Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-04 Thread Vidur Apparao
I was able to recreate this on my 6.0.0 installation and found it was 
related to the problem detailed in 
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2005-April/047587.html. 
Could anyone who is seeing this problem confirm that it has been fixed 
in the latest 6.0.1 nightly 
(http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/6.0.1/)?

Thanks,
--Vidur
Matt Alioto wrote:
I've had it do similar while having wireless SB1 synced with SS2.
I think I just pressed play to get it going again but can't remember for
sure.  It did stop between tracks.
Don't let education interfere with your learning...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Still
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:01 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track
boundaries
Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
they're easier to keep on topic.
I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
until i hit pause.
Anyone else?
(BTW, i am very impressed by 6.0 generally - the search is vastly
improved and really quick)
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RE: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-04 Thread Matt Alioto
I've had it do similar while having wireless SB1 synced with SS2.
I think I just pressed play to get it going again but can't remember for
sure.  It did stop between tracks.

Don't let education interfere with your learning...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Still
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:01 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track
boundaries

Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
they're easier to keep on topic.

I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
until i hit pause.

Anyone else?

(BTW, i am very impressed by 6.0 generally - the search is vastly
improved and really quick)
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intended use of the addressee only; it may also be legally privileged and/or
price sensitive.  Notice is hereby given that any disclosure, use or copying 
of the information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited
and may be illegal.  If you have received this message in error, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail.  All e-mail sent to this 
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subjected to archiving and review by someone other than the recipient.

Acacia Pacific Holdings has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that
any attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses.  We accept no
liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses and
advise you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.

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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-03 Thread Marc Sherman
kdf wrote:
then someone with outlook can deal with it then :)
For future reference, kdf, just | the message to /usr/bin/uudecode. 
It'll take care of ignoring all the non-attachment text in the message 
itself.  It's the old-school unix way of doing attachments, back before 
all this newfangled mime stuff the kids are yapping about these days.

- Marc
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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Greg Friedman

"kdf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> browsing in the player UI should be state-sensitive by client.  It sounds 
> like
> your server is getting clients mixed up.  these should be uniquely 
> identified
> by MAC address, which I can see from your log are unique.  i can't say I 
> have
> any idea how this could be happening.

Well, it's definitely happening. I just confirmed that if I navigate both 
players up to the top menu, drill down into a specific artist on one, and 
then drill into artist on the other, it pre-selects the artist I navigated 
to in the first player. Each player side-effects the other this way - it's 
not unidirectional.

It may be relevant that one of my players used to have the name that the 
other player now has. When I went from one SB to two, I moved the player 
called "Family Room" into my home office and renamed it "Office". The new 
player went into the old player's location and got the name "Family Room". 
It is possible that, for a brief period of time, they were concurrently 
hooked up with the name "Family Room".

Is all state tracked by MAC address, or is there some state which is tracked 
by playername which gets mapped to a MAC address through a reverse lookup? 
For what it's worth, I looked at the HTML source of the player frame in the 
Fishbone skin and it looks like the correct MAC address is being used in all 
places for each of my players. I looked at both the "Office" and "Family 
Room" versions.

In a further attempt to investigate this, I "forgot" both players from the 
web UI, shut down the server, and manually deleted all of the device prefs 
from slimserver.pref (it appears that removing players from the UI doesn't 
actually delete player prefs from the prefs file). I restarted the server. 
Both devices were discovered and displayed in the Fishbone skin by IP 
address. I tried the navigation scenario, and the players continue to 
side-affect one another.

Please let me know what else I can do to help narrow this down.




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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread kdf
Quoting Greg Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> The skin is Fishbone, but I'm not convinced that a browser (or the Slim UI)
> has been up in all cases where the problem has happened. I run SS as a
> service on W2K3 and usually don't leave the UI up anywhere. It's possible,
> though.

right now, anything is possible.  Especially as I currently have 3 squezeboxen,
1 SB2 and a slimp3 all running with fishbone skin.  8 hours of an easter party
and I didn't see this particular problem.  As such, I'm just guessing as to a
cause.  the log you sent certainly confirms what you describe, but doesn't
actually show what is causing it.  using d_http, d_command might help get some
more hints as to the process going on when this happens


>
> I just moved from one SB to two, and I'm seeing a behavior I didn't expect
> and want to make sure it's not related to this problem. SS has always
> maintained some persistent state info that makes menu selections sticky. If
> I go from the top-level menu through Browse Music > Browse Artists, I'm
> taken directly back to the Artist item that I most recently navigated
> through. Are these sticky selections supposed to be global, or are they per
> device? I'm seeing them as global such that if I pick an artist on one SB
> and then navigate through the same menus on the other device, the first
> devices previous menu selections are showing up on the second. Is this by
> design?


browsing in the player UI should be state-sensitive by client.  It sounds like
your server is getting clients mixed up.  these should be uniquely identified
by MAC address, which I can see from your log are unique.  i can't say I have
any idea how this could be happening.

