keeping up with the Joneses. Otherwise I prefer the upgrades and 'innovations' to be transparent to me. Why should my Boom self-update its firmware unless I ask it to or grant permission? The 7.4 document on the web site suggests it is necessary to upgrade to 7.4 to connect to your network but the Boom firmware self-updates and reverts when you switch back and forth between connection types in the presence of 7.3.3. So what exactly does 7.4 install package do for Boom beyond stopping the firmware swapping frenzy? If you want to make the Boom do something useful in response to connection status, why not have the Boom fall back to your network when SC is off or to SC when your network is degraded? Since there are no separate provisions for upgrading individual products, you are forcing users to upgrade them all at once. Upgrade to solve a problem in one unit (dismal Duet behavior) got me rebuffering issues on my Transporter. Perhaps a consumer should only own one type of Logitech product and then all would be well. It could all be explained in a Wiki. Guess Sean knew when to bail. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68521 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Change for change's sake is bad
pski;464006 Wrote: Hello Junior Member, This is a place of help, not a discussion of your employers products. Sorry you don't have anything to do. Where and who are you? What products do you own? How are you qualified to post here? Pski Senior Sage I own a Transporter, Duet and 3 Booms - my bad. I don't work for a competitor. I know a little about software design - MS. IMO, the fact that each of these products must be updated at the same time is not a good design - convenient for Logitech perhaps but not a good design. I also own a few products by OPPO Digital. They offer software updates. They are not perfect but their software process is a few notches above what I see here. They also have an active community but actually don't need it as much. Congratulations on your social promotion to Senior status. -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68521 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Change for change's sake is bad
whitman;463313 Wrote: Why? If you're producing a product like the Boom, there are competitor radio products that just require an internet connection to function. These competitors don't issue upgrades that brick working product. It should not be necessary to install an unwanted server to prevent a Boom from being impaired. http://standards.ieee.org/reading/ieee/std_public/description/se/982.1-1988_desc.html -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68521 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Album Art Disappearing
Most of my album art is no longer visible through the Nokia 770 skin or others that display artwork. Only the most recently ripped albums have visible artwork. OTOH, Moose has no obvious problem displaying the artwork. I first started noticing this running SqueezeCenter beta. I did not give it much thought because I had artwork problems with Slimserver but they usually resolved themselves with rescans. Now I am running SqueezCenter release. Any idea what is causing the album art to not be displayed? Thanks Bob -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44196 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Transporter capacitors fell out
Does any one know what function the capacitors designated C1 and C12 (at top of display board) perform? I needed to access the output attenuation jumpers and followed (or at least tried to) the instructions on page 23 of the manual. The problem is that the cover was very tight and was binding against the chassis as it moved and hard to keep level. After sliding it back I heard a rattle and open it up again. Capacitors C1 and C12 have detached. It appear they were attached to the display board via some type of press fit. The Transporter seems to behave normally (I don't use the knob). I am wondering if running it without these capacitors in place will lead to premature failure. Thanks Bob -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43246 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Transporter capacitors fell out
Thanks for the explaination Sean. That cover sure did not want to slide... Bob -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43246 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Transporter capacitors fell out
Thanks for the suggestion Mike. I suspect there are people here that can tell me precisely the impact of not having these caps installed and I would like that info. If the unit was dead it would be already on its way to be fixed. Bob -- DotSystem DotSystem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15213 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43246 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
