[ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
Here’s an easy one! Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and rolling in CF? Budget a couple hundred. I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, or use Forta’s Web App Construction site? Opinions and links welcome... Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
I am a book learner. It really depends on what type of learner you are. Of course at a couple hundred dollars you won't be able to afford any hard core classes. You will be able to buy all of the books you need. A couple of good CF books, a good database design book, and maybe later one good book on design patterns (design patterns come quite a bit later). There is no replacement for actually writing code. Buy a couple of the better recommended ColdFusion books and make a project for yourself. Then go and implement said project. Try and pick something that is useful. Good first projects are something like a home library manager for your DVDs or a basic accounting ledger (Quicken style program). You get to do basic create/read/update/delete operations. Since web applications almost always rely upon relational databases learning how to properly normalize and design a relational database is a critical skill that should not be overlooked in your learning of ColdFusion. Great ColdFusion code plus a terrible database design insure you will be frustrated more often than not. The same goes for a great database and bad CF code. The two skills should be developed hand in hand. CF books will often give database design bare minimum coverage. Get: Joe Celko's SQL for Smarties: Advanced SQL Programming Third Edition. Learn it and every trick in the book. It says advanced in it but it has one of the best chapters on normalization you will find anywhere. That book combined with a good CF manual and a nice project (of limited scope) will have you well on your way to coding great ColdFusion applications. If you just try and buy a CF book and slog through it chapter by chapter your learning experience is going to take longer most likely. There is no replacement for writing code and doing something useful. Having a project gives you goals. Once you have your first sample application working and under your belt and you have a decent feel for database design and how CF looks and feels you need to move on to learning about OO and CFCs while evaluating one of the frameworks like Model-Glue. It is a huge leap but you can learn OO concepts pretty well independent of everything else you will be doing. OO programming really does take some work so its best to get into that mode of thinking as early as possible in your programming tutelage. It is one of the dominant programming paradigms right now and it is a huge benefit to you if you learn how to think OO earlier rather than later as procedural habits are hard to break for some, so its best to never get them. Going from OO->Procedural has always seemed easier than going from Procedural->OO. Most people learn procedural style code and then move up to OO and the habits they learn while developing procedural code are hard to break in some cases. (If this whole OO vs. procedural business doesnt make sense to you read these two links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_programming ).So the procession goes something like this: Write first app learning basics of CF and database design. Begin learning OO and slowly convert first app over to one of the MVC frameworks. From there don't look back. To learn OO concepts I recommend taking a look at Bruce Eckel's Thinking in Java or Thinking in C++. They are freely available on his website and the first chapter of either book are purely abstract and discuss the basics of OO and how to think in OO terms. You can't do this all at once. It takes time and you have to build step by step. Ideally in 3 months of dedicated effort you would have a good idea of database design and CF to your name. In 6-9 months you should be relatively comfortable with CFCs and OO concepts. In 12 months you should be ready for anything coming your way large or small. I will say it once again as it is the most important message in this long email: Write Code! That is how I would recommend it. I am probably forgetting something so I am sure others will add to this. Everyone learns differently :)Jeremy On 6/17/06, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here's an easy one! Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and rolling in CF? Budget a couple hundred. I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, or use Forta's Web App Construction site? Opinions and links welcome... Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw , Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
Oh.. and from a position of seeing how many people have tried to teach themselves programming it is NOT always an easy one to answer. Some people think that you can read programming books without actually writing code and still learn to program. Its just not true :) I think I already made that point in my previous email, anyhow. ThanksJeremyOn 6/17/06, Robert Reil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here's an easy one! Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and rolling in CF? Budget a couple hundred. I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, or use Forta's Web App Construction site? Opinions and links welcome... Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw , Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to learn on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on this list (I still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming technique). So if your goal is to get to their level I think it would take some formal training. Just to let you know, you can do a lot (and I mean a lot) just knowing the basic aspects of CF and having a pretty fair understanding of SQL and DB design. Rick -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Robert ReilSent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:25 PMTo: discussion@acfug.orgSubject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion Heres an easy one! Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and rolling in CF? Budget a couple hundred. I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, or use Fortas Web App Construction site? Opinions and links welcome... Robert P. Reil Managing Director, Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. 4292 Country Garden Walk NW Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 Office 770-974-8851 Fax 770-974-8852 www.motorcyclecarbs.com- To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, read more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you consider taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes are helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical area of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day. That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things has always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. My next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned a lot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Cameron Childress, Jeremy Allen (who I'm happy to work with now), Charlie Arehart, Shawn Gorrell and others have all been great resources over the years. Good luck Rick! -dhs On June 17, 2006, Rick Lansford wrote: > I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to learn > on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on this list (I > still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming technique). So if > your goal is to get to their level I think it would take some formal > training. Just to let you know, you can do a lot (and I mean a lot) just > knowing the basic aspects of CF and having a pretty fair understanding of > SQL and DB design. > > Rick > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Reil > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:25 PM > To: discussion@acfug.org > Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion > > > Heres an easy one! > > > > Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and rolling in > CF? > > Budget a couple hundred. > > I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, or use > Fortas Web App Construction site? > > > > Opinions and links welcome... > > > > Robert P. Reil > > Managing Director, > > Motorcyclecarbs.com, Inc. > > 4292 Country Garden Walk NW > > Kennesaw, Ga. 30152 > > Office 770-974-8851 > > Fax 770-974-8852 > > www.motorcyclecarbs.com > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink > - > > > > - > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com > - Dean H. Saxe [EMAIL PROTECTED] "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy? " -Gandhi - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