-kdf

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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Greg Friedman
"kdf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> many thanks :)
> deffo readable now.  I'm a bit surprised on this one.  it really does look 
> like
> the server is just jumping to a different player.  Which skin is being 
> used
> here?  Its a bit of a leap guess, but if a skin were to be refreshing at 
> the
> time of a song change, and passing the player object improperly at that 
> time,
> it could theoretically send the command to the 'default' player instead of 
> the
> intended one.

> for example, there was an issue (recently fixed) with the handheld skin 
> that
> would restart songs on a manual refresh of the page. I'm thinking this 
> could be
> caused by something similar.

The skin is Fishbone, but I'm not convinced that a browser (or the Slim UI) 
has been up in all cases where the problem has happened. I run SS as a 
service on W2K3 and usually don't leave the UI up anywhere. It's possible, 
though.

I just moved from one SB to two, and I'm seeing a behavior I didn't expect 
and want to make sure it's not related to this problem. SS has always 
maintained some persistent state info that makes menu selections sticky. If 
I go from the top-level menu through Browse Music > Browse Artists, I'm 
taken directly back to the Artist item that I most recently navigated 
through. Are these sticky selections supposed to be global, or are they per 
device? I'm seeing them as global such that if I pick an artist on one SB 
and then navigate through the same menus on the other device, the first 
devices previous menu selections are showing up on the second. Is this by 
design?




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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread kdf
Quoting Triode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Kdf - Does this help?

many thanks :)
deffo readable now.  I'm a bit surprised on this one.  it really does look like
the server is just jumping to a different player.  Which skin is being used
here?  Its a bit of a leap guess, but if a skin were to be refreshing at the
time of a song change, and passing the player object improperly at that time,
it could theoretically send the command to the 'default' player instead of the
intended one.

for example, there was an issue (recently fixed) with the handheld skin that
would restart songs on a manual refresh of the page. I'm thinking this could be
caused by something similar.

-kdf
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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Greg Friedman
"kdf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> it seems that your attachment has come through corrupted, so its not much 
> help
> yet :)

Huh. Looks like OE posted it as format=flowed with an inline encoded 
attachment. Your reader obviously can't decode it.

I've entered this as bug 1289:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1289



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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Triode
Kdf - Does this help?
- Original Message - 
From: "Greg Friedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries


I'm having the same problem as the original poster. In my case, it's 
happening on a SB2 with 6.0. It's stopping at the end of FLAC tracks. I also 
have an SB1 connected to the same server, but the two devices are not 
synced.

I've attached a d_source log. I believe that what I saw happen was as 
follows:

SB1: Manually paused in the middle of playing the album O Brother Where Art 
Thou for at least an hour.
SB2: Playing Diana Krall

SB2: Hits the end of the song Temptation and stops.
SB1: Wakes up and begins playing the next track on O Brother Where Art Thou. 
SB2 remains stopped.

Hope this helps...
Greg.

"kdf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Simon Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
they're easier to keep on topic.
I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
until i hit pause.
Anyone else?
I have, but those were a couple of monkeys' audio files running with the 
wrong
version of mac.exe under windows.

--d_source log?
are these mp3's or other formats?
-kdf 






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http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss2005-04-02 11:31:08.5545 Reduced chunksize to 2869 at end of file (25299765 - 25296896)
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5600 Reduced chunksize to 0 at end of file (25299765 - 25299765)
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5602 end of file or error on socket, opening next song, (song pos: 25299765(tell says: . 25299765), totalbytes: 25299765)
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5603 opening next song...
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5608 the next song is number 2, was 1
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5790 undermax = 1, type = flc, squeezebox2 = 00:04:20:05:a1:3d, lame = 
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5791 checking formats for: flc-flc-squeezebox2-00:04:20:05:a1:3d
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5792 Checking to see if flc-flc-squeezebox2-00:04:20:05:a1:3d is enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5792 There are 0 disabled formats...
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5793 Testing flc-flc-transcode-* vs flc-flc-squeezebox2-00:04:20:05:a1:3d
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5794enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5794 checking formats for: flc-flc-*-00:04:20:05:a1:3d
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5795 Checking to see if flc-flc-*-00:04:20:05:a1:3d is enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5795 There are 0 disabled formats...
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5796 Testing flc-flc-transcode-* vs flc-flc-*-00:04:20:05:a1:3d
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5796enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5797 checking formats for: flc-flc-squeezebox2-*
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5797 Checking to see if flc-flc-squeezebox2-* is enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5798 There are 0 disabled formats...
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5798 Testing flc-flc-transcode-* vs flc-flc-squeezebox2-*
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5799enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5799 checking formats for: flc-flc-*-*
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5800 Checking to see if flc-flc-*-* is enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5800 There are 0 disabled formats...
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5801 Testing flc-flc-transcode-* vs flc-flc-*-*
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5801enabled
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5802   Found command: -
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5803 Matched Format: flc Type: flc Command: - 
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5804 playing out before starting next song. (old format: flc, new: flc)
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5807 Backtrace:

