Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving, Brother. And Fast...
Hi Achilleas, sorry for the belated reply but I was very busy working on extending MA over SR-DVB and with other academic stuff here. MA actually stands for Memory Acceleration and is intended as an optimization technique aimed at signal-processing-generated computation over GPPs and DSPs (we haven't explored it yet, but I'm persuaded that it can be useful for FPGA implementations too). Such optimization technique belongs to the broader class known in computer science as space/time trade-off and basically consists of an algorithmic toolbox which takes a classical implementation of a typical communication signal processing algorithm (say for example an OFDM time and frequency offset estimator or a Viterbi Decoder, just to quote two highly heterogeneous algorithms we've been trying) and returns a memory-accelerated version capable of running much faster over the same HW. Just as an example: since my last email upon this topic we applied MA to another (very small) section of SR-DVB chain and managed to further reduce the computational cost of the entire system previously shown in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nGBDCxhmk by an additional 2%. This appears to confirm our idea that considerable margins do exist for optimization as most of the chain is currently still implemented in a traditional way. I hope I have answered your question, even if with some delay. I will present some more details about this next week in Karlsruhe at WSR10. my best regards vincenzo On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 14:30 -0500, Achilleas Anastasopoulos wrote: Vincenzo, this seems very impressive! May I ask what the initials NA stand for? best, Achilleas ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
Hi Per, carrier freq is 809.5 MHz (one of the Australian DVB-T center freqs in UHF) Phase and frequency responses are compensated by applying estimations done based on the (many) DVB-T OFDM pilot carriers. We do not average channel estimates to remove noise, still we get very clean constellation when doing lab tests. As well as useful constellations with SNR being around 12 dB. regards vincenzo 2010/2/1 Per Zetterberg per.zetterb...@ee.kth.se Vincenzo Pellegrini wrote: SR-DVB demo video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nGBDCxhmk regards vincenzo ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio Nice. I am curious. What is the carrier frequency ? Do you do anything to combat phase-noise ? BR/ Per -- Vincenzo Pellegrini http://www.youtube.com/user/wwvince1 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving, Brother. And Fast...
Vincenzo, this seems very impressive! May I ask what the initials NA stand for? best, Achilleas ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
SR-DVB demo video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nGBDCxhmk regards vincenzo ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
[Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
Hi GNURadio fellows, considering that this list has grown to something highly relevant in Software Defined Radio I thought it would have been a good idea to share here a few thoughts I've been having since long and as well as a result that was just achieved. Since a few months after my first approach to SDR in 2006, I thought I picked up two major facts about the technology: .:. SDR infinite potential lying for sure in its flexibility but, even more relevantly, in its ability to bypass the costly HW-level design stage which is embedded in any traditional radio design/production process .:. Its equally infinite power-inefficiency compared to traditional, HW-implemented competitor technologies. In fact, ease of development as well as flexibility appear to be inversely proportional to power efficiency. The latter being in my opinion the reason for which SDR has been growing for ages up to now but has never exploded as we could expect from a technology cutting away a conspicuous part of the design costs of any radio system. Actually, flexibility and cost-efficiency, though considerable, do not appear to be sufficient motivation for accepting to upscale power requirements (at a given computational cost yielded by the implemented wireless standard) by a factor which typically is in [100 ; 300]. Whether right or wrong, by working with these thoughts in mind, during the research I'm carrying on at the University of Pisa, Italy while doing my PhD here, I developed a novel implementation technique targeted at software-implemented Signal Processing over General Purpose CPUs or DSPs which we (at DSPCoLa lab, http://dspcola.iet.unipi.it ) call MA. Current research results have shown that MA was able to increase by slightly more than one order of magnitude the power efficiency of a traditionally implemented (MA-free) SDR. By applying such MA technology to the ETSI DVB-T receiver chain with the help of: Mario Di Dio (former master thesis student, now PhD Student at DSPCoLa) Luca ROSE(former master thesis student at DSPCoLa, now PhD student at Supélec Paris) we obtained the receiving companion of Soft-DVB: SR-DVB. Standing for Software Receiver - DVB, SR-DVB is a fully software (all signal processing is done in pure C++ over the host computer) ETSI DVB-T receiver capable of running realtime while providing 11.612 Mbps throughput and absorbing less than 50% of computational resources available over an Intel Q9400, 2.66 GHz CPU. As long as MA was applied only to the two computationally-heaviest blocks of the receive chain (i.e. Viterbi Decoding and OFDM synch), we believe that considerable margins for improvement of the presented result do exist. They will be explored in the next months. SR-DVB will be presented in Karlsruhe at WSR 10 as the article: A Fully Software ETSI DVB-T Receiver Based on the USRP during such presentation also MA technology will be briefly outlined. A demo video of our proof-of-concept receiver is available at www.legalepellegrini.it/ing/SR-DVB_demo_long.VRO as usual, mplayer or VLC wil play this camcorder mpeg2 viedo easily. Best regards to all writers and readers of the list vincenzo -- Vincenzo Pellegrini http://www.youtube.com/user/wwvince1 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
