Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
Truly spectacular. -- mksimith2 mksimith2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29112 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
RK1313 As you say i do not want to call you a lier so here is what Sonos has to say about the track limits. Version 1.0 - 30,000 Version 1.1 - 30,000 Version 1.2 - 40,000 Version 1.3 - 40,000 Version 2.0 - 50,000 Version 2.1 - 50,000 So yes they can get UPTO 50,000 tracks but then they temper that with: The current limit is 50,000 tracks or filled RAM in the ZonePlayers -- whichever comes first. Long file names, track names, playlists, and composers use more RAM. If you can simplify your file names, you'll be able to squeeze in a few more tracks. Classical track names can be very long and ripping programs tend to throw the whole track name into the file name. By simplifying the track names, you'll free up more index space. Finally, you may have some seasonal music (Christmas, Easter, etc.) that does not need to be linked into the library all year. If you move each season's music into a separate share, only the currently linked shares will dig into the 50K limit. Also by reading through the forums many people are stating that they have hit the Memory limit with only 35,000 to 38,000 tracks and have minimal tagging as it is. To remove more tags looses searching capabilities and having to reduce the file name length should just not have to be done. There is enough to do just adding music to your system with out having to worry about the file name length. I surely know that I do not want to have to re-index my collection every time I want to listen to a to seasonal music. That requires that I split my music up and put it on different shares or folders. I just want to keep my collection in one place and have the ability to listen to Christmas Music in July if I want to. Schatzy -- schatzy Kitchen - SB3 - Russound R235LS Amp - Russound SP-M8IM speakers in ceiling Main Stereo - SB3 - Nikko Beta 30 Preamp - Nikko Alpha 230 Amplifier - Genesis VI Speakers schatzy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
Here's (one of several) thread on a similar topic - http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41118 Search on this forum and elsewhere for active speaker, which is a speaker (set) with amplifier built in (there has to be an amplifier somewhere!). You will also find many, many threads here on using a NAS (you will need to search for NAS*). Just remember that a NAS is really just an underpowered computer: it may be enough to run slimserver, it may not (and only some NASes are hackable to the extent that they will let you load your own software). See also the wiki for other discussion... http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BeginnersGuide HTH Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
blorty wrote: I'm looking at about 8 zones, some of which consist of in-ceiling speakers whose speaker wire runs back to central home theater panel in the family room. The other zones would simply be local bookshelf or outdoor speakers. OK. Are you looking to replicate that setup (all zones playing the same music) or do you want to be able to play different music in each zone? Here are some questions/concerns: Do I need to marry each SB receiver with an amplifier? Yes. Or, more correctly, you will need to have an amplifier (or powered speakers) for each zone. i.e. one Duet Receiver could send the same music to several zones That starts to seem more kludgy. Kludgy? What makes you think that? Doesn't the cost of an amplifier plus SB receiver start to equal the cost of a Sonos ZP100 zone player? Well, the ZP100 is $500, the Duet Receiver is $150, thus you have $350 to buy an amplifier. Now, depending on your needs, you could buy something small and discrete, or something much larger. Or you could even buy some powered speakers. What the heck is a powered speaker? Apologies for being dumb, but the only powered speakers I'm familiar with are sub-woofers and the speakers that you attach to a computer. Powered speakers are simply speakers that have an amplifier built-in to them. There are a couple of common types: - central low-frequency box + two satellite speakers (e.g. Aego M [1] - two full-range units (e.g. JBL LSR range [2] There are quite a few other options; the exampleS I've given are not particularly recommendations, although I have three sets of Aego M and they're very good. To provide audio to the various rooms with in-ceiling speakers, could I locate all the SB receivers in my family room and connect them through my receiver there? In that case, I suppose one couldn't watch TV in the family room while listening to music in another room whose speakers are powered by the family room receiver. Generally, you would need one pair of amplifier chanmnels per Duet Receiver, so it's not a great idea connecting all your speakers to one receiver (by which I presume you mean amplifier). Also, as you point out, if you use the same receiver to power your home cinema set up you would not be able to listen to music and watch TV at the same time. Listening to music without the computer on: I understand I can use the squeezenetwork to listen to Pandora, Internet radio, etc. without the computer on. But could I listen to my