Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-06-30 Thread howie.stone

I thought I would add a note about how this resolved itself -- just for
the archive.

The heart of the problem in a way was the ipod touch -- which wasn't
good enough to pick up the wifi signals. In fact I now pick up  streams
, without any repeater, to about 100 feet away from the router, using a
Roberts internet radio (which plays streams of FLAC files). I needed to
install TVersity on my computer -- but it's easy to use and free. Either
the ipod is poor at picking up wifi or the Roberts Radio is excellent or
both.

Searching via the Roberts radio is fine.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-06-30 Thread pippin

The iPod is definitely poor at picking up signals.
I mean: Do you see an antenna in that device? A vertical one? At least
3 inches long? Without any connection to other metal parts (OK, without
more than one)? Bingo! The Antenna is behind a small patch at the back
of the device and you rarely hold an iPod in the right orientation (not
that it would help with an antenna of that form factor).
iPad is even worse.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-21 Thread bobkoure

TheLastMan;626625 Wrote: 
 Don't worry about health concerns, the regulations are in place to allow
 wi-fi networks to co-exist without interference rather than for any
 health reason.
I'm familiar with power laws and wasn't worried about health issues,
just clobbering your neighbors wifi.

If you can get reception indoors at a window that faces your garden,
then a repeater sounds like the cheapest / least intrusive solution -
or is there something I don't know about UK glass?


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-20 Thread TheLastMan

bobkoure;626549 Wrote: 
 I gather these are amps to boost past regulation power levels. There's
 no need for that for your usage. There's also the possibility that one
 of your neighbors is running one of these, killing your garden
 reception. BTW, if you do anything like that, -please- stay away from
 channel 6, as that's where most folks who haven't a clue are - they
 won't know what hit 'em.
Well that depends...

In the USA most houses are built with timber and plasterboard
(drywall). This is fairly transparent to wi-fi so US routers can
broadcast a signal easily beyond the boundaries of a house and, in that
case, a 500mw booster could well swamp the neighbours signal.

In the UK, most buildings are built with external walls either of solid
stone or brick (at least two bricks wide) or with a double skin, brick
on the outside and cinder block on the inside with a cavity usually
filled with insulation.  This is pretty well impermeable to wi-fi at
normal domestic router outputs and the only way a signal can get out of
the house any distance is via windows and wooden doors.  If the windows
are double glazed, even that can be tricky.

The result is that using a normal domestic router it is pretty
difficult to get a usable signal to extend beyond the external walls of
a house for any distance if the router is located centrally within it. 
Don't be fooled by the fact that you can see a multitude of wi-fi
networks in your area, all but your very closest neighbours networks
will be unusably weak.

Some older houses (such as mine) also have solid brick internal walls. 
This even makes getting a wi-fi signal from room to room pretty
difficult!  Solid walls and fitted carpets makes laying ethernet
problematic and disruptive. Hence a continual search in the UK for a
solution that will provide a LAN connection consistently around a
house. Multipath N routers are popular, but even these will struggle
to broadcast oustide the house.  Using PowerPlug devices on your
electrical circuits is growing in popularity, but older wiring and
modern circuit breaker technology can reduce the usefulness of that.

It is no wonder that some people resort to a booster to overcome the
physical barriers.  My friend uses a parabolic directional antenna in
the highest part of the loft pointing down through the house so leakage
outside the house is minimised.

Don't worry about health concerns, the regulations are in place to
allow wi-fi networks to co-exist without interference rather than for
any health reason.  Standing 2m from a 500mw boosted antenna would mean
that energy is spread over a roughly 50 square metre spherical surface,
or 10mw per square metre.  Put a wall or floor between you and the
antenna and energy levels are barely measurable. A modern GSM mobile
phone has an output power of at least 1w (1000mw) and you are usually a
lot closer to your mobile phone than you are to your WiFi antenna!

Using a single 500mw booster in your loft will subject you to a
massively lower radio energy level than you get from the 100mw wireless
antenna in the laptop you are using right now ;)


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-20 Thread Jaicee

Try the house I'm in at the moment. Not just solid brick between rooms
but 10+ of stone. Wifi can be hard to pickup 10 meters away from the
hotspot in a different room.

Strategically placed repeaters and POE are the only way to get a decent
signal throughout.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-20 Thread TheLastMan

Jaicee;626628 Wrote: 
 Try the house I'm in at the moment. Not just solid brick between rooms
 but 10+ of stone. Wifi can be hard to pickup 10 meters away from the
 hotspot in a different room.
 