Wow this is exciting! Folks we are on the verge of a paradime shift in RF communications. I'm not clear on the dvb standards, but is it safe to assume dvb-s would need just a few tweaks on the dvb-t code or no? Sent from my iPhone On Jan 29, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Vincenzo Pellegrini wwvi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi GNURadio fellows, considering that this list has grown to something highly relevant in Software Defined Radio I thought it would have been a good idea to share here a few thoughts I've been having since long and as well as a result that was just achieved. Since a few months after my first approach to SDR in 2006, I thought I picked up two major facts about the technology: .:. SDR infinite potential lying for sure in its flexibility but, even more relevantly, in its ability to bypass the costly HW-level design stage which is embedded in any traditional radio design/production process .:. Its equally infinite power-inefficiency compared to traditional, HW-implemented competitor technologies. In fact, ease of development as well as flexibility appear to be inversely proportional to power efficiency. The latter being in my opinion the reason for which SDR has been growing for ages up to now but has never exploded as we could expect from a technology cutting away a conspicuous part of the design costs of any radio system. Actually, flexibility and cost-efficiency, though considerable, do not appear to be sufficient motivation for accepting to upscale power requirements (at a given computational cost yielded by the implemented wireless standard) by a factor which typically is in [100 ; 300]. Whether right or wrong, by working with these thoughts in mind, during the research I'm carrying on at the University of Pisa, Italy while doing my PhD here, I developed a novel implementation technique targeted at software-implemented Signal Processing over General Purpose CPUs or DSPs which we (at DSPCoLa lab, http://dspcola.iet.unipi.it ) call MA. Current research results have shown that MA was able to increase by slightly more than one order of magnitude the power efficiency of a traditionally implemented (MA-free) SDR. By applying such MA technology to the ETSI DVB-T receiver chain with the help of: Mario Di Dio (former master thesis student, now PhD Student at DSPCoLa) Luca ROSE(former master thesis student at DSPCoLa, now PhD student at Supélec Paris) we obtained the receiving companion of Soft-DVB: SR-DVB. Standing for Software Receiver - DVB, SR-DVB is a fully software (all signal processing is done in pure C++ over the host computer) ETSI DVB-T receiver capable of running realtime while providing 11.612 Mbps throughput and absorbing less than 50% of computational resources available over an Intel Q9400, 2.66 GHz CPU. As long as MA was applied only to the two computationally-heaviest blocks of the receive chain (i.e. Viterbi Decoding and OFDM synch), we believe that considerable margins for improvement of the presented result do exist. They will be explored in the next months. SR-DVB will be presented in Karlsruhe at WSR 10 as the article: A Fully Software ETSI DVB-T Receiver Based on the USRP during such presentation also MA technology will be briefly outlined. A demo video of our proof-of-concept receiver is available at www.legalepellegrini.it/ing/SR-DVB_demo_long.VRO as usual, mplayer or VLC wil play this camcorder mpeg2 viedo easily. Best regards to all writers and readers of the list vincenzo -- Vincenzo Pellegrini http://www.youtube.com/user/wwvince1 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
Hi Vincenzo, That's interesting. Can you point to some description or this MAgic technology? From your description I'm not sure I understand even on what level it works and what it actually does :) On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:04, Vincenzo Pellegrini wwvi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi GNURadio fellows, considering that this list has grown to something highly relevant in Software Defined Radio I thought it would have been a good idea to share here a few thoughts I've been having since long and as well as a result that was just achieved. Since a few months after my first approach to SDR in 2006, I thought I picked up two major facts about the technology: .:. SDR infinite potential lying for sure in its flexibility but, even more relevantly, in its ability to bypass the costly HW-level design stage which is embedded in any traditional radio design/production process .:. Its equally infinite power-inefficiency compared to traditional, HW-implemented competitor technologies. In fact, ease of development as well as flexibility appear to be inversely proportional to power efficiency. The latter being in my opinion the reason for which SDR has been growing for ages up to now but has never exploded as we could expect from a technology cutting away a conspicuous part of the design costs of any radio system. Actually, flexibility and cost-efficiency, though considerable, do not appear to be sufficient motivation for accepting to upscale power requirements (at a given computational cost yielded by the implemented wireless standard) by a factor which typically is in [100 ; 300]. Whether right or wrong, by working with these thoughts in mind, during the research I'm carrying on at the University of Pisa, Italy while doing my PhD here, I developed a novel implementation technique targeted at software-implemented Signal Processing over General Purpose CPUs or DSPs which we (at DSPCoLa lab, http://dspcola.iet.unipi.it ) call MA. Current research results have shown that MA was able to increase by slightly more than one order of magnitude the power efficiency of a traditionally implemented (MA-free) SDR. By applying such MA technology to the ETSI DVB-T receiver chain with the help of: Mario Di Dio (former master thesis student, now PhD Student at DSPCoLa) Luca ROSE (former master thesis student at DSPCoLa, now PhD student at Supélec Paris) we obtained the receiving companion of Soft-DVB: SR-DVB. Standing for Software Receiver - DVB, SR-DVB is a fully software (all signal processing is done in pure C++ over the host computer) ETSI DVB-T receiver capable of running realtime while providing 11.612 Mbps throughput and absorbing less than 50% of computational resources available over an Intel Q9400, 2.66 GHz CPU. As long as MA was applied only to the two computationally-heaviest blocks of the receive chain (i.e. Viterbi Decoding and OFDM synch), we believe that considerable margins for improvement of the presented result do exist. They will be explored in the next months. SR-DVB will be presented in Karlsruhe at WSR 10 as the article: A Fully Software ETSI DVB-T Receiver Based on the USRP during such presentation also MA technology will be briefly outlined. A demo video of our proof-of-concept receiver is available at www.legalepellegrini.it/ing/SR-DVB_demo_long.VRO as usual, mplayer or VLC wil play this camcorder mpeg2 viedo easily. Best regards to all writers and readers of the list vincenzo -- Vincenzo Pellegrini http://www.youtube.com/user/wwvince1 ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. ___ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio
Re: [Discuss-gnuradio] Soft-DVB has a Brother. A Receiving Brother. And Fast...