music collection on my NAS without the computer on? It seems like I would have to load my collection online to listen to music without the computer on. All the Slim Devices (now Logitech SMS) products need to be connected to a server to work. This can either be a locally installed SqueezeCenter or the remote SqueezeNetwork. So, you will need to have a computer on to listen to your music collection. It is possible to run SqueezeCenter on a NAS device, but that can be tricky - NAS devices are generally under-powered. Finally, what about the whole (draft) wireless N issue? Although debated hotly on the Sonos forums, there sure seems to be an issue with how well the Sonos system can co-exist with a wireless N system. Would the new SB family be at an advantage here? It seems to run wireless G, so perhaps this is just an issue with any wireless product today. Wireless G is a ratified standard; Wireless N is not finalised yet. Wireless G works just fine. Hope this was useful, R. [1] http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/Product_range/Aego_series/Aego_M.asp [2] http://www.jblpro.com/products/recordingbroadcast/index.html) ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
I run a belkin pre-N wireless network (before draft N). Wireless SB3s work just fine in that envirnment. The N standard is supposed to support G (and B, I believe) devices. -- dwilliams01 dwilliams01's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10988 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
blorty;255828 Wrote: nothing would please me more than to switch to a SB system at the last minute and teach the Sonos team a lesson about the importance of STAYING innovative with both hardware and software. Interesting comment. Lately I've been thinking just the opposite. I am long-time SD supporter who owns 6 units, but I am also desperate to retire the 250W PC that does nothing except power SlimServer 24/7. I've been secretly hoping SD would get it together by offering a low-power server appliance (i.e. a flash based koolu) that would do nothing except run their software and access my files from a low-power NAS. Thus, SD could control the hardware and controller which should allow for a stable user experience while I just bring my files to the party. Their latest gadget appears to reinforce the fundamental belief that the server should be provided and maintained by the user. Honestly, I'm tired of being a server admin for this stuff. I've got better things to do and I just want to listen to music without worrying about my electric bill or why the server stops streaming for no apparent reason. -- bishopdonmiguel bishopdonmiguel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=278 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
bishopdonmiguel wrote: blorty;255828 Wrote: nothing would please me more than to switch to a SB system at the last minute and teach the Sonos team a lesson about the importance of STAYING innovative with both hardware and software. Interesting comment. Lately I've been thinking just the opposite. I am long-time SD supporter who owns 6 units, but I am also desperate to retire the 250W PC that does nothing except power SlimServer 24/7. I've been secretly hoping SD would get it together by offering a low-power server appliance (i.e. a flash based koolu) that would do nothing except run their software and access my files from a low-power NAS. Thus, SD could control the hardware and controller which should allow for a stable user experience while I just bring my files to the party. Their latest gadget appears to reinforce the fundamental belief that the server should be provided and maintained by the user. Honestly, I'm tired of being a server admin for this stuff. I've got better things to do and I just want to listen to music without worrying about my electric bill or why the server stops streaming for no apparent reason. The appearance of Windows Home Server is a clue that more and more users are starting to understand that a server is a very sensible part of a modern household. I've been running one more or less non-stop since 1994, I don't think I ever had one consuming 250 Watts though. Maybe you should consider getting a less power hungry server. Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
blorty;255828 Wrote: To provide audio to the various rooms with in-ceiling speakers, could I locate all the SB receivers in my family room and connect them through my receiver there? In that case, I suppose one couldn't watch TV in the family room while listening to music in another room whose speakers are powered by the family room receiver. The load presented by so many speakers would be hard on the receiver. What you need there is something made for multi-zone audio like this 12 channel amp: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=309-172 In areas where you'll have bookshelf or other non-home run wired speakers the Sonic Impact amp would work well with a Squeezebox receiver: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-958 -- Skunk http://www.last.fm/user/TheSkunk/ Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