 Strategically placed repeaters and POE are the only way to get a decent
 signal throughout.
Sounds like you have a real problem there.

By the way, POE is Power over Ethernet. That is the technique of
providing electrical power to network devices (WAP, router, switch)
using spare conductors in the ethernet cable rather than a separate
power cable.  Used most often in commercial buildings where WAPs are
located above ceilings and in walls where it can reduce cable clutter.

I think you mean HomePlug or Powerline networking which you could
abbreviate to EOP, ethernet over power ;)


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-20 Thread Jaicee

TheLastMan;626630 Wrote: 
 Sounds like you have a real problem there.
 
 By the way, POE is Power over Ethernet. That is the technique of
 providing electrical power to network devices (WAP, router, switch)
 using spare conductors in the ethernet cable rather than a separate
 power cable.  Used most often in commercial buildings where WAPs are
 located above ceilings and in walls where it can reduce cable clutter.
 
 I think you mean HomePlug or Powerline networking which you could
 abbreviate to EOP, ethernet over power ;)

Yes you're right, I got the acronym the wrong way round. I should know
better since I work in IT!


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread howie.stone

Jaicee;626294 Wrote: 
 The most reliable method would be to buy a Wireless Access Point from a
 computer store, place it near a window facing your garden and connect
 it to your existing BT modem with a long network cable. This will
 hopefully give you the range you need but the down side is you may need
 to run a long cable between rooms.
 
 Using the repeater option mentioned is also good and requires no cables
 between your router and the wireless access point but is a little more
 fiddly to setup and in my experience isn't quite as reliable as the
 first option. 
 
 You should be able to do both options yourself by following the manual
 that comes with the access point but if you can't you would need to get
 an IT guy to come out and sort it. It should take them 30 mins max to
 set it all up for you and check your radio can get a signal. It would
 be worth listing the model you wish to buy here first as most but not
 all support the repeater function.

That's clear. Thanks.

But how do I choose one? There are hundreds of these things! There
doesn't seem to be any objective measure of their strength or their
reliability.

It would be great if someone who has had positive experiences would
recommend one.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread bobkoure

There's little objective measure of strength because the power output is
regulated by, well, not law, exactly; here in the US it's regulated by,
FCC regulation.

If you have a techie friend, I'd suggest just getting one of the
routers that can have DD-WRT installed on it. I use an 'Asus WL-520'
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320023cm_re=dd-wrt-_-33-320-023-_-Product)as
a repeater and it's been flawless.

I'd also suggest newegg.com as a place to look at customer reviews,
which is about as close as you'll get to reliability ratings.

All that said, before you start looking at all this - how close are
your nearest neighbors? Could you be having an interference problem
with one of their routers? If that's a possibility (and if you can), it
might be worth changing the 'channel' that your router is using. If it's
like the US, it came set to 6. Try 1 or 11. It could be as simple as
that.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread TheLastMan

howie.stone;626339 Wrote: 
 That's clear. Thanks.
 It would be great if someone who has had positive experiences would
 recommend one.

Ahem...
...you might want to buy a G class WAP, or router acting as a WAP,
that has an external aerial, connect it with an Ethernet cable to your
BT  router - and then buy one of the following items:

http://www.wifi-antennas.co.uk/index.php?target=productsproduct_id=152

A friend tells me they work extremely well.

Mums the word guv... ;)


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread indifference_engine

howie.stone;625927 Wrote: 
 It would be so nice to be able to do this.
 
 The obvious answer -- ipeng and an ipod touch-- won't work because my
 wireless network isn't strong enough. That would have been ideal
 because ipod docs are easy to take outside.
 
 I could use ethernet to wire a link -- using the electricity circuit 
 to transmit the signal. I've never tried it but it should work. But --
 there's no ethernet plug on the ipod or the ipad -- nor, as far as I
 can tell, on any android kit.
 
 The garden is about 80 feet from the wireless router. 
 
 Help!!

An option that I use is to run Squeezeslave on my SBS server and
connect the soundcard output to an FM transmitter.  All you need in the
garden is a plain FM radio.  The sound quality isn't as good as with
wi-fi but that doesn't matter too much in the garden and I find I get a
very good range.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread Jaicee

howie.stone;626339 Wrote: 
 That's clear. Thanks.
 
 But how do I choose one? There are hundreds of these things! There
 doesn't seem to be any objective measure of their strength or their
 reliability.
 
 It would be great if someone who has had positive experiences would
 recommend one.

