Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Robert Derman wrote: [...] Robert Derman replies: I have seen it in print, I don't remember exactly where now, but that BYTE magazine has gone out of print. An online version might still exist, I don't know about that, but AFAIK it is no longer published on hard copy. BYTE's still available online for free, but unfortunately one has to register for it. There does, however, seem to be a problem getting the paper copy. I looked at the website for Maximum PC but the content I could find puts it in a similar class to other MS-Windows magazines, definitely not in the same category as BYTE which covers several operating systems and a variety of hardware and software. -Lars Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Internet is for Everyone: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3271.txt?number=3271 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Ian Lynch wrote: On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 05:40, Robert Derman wrote: Robert Derman replies: The whole point, which I am still not sure that Ian gets from the wording of his replies, is that since the demise of BYTE, I used to read Byte and I hardly play any games ever. Only rugby ;-) MaximumPC is the favorite magazine of the HARD CORE hardware geeks. The editorial staff of MPC is not known for handing out praise liberally, and they have in fact been known to brutally diss a product oposite a full page add for the same product. Many MBAs would call that stupid too, but it* is* one way to earn the trust of hardware geeks. I was using the word stupid as a rational not an emotional description. Sure they might be a good target and a help to marketing OOo, a general attitude that no computer with a CPU speed < 3 GHz is worth using is in absolute rational terms stupid but then they are making their judgement emotionally rather than rationally. Robert Derman replies: I can't argue with that! When I build PCs for customers I always advise them to use a processor about 2 speed grades behind the leading edge, and at this time I advise the use of AMD rather than Intel, it's a better value I think. But the core of MPC readership is HARD CORE hardware geeks. These are the guys that won't accept anything less than the fastest chips available, and they are the first to embrace SATA and PCIE. The editorial tone of MPC reflects the bias of these readers. The main point however, as the example of the dissed product oposite the full page add shows, you *cannot buy *a favorable review in MPC. Therefore their reviews and awards are *trusted *by many people, and an award from them may mean more than one from a publication that is quick to praise anything new or different regardless of its true merit. OOo Marketing might just want to mention here and there that OOo has won the Softie Award, it couldn't hurt! The point being if MaximumPC gives you one of their highest awards it is SIGNIFICANT! Its useful publicity, I agree. Many important people in the computer and IT fields are regular readers of MPC, and the Softie Awards are very prominent! This WILL get noticed, and IMHO this is some of the best publicity that OOo has gotten so far! That is a bit debateable. Its certainly useful and the momentum keeps building so the more publicity the better, even from "stupid" people :-) Note I have been using :-)s. Maybe this should go to Social if followed up?
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Lars D. Noodén wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Robert Derman wrote: Robert Derman replies: The whole point, which I am still not sure that Ian gets from the wording of his replies, is that since the demise of BYTE, MaximumPC is the favorite magazine of the HARD CORE hardware geeks. [...] Robert, could you elaborate on what you mean by the demise of BYTE? When I last checked, I have found that the articles were still good. I will be able to read it at a local library soon. However, there may be some monkey business going on, I have noticed that it has been dropped from all the libraries I have checked in the last two years (with the excception of the one above) and that in several cases the back issues have been completely removed from the shelves (even in the storage areas) which should not normally happen. Did the talk of linux or heterogeneous computing environments bring down the wrath of Bill, or just his minions? Robert Derman replies: I have seen it in print, I don't remember exactly where now, but that BYTE magazine has gone out of print. An online version might still exist, I don't know about that, but AFAIK it is no longer published on hard copy. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 05:40, Robert Derman wrote: > Robert Derman replies: The whole point, which I am still not sure that > Ian gets from the wording of his replies, is that since the demise of > BYTE, I used to read Byte and I hardly play any games ever. Only rugby ;-) > MaximumPC is the favorite magazine of the HARD CORE hardware > geeks. The editorial staff of MPC is not known for handing out praise > liberally, and they have in fact been known to brutally diss a product > oposite a full page add for the same product. Many MBAs would call that > stupid too, but it* is* one way to earn the trust of hardware geeks. I was using the word stupid as a rational not an emotional description. Sure they might be a good target and a help to marketing OOo, a general attitude that no computer with a CPU speed < 3 GHz is worth using is in absolute rational terms stupid but then they are making their judgement emotionally rather than rationally. > The point being if MaximumPC gives you one of their highest awards it is > SIGNIFICANT! Its useful publicity, I agree. > Many important people in the computer and IT fields are > regular readers of MPC, and the Softie Awards are very prominent! This > WILL get noticed, and IMHO this is some of the best publicity that OOo > has gotten so far! That is a bit debateable. Its certainly useful and the momentum keeps building so the more publicity the better, even from "stupid" people :-) Note I have been using :-)s. Maybe this should go to Social if followed up? -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Robert Derman wrote: Robert Derman replies: The whole point, which I am still not sure that Ian gets from the wording of his replies, is that since the demise of BYTE, MaximumPC is the favorite magazine of the HARD CORE hardware geeks. [...] Robert, could you elaborate on what you mean by the demise of BYTE? When I last checked, I have found that the articles were still good. I will be able to read it at a local library soon. However, there may be some monkey business going on, I have noticed that it has been dropped from all the libraries I have checked in the last two years (with the excception of the one above) and that in several cases the back issues have been completely removed from the shelves (even in the storage areas) which should not normally happen. Did the talk of linux or heterogeneous computing environments bring down the wrath of Bill, or just his minions? -Lars Lars Nooden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) The Internet is for Everyone: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3271.txt?number=3271 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Chad Smith wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 22:11, Justin Fitzgibbon wrote: So gamers/modders could be an important market for Oo.o Maybe, I bet most don't pay for MSO ;-) "pay for"? You mean it's not free? lol They are not people with limitless cash in fact the relative value of different hardware is ruthlessly examined in many cases. So I think the CPU speed might be less significant to them than the graphics card? Definitely. Or the amount/speed of RAM. All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. But, less than 2 GB is kinda worthless to gamers. (Speaking as one who is stuck on old PC.) But, of course, just because it's *over* 2 GB doesn't mean it's good. The newest games have system requirements higher than 2.0 GB. -Chad Smith Robert Derman replies: The whole point, which I am still not sure that Ian gets from the wording of his replies, is that since the demise of BYTE, MaximumPC is the favorite magazine of the HARD CORE hardware geeks. The editorial staff of MPC is not known for handing out praise liberally, and they have in fact been known to brutally diss a product oposite a full page add for the same product. Many MBAs would call that stupid too, but it* is* one way to earn the trust of hardware geeks. The point being if MaximumPC gives you one of their highest awards it is SIGNIFICANT! Many important people in the computer and IT fields are regular readers of MPC, and the Softie Awards are very prominent! This WILL get noticed, and IMHO this is some of the best publicity that OOo has gotten so far!