bishopdonmiguel;255989 Wrote: Interesting comment. Lately I've been thinking just the opposite. I am long-time SD supporter who owns 6 units, but I am also desperate to retire the 250W PC that does nothing except power SlimServer 24/7. I've been secretly hoping SD would get it together by offering a low-power server appliance (i.e. a flash based koolu) that would do nothing except run their software and access my files from a low-power NAS. Thus, SD could control the hardware and controller which should allow for a stable user experience while I just bring my files to the party. Their latest gadget appears to reinforce the fundamental belief that the server should be provided and maintained by the user. Honestly, I'm tired of being a server admin for this stuff. I've got better things to do and I just want to listen to music without worrying about my electric bill or why the server stops streaming for no apparent reason. There's a few options--one of the SD employees mentioned a FitPC next to his NAS (http://www.fit-pc.com/) which has enough horsepower to run SC 7.0, and at 5 watts really can't be beat on power consumption. SlimCD on a low power server of any kind, either with internal disks or mounting a NAS, would burn much less than a standard desktop PC. I recently upgraded from a Kuro Box HG to a custom server based on a JetWay Mini-ITX board, and 2x500GB hard drives. My whole network infrastructure (server, cable modem, router) pulls about 60 watts, and that's without optimizing the CPU which has lots of power management states. Some days I wish Slim Devices had a server appliance that would solve the problem that Sonos doesn't have to (but having not seen Sonos I don't know how easy or hard it is to get it configured, and after all it's basically running some sort of server somewhere, it's just hiding more.) It's certainly theoretically possible (a rebranded FitPC perhaps) but it isn't something that Slim or Logitech really have as a core business, so I see why they don't. Having said that, there's probably a 3rd party opportunity here. -- mrfantasy --Mike mrfantasy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1127 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
Peter;255998 Wrote: The appearance of Windows Home Server is a clue that more and more users are starting to understand that a server is a very sensible part of a modern household. I've been running one more or less non-stop since 1994, I don't think I ever had one consuming 250 Watts though. Maybe you should consider getting a less power hungry server. I've read that sales of Windows Home Server systems have been only moderately successful, which generally can be read to mean that sales have been disappointing. The trouble is that most consumers don't yet see a need for a home server. It's still very much a niche market being sold to those who already know they want a server and for whom the WHS appliances provide a simple entry point and familiar face. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
JJZolx wrote: Peter;255998 Wrote: The appearance of Windows Home Server is a clue that more and more users are starting to understand that a server is a very sensible part of a modern household. I've been running one more or less non-stop since 1994, I don't think I ever had one consuming 250 Watts though. Maybe you should consider getting a less power hungry server. I've read that sales of Windows Home Server systems have been only moderately successful, which generally can be read to mean that sales have been disappointing. The trouble is that most consumers don't yet see a need for a home server. It's still very much a niche market being sold to those who already know they want a server and for whom the WHS appliances provide a simple entry point and familiar face. Avalanches start with just a few snowflakes ;) Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
Blorty, Not sure what size your music collection is but be ware the Sonos can only handle less than 25,000 tracks. In fact even getting close to that say 23,500 tracks makes the Sonos database slow down to a crawl. Thus if you are using 5-6 rooms at one time and there is more than one track playing at a time you will be in trouble. Also i spoke with Sonos just a few months ago and they told me that There is no plan to increase the capacity for there database, and who has that much music anyway. Direct quote. Well that are many people that have that much or more music. My music collection is over 57,000 tracks, and I have heard of other people here on this forum with collections over 80,000 tracks that do not have a problem. I currently have 3 SB3's all running different music at one time off of a Mini iTX board with a Via C7 Processor @ 1GHz and 1 GB RAM. The processor only runs at about 17% this way so there is more than enough room to expand and have more SB's running with different music. As for Kluggy with and extra amp, i have heard the Sonos amps and although they sound OK you could get a much better sounding amp for the difference between the Sonos and the Squeeze Box Receiver. And really you only need one Remote unless you are going to be continuously playing different music in all rooms at the same time. Now look at the costs: Sonos / Slim Devices Controller $399.00 / Controller $299.00 Zone Player 80 $349.00 / SB Reciever $149.00 Zone player 100 $499.00 / SB 3 $299.00 Amplifier you have $200 or more for each zone to play with from the difference in cost. Music StorageYou already have it up and running if you already have a SB3 Oh by the way that is one less you have to buy for a room, so use that money for some other treat you might like to have. To me it's a no brainer. But that is just my 2 cents. I can't wait to get my hands on a Duet. Schatzy -- schatzy Kitchen - SB3 - Russound R235LS Amp - Russound SP-M8IM speakers in ceiling Main Stereo - SB3 - Nikko Beta 30 Preamp - Nikko Alpha 230 Amplifier - Genesis VI Speakers schatzy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