Yes Dave, it is absolutely safe. Actually going from DVB-T to DVB-S (version 1), roughly speaking, only requires removing some OFDM-related blocks, which means it makes the system computationally lighter.. :) Hi Alexander, Yes, I absolutely want to share MA-related knowledge with the software radio community, especially with gnuradio community. At the present moment, papers describing MA technology are undergoing academic review process. Paper accepted in Karlsruhe (WS10) features a brief section about MA and presentation there will do as well. If I could just decide, I would provide links to all these contents right now on the list, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to without consequences for my publications. I will check what I actually can do and possibly prepare some descriptive content for MA that I will post to this list. Can you provide advice on these publication copyright issues? For sure I will give updates regarding increases of computational efficiency that will be achieved by SR-DVB while applying MA to other sections of the receive chain (currently only Viterbi and OFDM synch have been implemented through MA). Thanks for your interest. I will do my best to be clear and detailed ASAP my best regards vincenzo 2010/1/29 Alexander Chemeris alexander.cheme...@gmail.com Hi Vincenzo, That's interesting. Can you point to some description or this MAgic technology? From your description I'm not sure I understand even on what level it works and what it actually does :) On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:04, Vincenzo Pellegrini wwvi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi GNURadio fellows, considering that this list has grown to something highly relevant in Software Defined Radio I thought it would have been a good idea to share here a few thoughts I've been having since long and as well as a result that was just achieved. Since a few months after my first approach to SDR in 2006, I thought I picked up two major facts about the technology: .:. SDR infinite potential lying for sure in its flexibility but, even more relevantly, in its ability to bypass the costly HW-level design stage which is embedded in any traditional radio design/production process .:. Its equally infinite power-inefficiency compared to traditional, HW-implemented competitor technologies. In fact, ease of development as well as flexibility appear to be inversely proportional to power efficiency. The latter being in my opinion the reason for which SDR has been growing for ages up to now but has never exploded as we could expect from a technology cutting away a conspicuous part of the design costs of any radio system. Actually, flexibility and cost-efficiency, though considerable, do not appear to be sufficient motivation for accepting to upscale power requirements (at a given computational cost yielded by the implemented wireless standard) by a factor which typically is in [100 ; 300]. Whether right or wrong, by working with these thoughts in mind, during the research I'm carrying on at the University of Pisa, Italy while doing my PhD here, I developed a novel implementation technique targeted at software-implemented Signal Processing over General Purpose CPUs or DSPs which we (at DSPCoLa lab, http://dspcola.iet.unipi.it ) call MA. Current research results have shown that MA was able to increase by slightly more than one order of magnitude the power efficiency of a traditionally implemented (MA-free) SDR. By applying such MA technology to the ETSI DVB-T receiver chain with the help of: Mario Di Dio (former master thesis student, now PhD Student at DSPCoLa) Luca ROSE(former master thesis student at DSPCoLa, now PhD student at Supélec Paris) we obtained the receiving companion of Soft-DVB: SR-DVB. Standing for Software Receiver - DVB, SR-DVB is a fully software (all signal processing is done in pure C++ over the host computer) ETSI DVB-T receiver capable of running realtime while providing 11.612 Mbps throughput and absorbing less than 50% of computational resources available over an Intel Q9400, 2.66 GHz CPU. As long as MA was applied only to the two computationally-heaviest blocks of the receive chain (i.e. Viterbi Decoding and OFDM synch), we believe that considerable margins for improvement of the presented result do exist. They will be explored in the next months. SR-DVB will be presented in Karlsruhe at WSR 10 as the article: A Fully Software ETSI DVB-T Receiver Based on the USRP during such presentation also MA technology will be briefly outlined. A demo video of our proof-of-concept receiver is available at www.legalepellegrini.it/ing/SR-DVB_demo_long.VRO as usual, mplayer or VLC wil play this camcorder mpeg2 viedo easily. Best regards to all writers and readers of the list vincenzo -- Vincenzo Pellegrini http://www.youtube.com/user/wwvince1