Something like this would work http://www.ebuyer.com/product/220595

The wireless N devices are faster and have better range than the B
or G ones and in particular look out for ones advertised as 300Mbps
rather than 150Mbps as these have 3 antenna rather than 2.

The routers with visible external antenna often allow those antenna to
be replaced with bigger perhaps directional antenna which might help if
your garden is very big but realistically if you can site the extender
at a window you shouldn't have range problems unless there are trees in
the way (leaves are great at soaking up wireless signals).


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-19 Thread bobkoure

TheLastMan;626406 Wrote: 
 ...and then buy one of the following items:
 http://www.wifi-antennas.co.uk/index.php?target=productsproduct_id=152
 A friend tells me they work extremely well.
 

I gather these are amps to boost past regulation power levels. There's
no need for that for your usage. There's also the possibility that one
of your neighbors is running one of these, killing your garden
reception. BTW, if you do anything like that, -please- stay away from
channel 6, as that's where most folks who haven't a clue are - they
won't know what hit 'em.

Personally, I'd first try changing channels, and if that didn't work,
spending the ~$35 on a dd-wrt box to use as a repeater. And if -that-
didn't work, I'd think about a directional antenna (replacement or a
reflector around the dipole that's already there. But I'd be amazed if
you needed this for your application.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-18 Thread esspwebmaster

it can be through wifi


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-18 Thread Jaicee

The most reliable method would be to buy a Wireless Access Point from a
computer store, place it near a window facing your garden and connect
it to your existing BT modem with a long network cable. This will
hopefully give you the range you need but the down side is you may need
to run a long cable between rooms.

Using the repeater option mentioned is also good and requires no cables
between your router and the wireless access point but is a little more
fiddly to setup and in my experience isn't quite as reliable as the
first option. 

You should be able to do both options yourself by following the manual
that comes with the access point but if you can't you would need to get
an IT guy to come out and sort it. It should take them 30 mins max to
set it all up for you and check your radio can get a signal. It would
be worth listing the model you wish to buy here first as most but not
all support the repeater function.


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[slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread howie.stone

It would be so nice to be able to do this.

The obvious answer -- ipeng and an ipod touch-- won't work because my
wireless network isn't strong enough. That would have been ideal
because ipod docs are easy to take outside.

I could use ethernet to wire a link -- using the electricity circuit 
to transmit the signal. I've never tried it but it should work. But --
there's no ethernet plug on the ipod or the ipad -- nor, as far as I
can tell, on any android kit.

The garden is about 80 feet from the wireless router. 

Help!!


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread andynormancx

Either move the wifi router closer to the garden or install a wifi
repeater closer to the garden.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread pippin

You could try an antenna booster (higher gain antenna) for the WiFi
router.
80 feet should be no distance for a WiFi network in an open area.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread toby10

I'd look into why your WiFi can't handle 80 feet.  My WiFi G does this
even through walls.
Google basic WiFi tweaks and there are many simple DIY tutorials to
get a better and more robust WiFi signal.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread howie.stone

I should have mentioned that I use a British Telecom Infinity Router --
I've heard it is one of the most powerful available in the UK. There is
no point where I can hook on an antenna -- as far as I can see antennas
need an slot to hook in coaxial cable. Shame that -- I had the idea of
using an antenna myself.

Has anyone got any experience of/ recommendations for repeaters?


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread Atlantic

howie.stone;625938 Wrote: 
 
 
 Has anyone got any experience of/ recommendations for repeaters?
 
 

I use the Edimax 7416APN 'range extender'.  It has removable antennae,
so you might be able to add, I think, an external antenna if you wanted
to do so.  In the box are a couple of screws to wall mount it.  It has a
plastic case, and a separate plug-top PSU, so is quite lightweight.  

It repeats a signal from a Linksys 'g' wireless AP.  I run a couple of
SBRs off it, in a very-solid-brick house where even the internal walls
are solid brick, so I needed a repeater.

I bought mine from Amazon but had to return it because it seemed to
overheat and the wireless would 'just stop'.  Amazon replaced it, and
the replacement has worked well.  There seem to be over 200 comments
about it on Amazon, so maybe there's some reading to do :)

regards
Atlantic


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread JJZolx

howie.stone;625938 Wrote: 
 I should have mentioned that I use a British Telecom Infinity Router --
 I've heard it is one of the most powerful available in the UK. There is
 no point where I can hook on an antenna -- as far as I can see antennas
 need an slot to hook in coaxial cable. Shame that -- I had the idea of
 using an antenna myself.
 