schatzy;256107 Wrote: Blorty, Not sure what size your music collection is but be ware the Sonos can only handle less than 25,000 tracks. In fact even getting close to that say 23,500 tracks makes the Sonos database slow down to a crawl. Thus if you are using 5-6 rooms at one time and there is more than one track playing at a time you will be in trouble. First post but a browser of the forums on a fairly regular basis. Not calling you a liar, but Sonos posts that their limit is 50k tracks and I have never heard of a problem playing to multiple rooms at the same time. I too am staring at both systems and browse both forums with some regularity. I'd like to hold the duet and try before I buy so to speak as I've used the Sonos at a Magnolia some time ago and it was quite nice. -RK -- RK1313 RK1313's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14915 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
RK1313;256230 Wrote: I too am staring at both systems and browse both forums with some regularity. I'd like to hold the duet and try before I buy so to speak as I've used the Sonos at a Magnolia some time ago and it was quite nice. Didn't you find the Sonos controller a bit sluggish? That was my first impression. Another nice advantage of the SB Controller is, as another forum participant mentioned, that it can be used one handed. And the Squeezebox gear is much more flexible. You can already read news, get weather conditions forecasts, and control lights with the Squeezebox Controller. -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ free plugins: http://www.tux.org/~peterw/#slim AllQuiet BlankSaver BottleRocket FuzzyTime SaverSwitcher SleepFade StatusFirst SyncOptions VolumeLock peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Down to the wire between SB Duet vs. Sonos
Ok, I need your help. I am installing my whole home audio system and have just ordered a complete Sonos system! There is still time though. I just heard the exciting news about the Duet. Frankly, after reading the press material and searching through a number of posts, I'm still confused about how exactly the SB Duet system stacks up against Sonos. I'm looking at about 8 zones, some of which consist of in-ceiling speakers whose speaker wire runs back to central home theater panel in the family room. The other zones would simply be local bookshelf or outdoor speakers. I would love to go with the SB family, because I feel it is much newer technology, comes with an awesome user group that will continue to press the envelope and seems less expensive. Plus I'm quite peeved with the fine folks at Sonos for not updating most of their (admittedly good) hardware for 3 or so years. It will kill me to plunk down my semi hard-earned money on a system that might be obsoleted within months. I currently own a wonderful SB3 and have been very happy with it for providing us with single zone audio (before we moved to a bigger place). Here are some questions/concerns: Do I need to marry each SB receiver with an amplifier? That starts to seem more kludgy. Doesn't the cost of an amplifier plus SB receiver start to equal the cost of a Sonos ZP100 zone player? What the heck is a powered speaker? Apologies for being dumb, but the only powered speakers I'm familiar with are sub-woofers and the speakers that you attach to a computer. To provide audio to the various rooms with in-ceiling speakers, could I locate all the SB receivers in my family room and connect them through my receiver there? In that case, I suppose one couldn't watch TV in the family room while listening to music in another room whose speakers are powered by the family room receiver. Listening to music without the computer on: I understand I can use the squeezenetwork to listen to Pandora, Internet radio, etc. without the computer on. But could I listen to my music collection on my NAS without the computer on? It seems like I would have to load my collection online to listen to music without the computer on. Finally, what about the whole (draft) wireless N issue? Although debated hotly on the Sonos forums, there sure seems to be an issue with how well the Sonos system can co-exist with a wireless N system. Would the new SB family be at an advantage here? It seems to run wireless G, so perhaps this is just an issue with any wireless product today. I hope I don't come across as a Sonos plant or something. Believe me, nothing would please me more than to switch to a SB system at the last minute and teach the Sonos team a lesson about the importance of STAYING innovative with both hardware and software. So any answers/insight you can provide related to the above is most appreciated! -- blorty blorty's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41911 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