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Thursday 20 Jan 2005 09:30, Chad Smith wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if > >its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. > > But, less than 2 GB is kinda worthless to gamers. (Speaking as one who > is stuck on old PC.) But, of course, just because it's *over* 2 GB > doesn't mean it's good. The newest games have system requirements > higher than 2.0 GB. uh oh... My hot new game system is only clocked at 1.8ghz ;) The video card is the main thing for games and with good video a PC of 1.2ghz can theoretically run hl2, tho I haven't tried it... Mind you I played through hl2 with just an fx5200 video card with everything set high, even full water reflection, tho it does play a little better in hard areas with medium texture and model settings. An fx5700 would be better and I can't even think about buying a 6800gt as they are like $900 here which is twice what I paid for the amd64cpu/mb/ram upgrade :) Of course it depends on the cpu and a 1.8ghz amd64 (pr2800+) newcastle like I have is obviously going to wipe out a 1.8ghz celeron... As for the overclockers... Well, these guys tend to be out there on the edge. It's all about cas latencies and ht/fsb speeds and fastest fps - and for many, figuring out how to hack the game security. I doubt they pay for MSO as others have said... tim -- - Tim & Therese Fairchild Atchafalaya Border Collies. Kuttabul, Queensland, Australia. - Email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepagehttp://www.bcs4me.com - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 23:30, Chad Smith wrote: > > >All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if > >its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. > > > > > But, less than 2 GB is kinda worthless to gamers. Don't you mean GHz? Or do you mean amount of RAM? Maybe both! > (Speaking as one who > is stuck on old PC.) But, of course, just because it's *over* 2 GB > doesn't mean it's good. The newest games have system requirements > higher than 2.0 GB. > > -Chad Smith -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 22:11, Justin Fitzgibbon wrote: So gamers/modders could be an important market for Oo.o Maybe, I bet most don't pay for MSO ;-) "pay for"? You mean it's not free? lol They are not people with limitless cash in fact the relative value of different hardware is ruthlessly examined in many cases. So I think the CPU speed might be less significant to them than the graphics card? Definitely. Or the amount/speed of RAM. All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. But, less than 2 GB is kinda worthless to gamers. (Speaking as one who is stuck on old PC.) But, of course, just because it's *over* 2 GB doesn't mean it's good. The newest games have system requirements higher than 2.0 GB. -Chad Smith
RE: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
>All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if >its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. Very true, I recently upgraded my Dads laptop from win2000 with OO.o to Linux Fedora Core 3, its a PIII 700 and more than enough for his needs. And with the latest Fedora release, its running faster than ever with all the eye candy turned on ! The fact that he has been using OO.o/Firefox for a while should make the transistion painless from his point of view. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 22:11, Justin Fitzgibbon wrote: > >Then they are stupid ;-) > > A difference of emphasis I think, if having the fastest hardware > is really important to you, for games and the like then you'll want > to save as much as possible on software to spend on the latest > 3D accelerator or whatever. > So gamers/modders could be an important market for Oo.o Maybe, I bet most don't pay for MSO ;-) > They are not people with limitless cash in fact the relative > value of different hardware is ruthlessly examined in many cases. So I think the CPU speed might be less significant to them than the graphics card? > an example of this group would be overclockers > http://www.overclockers.com.au/ > very hardware and gaming orientated but not uninterested in FLOSS. All I was saying was that the attitude that a PC isn't worth using if its CPU speed is < 3gig is stupid. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
>Then they are stupid ;-) A difference of emphasis I think, if having the fastest hardware is really important to you, for games and the like then you'll want to save as much as possible on software to spend on the latest 3D accelerator or whatever. So gamers/modders could be an important market for Oo.o They are not people with limitless cash in fact the relative value of different hardware is ruthlessly examined in many cases. an example of this group would be overclockers http://www.overclockers.com.au/ very hardware and gaming orientated but not uninterested in FLOSS. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Of course, getting an award from a rather poorly "high end" gaming magazine is not exactly in the same classification as getting an award from a magazine that matters to the people most likely to either deploy or use OOo. These type of magazines hand out awards like popcorn treats - yipee. Chip On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:29:38 -0600, Robert Derman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ian Lynch wrote: > > >On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 05:48, Robert Derman wrote: > > > > > > > >>This is particularly high praise when you know what really tough > >>critics the editors at /MaximumPC/ are. They don't think that any PC > >>below 3 GHz or the AMD equivalent is even worth sitting down at. > >> > >> > > > >Then they are stupid ;-) > > > >I am working at a 1 GHz Athlon and we build computers so if I thought it > >would make any difference to my productivity I'd upgrade it. For the > >tasks I do it would make no difference and just cost me money and more > >importantly time. > > > > > > > Robert Derman replies: Pay attention Ian, these people are not > concerned with costs, nor with what buisness or academic users need, > only with raw performance particularly with high end games! They will > never give a top score to a product for merely being the best of its > type, it must be significantly better than any competitor, and have at > least 1 major new innovation besides to score a 10! That's what I mean > by tough critics. > > -- "The reason the mainstream is considered a stream is because it's so shallow" --George Carlin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 02:29, Robert Derman wrote: > Ian Lynch wrote: > > >On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 05:48, Robert Derman wrote: > > > > > > > >>This is particularly high praise when you know what really tough > >>critics the editors at /MaximumPC/ are. They don't think that any PC > >>below 3 GHz or the AMD equivalent is even worth sitting down at. > >> > >> > > > >Then they are stupid ;-) > > > >I am working at a 1 GHz Athlon and we build computers so if I thought it > >would make any difference to my productivity I'd upgrade it. For the > >tasks I do it would make no difference and just cost me money and more > >importantly time. > > > > > > > Robert Derman replies: Pay attention Ian, these people are not > concerned with costs, Then they really are stupid! I'm paying attention - I understand that they are marketing to other people who probably have more money than sense - note the ;-) > nor with what buisness or academic users need, > only with raw performance particularly with high end games! They will > never give a top score to a product for merely being the best of its > type, it must be significantly better than any competitor, and have at > least 1 major new innovation besides to score a 10! That's what I mean > by tough critics. What is hardware relevant to high end games is not that relevant to Office software. So to say its not worth sitting down at a PC with a lower than 3 gig clock speed without saying what task you are doing is at best meaningless. But I was saying this with a little humour hence the :-) -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Ian Lynch wrote: On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 05:48, Robert Derman wrote: This is particularly high praise when you know what really tough critics the editors at /MaximumPC/ are. They don't think that any PC below 3 GHz or the AMD equivalent is even worth sitting down at. Then they are stupid ;-) I am working at a 1 GHz Athlon and we build computers so if I thought it would make any difference to my productivity I'd upgrade it. For the tasks I do it would make no difference and just cost me money and more importantly time. Robert Derman replies: Pay attention Ian, these people are not concerned with costs, nor with what buisness or academic users need, only with raw performance particularly with high end games! They will never give a top score to a product for merely being the best of its type, it must be significantly better than any competitor, and have at least 1 major new innovation besides to score a 10! That's what I mean by tough critics.
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
Quoting Robert Derman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > The stripped-down version of /Microsoft Office 2003/ -- you know, > the one that includes only /Outlook, Excel, Word, /and/ PowerPoint -- > /costs $400! Doesn't really seem like a very good deal, does it? If > you can live without /Outlook/, you'll be astounded at how great a free > office suite can be." > This is interesting, Outlook would be open source soon --- NOT, but at least Ximian Evolution would run on Windows: Taken from NAT's Blog: "" For Novell, Tor is working along the same lines, making Gtk+ and various parts of the Linux desktop stack run better on Windows to improve the experience for cross-platform developers. his major project will be to port Evolution to Windows. The scope and difficulty of this work is currently unknown, so we don't have a timeline (or even a "development plan" to speak of), but you will be able to follow his work on the various mailing lists and on Tor's blog (once he starts one). The Evolution porting will be discussed along with all Evolution development topics on e-h. If you're interested in helping, I'm sure Tor would welcome you with open arms. It's a big project. Good luck, Tor! We're all really happy you joined! "" Permalink (http://nat.org/2005/january/#17-January-2005) -- Alexandro Colorado Co-Lider of OpenOffice.org Español http://es.openoffice.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [discuss] OpenOffice.org receives award.
On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 05:48, Robert Derman wrote: > This is particularly high praise when you know what really tough > critics the editors at /MaximumPC/ are. They don't think that any PC > below 3 GHz or the AMD equivalent is even worth sitting down at. Then they are stupid ;-) I am working at a 1 GHz Athlon and we build computers so if I thought it would make any difference to my productivity I'd upgrade it. For the tasks I do it would make no difference and just cost me money and more importantly time. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