 Has anyone got any experience of/ recommendations for repeaters?
 
 The Infinity router doues have plenty of ethernet sockets and a USB

I assume you don't plan on placing that repeater between the current
router and the garden if that means placing it outdoors. So the
repeater would also be located in your house.

If you can run ethernet cabling to the point in your house where you'd
place the repeater, then you'd be better off with another router
instead, configured as an access point and operating on a different
wireless channel. Get one where you can replace the antenna with a
higher gain unit, just in case you need it to reach the garden.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread howie.stone

Atlantic;625946 Wrote: 
 I use the Edimax 7416APN 'range extender'.  It has removable antennae,
 so you might be able to add, I think, an external antenna if you wanted
 to do so.  In the box are a couple of screws to wall mount it.  It has a
 plastic case, and a separate plug-top PSU, so is quite lightweight.  
 
 It repeats a signal from a Linksys 'g' wireless AP.  I run a couple of
 SBRs off it, in a very-solid-brick house where even the internal walls
 are solid brick, so I needed a repeater.
 
 I bought mine from Amazon but had to return it because it seemed to
 overheat and the wireless would 'just stop'.  Amazon replaced it, and
 the replacement has worked well.  There seem to be over 200 comments
 about it on Amazon, so maybe there's some reading to do :)
 
 regards
 Atlantic

Thanks. Is that with the BT infinity router?


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread howie.stone

andynormancx;625930 Wrote: 
 Either move the wifi router closer 

Not easy -- it's fixed because it is fibre optic broadband.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread howie.stone

JJZolx;625947 Wrote: 
 
 
 If you can run ethernet cabling to the point in your house where you'd
 place the repeater, then you'd be better off with another router
 instead, configured as an access point and operating on a different
 wireless channel. Get one where you can replace the antenna with a
 higher gain unit, just in case you need it to reach the garden.


How easy is that to do? I'm not a hardcore networking techie.


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread Atlantic

howie.stone;625956 Wrote: 
 Thanks. Is that with the BT infinity router?

No.  The unit sits on an internal wall picking up a wireless 'g' signal
from a Linksys AP (access-point, like a router but without any 'routing'
- apologies if you're already familiar with what an AP is) and repeating
it into the two rooms where the wireless 'g' signal from the Linksys was
too weak for the SBRs to work.

I purchased this unit because I wasn't sure whether repeaters,
generally, had to be the 'same manufacturer' as the main router or AP
whose signal was being repeated.  (Eg, BT, in your case.) Some of the
comments on Amazon indicated that this Edimax unit would repeat any
wireless 'g' signal, so I got it.  It certainly repeats/extends the
Linksys's signal ok.  

Perhaps there will be some comments about its use with BT Infinity
since BT has such a large proportion of the BB market in UK.

On a slightly different subject, have you grasped, ok, that there are
two different suggestions for you on this thread?  

(i) Repeat the wireless signal from the BT Infinity - for example, by
sticking the Edimax unit on a wall near a window looking into the
garden (behind a curtain is fine, upstairs would be better than
downstairs*).

(ii) Don't repeat the signal at all.  Instead, get an additional WiFi
AP instead, installed at a suitable (upstairs - preferably*) window
overlooking the garden - behind a curtain is fine, which you then
connect using an ethernet cable to your BT Infinity.  Set the new
upstairs AP to use a different channel from the channel used by the BT
Infinity.

*Note: If you are in an urban area and your windows, or garden, are to
some extent 'overlooked' by adjacent properties, you might be better
off not putting your WiFi unit in an upstairs window, but in a
downstairs window where its signal will contend with lower-strength
signals from other properties.  (Signal attenuation - eg from other
properties - tends to be greater at lower heights.)

regards,

Atlantic


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Re: [slim] How can I listen to my music in the garden?

2011-04-17 Thread JJZolx

howie.stone;625959 Wrote: 
 How easy is that to do? I'm not a hardcore networking techie.

Which part? Running cable or configuring up the access point? It's no
more difficult than setting up a repeater.

Configuration is typically done through a web interface on the router.
Out of the box you would connect a PC or laptop directly to the new
router, connect to the router's administrative web page, then change
some settings. You would disable the router's DHCP server, set the
wireless channel, SSID and wifi password, then change the IP address of
the router to be a fixed address on your existing network. Reconnect the
PC to your existing network and connect the new router to the old one by
connecting between one of the new router's LAN ports (not the WAN port)
to a LAN port on the existing router.

Ask questions here if you like. Shouldn't take much to walk you through
it.


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