  frame 0: Slim::Player::Source::playmode (/PerlApp/Slim/Player/Source.pm line 
835)
  frame 1: Slim::Player::Source::gotoNext (/PerlApp/Slim/Player/Source.pm line 
1794)
  frame 2: Slim::Player::Source::readNextChunk (/PerlApp/Slim/Player/Source.pm 
line 582)
  frame 3: Slim::Player::Source::nextChunk (/PerlApp/Slim/Web/HTTP.pm line 1244)
  frame 4: Slim::Web::HTTP::sendStreamingResponse 
(/PerlApp/Slim/Networking/Select.pm line 124)
  frame 5: Slim::Networking::Select::select (slimserver.pl line 606)
  frame 6: main::idle (slimserver.pl line 40)
  frame 7: PerlSvc::Startup (perlsvc line 1204)
  frame 8: PerlSvc::_startup (slimserver.pl line 0)
  frame 9: (eval) (slimserver.pl line 0)
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5808 00:04:20:05:a1:3d: Switching to mode playout-play from play
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5809 00:04:20:05:a1:3d New play mode: playout-play
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5822 00:04:20:05:a1:3d: Current playmode: playout-play
2005-04-02 11:31:08.5842 00:04:20:05:a1:3d: Can't opennext, returning no chunk.
2005-04-02 11:31:42.0854 00:04:20:05:a1:3d: Decoder underrun while this m

RE: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread kdf
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Came out fine for me - just looks like it's uuencoded or something. Outlook
> handled it with no problems.

then someone with outlook can deal with it then :)

-kdf
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RE: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread slim
Came out fine for me - just looks like it's uuencoded or something. Outlook
handled it with no problems. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kdf
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 3:12 PM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track
boundaries

Quoting Greg Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I'm having the same problem as the original poster. In my case, it's 
> happening on a SB2 with 6.0. It's stopping at the end of FLAC tracks. 
> I also have an SB1 connected to the same server, but the two devices 
> are not synced.
>
> I've attached a d_source log. I believe that what I saw happen was as
> follows:
>
> SB1: Manually paused in the middle of playing the album O Brother 
> Where Art Thou for at least an hour.
> SB2: Playing Diana Krall
>
> SB2: Hits the end of the song Temptation and stops.
> SB1: Wakes up and begins playing the next track on O Brother Where Art
Thou.
> SB2 remains stopped.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
>
> begin 666 SSLog.txt
> M,C P-2TP-"TP,B Q,3HS,3HP."XU-30U(%)E9'[EMAIL PROTECTED];FMS:7IE('1O
> M(#([EMAIL PROTECTED]@96YD(&]F(&9I;&[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED](U,CDY-S8U("T@,C4R.38X.38I#0HR
>

it seems that your attachment has come through corrupted, so its not much
help yet :)

-kdf
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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread kdf
Quoting Greg Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I'm having the same problem as the original poster. In my case, it's
> happening on a SB2 with 6.0. It's stopping at the end of FLAC tracks. I also
> have an SB1 connected to the same server, but the two devices are not
> synced.
>
> I've attached a d_source log. I believe that what I saw happen was as
> follows:
>
> SB1: Manually paused in the middle of playing the album O Brother Where Art
> Thou for at least an hour.
> SB2: Playing Diana Krall
>
> SB2: Hits the end of the song Temptation and stops.
> SB1: Wakes up and begins playing the next track on O Brother Where Art Thou.
> SB2 remains stopped.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
>
> begin 666 SSLog.txt
> M,C P-2TP-"TP,B Q,3HS,3HP."XU-30U(%)E9'[EMAIL PROTECTED];FMS:7IE('1O
> M(#([EMAIL PROTECTED]@96YD(&]F(&9I;&[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED](U,CDY-S8U("T@,C4R.38X.38I#0HR
>

it seems that your attachment has come through corrupted, so its not much help
yet :)

-kdf
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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Greg Friedman
I'm having the same problem as the original poster. In my case, it's 
happening on a SB2 with 6.0. It's stopping at the end of FLAC tracks. I also 
have an SB1 connected to the same server, but the two devices are not 
synced.

I've attached a d_source log. I believe that what I saw happen was as 
follows:

SB1: Manually paused in the middle of playing the album O Brother Where Art 
Thou for at least an hour.
SB2: Playing Diana Krall

SB2: Hits the end of the song Temptation and stops.
SB1: Wakes up and begins playing the next track on O Brother Where Art Thou. 
SB2 remains stopped.

Hope this helps...

Greg.



"kdf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Simon Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
> they're easier to keep on topic.
>
> I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
> will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
> hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
> track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
> until i hit pause.
>
> Anyone else?
>
I have, but those were a couple of monkeys' audio files running with the 
wrong
version of mac.exe under windows.

--d_source log?
are these mp3's or other formats?

-kdf 


begin 666 SSLog.txt
M,C P-2TP-"TP,B Q,3HS,3HP."XU-30U(%)E9'[EMAIL PROTECTED];FMS:7IE('1O
M(#([EMAIL PROTECTED]@96YD(&]F(&9I;&[EMAIL 
PROTECTED](U,CDY-S8U("T@,C4R.38X.38I#0HR
M,# U+3 T+3 R(#$Q.C,Q.C X+C4V,# @4F5D=6-E9"!C:'5N:W-I>[EMAIL PROTECTED]&\@
M,"!A="!E;F0@;[EMAIL PROTECTED] H,[EMAIL PROTECTED] R-3(Y.3" ](#$L('1Y<&4@/2!F;&,L('-Q=65E>F5B;[EMAIL PROTECTED](#T@,# Z,#0Z
M,C Z,#4Z83$Z,V0L(&QA;64@/2 -"C(P,#4M,#0M,#(@,3$Z,S$Z,[EMAIL PROTECTED]F5B;[EMAIL PROTECTED] P.C T.C(P
M.C U.F$Q.C-D(&ES(&5N86)L960-"C(P,#4M,#0M,#(@,3$Z,S$Z,[EMAIL PROTECTED]#(M,# Z,#0Z,C Z,#4Z83$Z,V0-"C(P,#4M
M,#0M,#(@,3$Z,S$Z,[EMAIL PROTECTED]#([EMAIL PROTECTED],C P-2TP-"TP,B Q,3HS,3HP
M."XU-SDY(" @(&5N86)L960-"C(P,#4M,#0M,#(@,3$Z,S$Z,[EMAIL PROTECTED]7!E
M.B!F;&,@0V]M;[EMAIL PROTECTED] -"C(P,#4M,#0M,#(@,3$Z,S$Z,[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]@P-"!P
M;&%Y:6YG(&]U="!B969O65R.CI3;W5R8V4Z
M.F=O=&].97AT("@O4&5R;$%P<"]3;&EM+U!L87EE65R.CI3;W5R8V4Z.G)E
M861.97AT0VAU;[EMAIL PROTECTED]"]097)L07!P+U-L:6TO4&QA>65R+U-O=7)C92YP;2!L
M:6YE(#4X,BD-"B @(&9R86UE(#,Z(%-L:6TZ.E!L87EE6]U="UP;&%Y#0HR,# U+3 T+3 R(#$Q
M.C,Q.C X+C4X,C(@,# Z,#0Z,C Z,#4Z83$Z,V0Z($-U6UO
M9&4Z('!L87EO=70M<&QA>0T*,C P-2TP-"TP,B Q,3HS,3HP."XU.#0R(# P
M.C T.C(P.C U.F$Q.C-D.B!#86XG="!O<&5N;F5X="P@6]U="UP;&%Y#0HR,# U+3 T+3 R(#$Q.C,Q.C0R+C [EMAIL PROTECTED]:VEP86AE
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Re: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread kdf
Quoting Simon Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
> they're easier to keep on topic.
>
> I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
> will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
> hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
> track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
> until i hit pause.
>
> Anyone else?
>
I have, but those were a couple of monkeys' audio files running with the wrong
version of mac.exe under windows.

--d_source log?
are these mp3's or other formats?

-kdf


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RE: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Chris Saunders
Is this during sync between the SB1 and SS2? I've seen similar in 6b3 and
haven't had a chance to give the final a good shakedown. But what I was
seeing was all sorts of problems (which I can further post as I revisit
Final 6) do to with Syncing between a Slimp3 and SS2.

ChriS

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Still
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:01 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: [slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
they're easier to keep on topic.

I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
until i hit pause.

Anyone else?

(BTW, i am very impressed by 6.0 generally - the search is vastly
improved and really quick)
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[slim] 6.0 problem - playlist stops frequently at track boundaries

2005-04-02 Thread Simon Still
Apologies for filling the list with individual issues but i figure
they're easier to keep on topic.

I'm getting frequent 'stops' using 6.0 whether on SS2 or SB1s.  Tracks
will play for a while and then the playlist will stop and i'll need to
hit pause to restart.  It always happens at a track boundary - eg
track 9 will end, the title of track 10 will show but it wont play
until i hit pause.

Anyone else?

(BTW, i am very impressed by 6.0 generally - the search is vastly
improved and really quick)
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