Thank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've been of help to you, seeing how much you now give back to the community. And that is indeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groups because I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in my mainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing lists, and even electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and giving back has been so valuable. As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I would have to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for those who have achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go well beyond that. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the Gang of Four book as someone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a better choice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10 Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'll see why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now. Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean and Rick. As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. You can find discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the Churvises, Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like the Oreilly one) online. And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than just the "reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and more, that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and read it online in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the "ColdFusion MX Developer's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (and something yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online in PDF and HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) at http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.html Don't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option on installation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyed in this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's learning to advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice flash-based interface to help with its getting started resources. Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire called the SkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent version of something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at: http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.html I've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to fit in your budget. /charlie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, read more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you consider taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes are helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical area of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day. That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things has always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. My next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned a lot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Cameron Childress, Jeremy Allen (who I'm happy to work with now), Charlie Arehart, Shawn Gorrell and others have all been great resources over the years. Good luck Rick! -dhs On June 17, 2006, Rick Lansford wrote: > I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to > learn on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on > this list (I still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming > technique). So if your goal is to get to their level I think it would > take some formal training. Just to let you know, you can do a lot (and > I mean a lot) just knowing the basic aspects of CF and having a pretty > fair understanding of SQL and DB design. > > Rick > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Reil > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:25 PM > To: discussion@acfug.org > Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion > > > Here's an easy one! > > > > Whats the easiest cost effective way to learn how to get up and > rolling in CF? > > Budget a couple hundred. > > I have servers, and software. Should I take a class, a web school, > or use Forta's
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
I actually had to watch that CBT back in 2000 when I entered the CF world. 'SkillBuilding With ColdFusion' IIRC was the title. It was for 4 or 4.5 version but the basic ideas still apply today. I know I have a copy around, but alas those copyright rulez! :) Luckily we have electrity now, so its ok :) I'd concur with others on this. Hands-on experimenting with some books on the side is a great approach. If you are dead against self-teaching look into Fig Leaf for sure. DK On 6/17/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Thank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've been of help to you, seeing how much you now give back to the community. And that is indeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groups because I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in my mainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing lists, and even electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and giving back has been so valuable. As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I would have to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for those who have achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go well beyond that. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the Gang of Four book as someone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a better choice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10 Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'll see why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now. Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean and Rick. As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. You can find discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the Churvises, Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like the Oreilly one) online. And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than just the "reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and more, that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and read it online in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the "ColdFusion MX Developer's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (and something yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online in PDF and HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) at http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.html Don't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option on installation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyed in this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's learning to advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice flash-based interface to help with its getting started resources. Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire called the SkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent version of something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at: http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.html I've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to fit in your budget. /charlie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, read more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you consider taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes are helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical area of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day. That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things has always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. My next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned a lot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Cameron Childress, Jeremy Allen (who I'm happy to work with now), Charlie Arehart, Shawn Gorrell and others have all been great resources over the years. Good luck Rick! -dhs On June 17, 2006, Rick Lansford wrote: > I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to > learn on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on > this list (I still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming > technique). So if your goal is to get to their level I think it would > take some formal training. Just to let you know, you can do a lot (and > I mean a lot) just knowing the basic aspects of CF and having
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
Whle some learn best by book, some of us don't. Even in college, I had to write notes from my readings and to study I would rewrite my notes, as retarded as that sounds. Just reading nor hearing a teacher in class make things click for me. It is a weird combination of all of those, plus doing it. Even now, I am listening to CF podcasts, articles, keeping an eye on lists like these and local user groups in order to attempt to keep the skillset sharp. So whatever method works for you is what you should do. But always keep some reference books handy and start building your list of bookmarks! :) Mary-Catherine[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -To: discussion@acfug.orgFrom: Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: 06/17/2006 05:53PMSubject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold FusionThank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've been ofhelp to you, seeing how much you now give back to the community. And that isindeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groupsbecause I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in mymainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing lists, andeven electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and givingback has been so valuable.As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I wouldhave to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for those whohave achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go well beyondthat. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the Gang of Four book assomeone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a betterchoice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'llsee why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now.Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean andRick.As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. You canfind discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the Churvises,Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like the Oreilly one)online. And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than just the"reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and more,that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and read itonline in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the "ColdFusion MXDeveloper's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (andsomething yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online in PDFand HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) athttp://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.htmlDon't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option oninstallation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyedin this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's learningto advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice flash-based interfaceto help with its getting started resources.Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire called theSkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent versionof something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at:http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.htmlI've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to fit inyour budget./charlie-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dean H. SaxeSent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PMTo: discussion@acfug.orgSubject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold FusionI'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, readmore, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you considertaking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes arehelpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical areaof expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day.That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things hasalways been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technologyjust a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. Myfirst boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. Mynext boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRTapplication security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found somepeople who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned alot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Cameron Childress, JeremyAllen (who I'm happy to work with now), Charlie Arehart, Shawn Gorrell andothers have all been great resources over the years.Good luck Rick!-dhsOn June 17, 2006, Rick Lansford wrote:> I took a class, but looking back, it would have been just as easy to > learn on my own. However, I am not in the league with the others on > this list (I still pretty much use a basic to mid-level programming > technique). So
[ACFUG Discuss] Reactor
I just flipped through Teddy's presentation on Reactor and wanted to know other's ideas of it. Being totally new to it, is it easy for people to learn/implement, even for those of us that are a little stubborn? Seems straightforward. Does it work well for large projects? What about complex queries? I try to have as few queries as possible per page load, so I end up with some complex queries. Any thoguhts welcome. Thanks, Mary-Catherine -To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserformFor more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglistsArchive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com-
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
I read somewhere that the best way to learn is having to do something... ie: your fired if you don't learn coldfusion. Hah, there is some nice learning pressure for you.I would say that the best (and cheapest) way to learn CF (or any programming language) is to read a book and try to build something while having a mentor. This helped a ton when I learned java... course I did also take an online class that sorta forced me to do the material. the great thing about the cf list is that it can definately help you out when you are lost!On 6/17/06, Douglas Knudsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I actually had to watch that CBT back in 2000 when I entered the CFworld. 'SkillBuilding With ColdFusion' IIRC was the title. It wasfor 4 or 4.5 version but the basic ideas still apply today. I know Ihave a copy around, but alas those copyright rulez! :) Luckily we have electrity now, so its ok :)I'd concur with others on this. Hands-on experimenting with somebooks on the side is a great approach. If you are dead againstself-teaching look into Fig Leaf for sure. DKOn 6/17/06, Charlie Arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> Thank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've been of > help to you, seeing how much you now give back to the community. And that is > indeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groups> because I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in my> mainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing lists, and > even electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and giving> back has been so valuable.>> As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I would> have to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for those who > have achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go well beyond> that. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the Gang of Four book as> someone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a better > choice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10> Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'll> see why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now. >> Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean and> Rick.>> As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. You can> find discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the Churvises, > Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like the Oreilly one)> online.>> And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than just the> "reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and more, > that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and read it> online in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the "ColdFusion MX> Developer's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (and > something yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online in PDF> and HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) at> http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.html>> Don't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option on> installation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyed > in this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's learning> to advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice flash-based interface> to help with its getting started resources. >> Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire called the> SkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent version> of something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at: >> http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.html >> I've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to fit in > your budget.>> /charlie>> -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PM> To: discussion@acfug.org> Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion >>> I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, read > more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you consider> taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes are> helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical area > of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day.>> That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things has> always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology > just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My> first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. My> next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT > application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some> people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned a> lot from people i
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Reactor
MCG,It is being used for large projects and supports some rpetty complex queries.If you have an example, I can create the realationships and joins that you would be curious about.It would probably help more than just you to show how to achieve this. If you provide me with a sample schema and query, I can create the Reactor queries. TeddyOn 6/17/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I just flipped through Teddy's presentation on Reactor and wanted to know other's ideas of it. Being totally new to it, is it easy for people to learn/implement, even for those of us that are a little stubborn? Seems straightforward. Does it work well for large projects? What about complex queries? I try to have as few queries as possible per page load, so I end up with some complex queries. Any thoguhts welcome. Thanks, Mary-Catherine -To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?falogin.edituserformFor more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com- -- - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
By the way, if you haven't seen it yet I have a little advice on how *not* to write code. The company I work for, Foundstone (A division of McAfee), has just release HacmeShipping. The tool was written by me, along with some support from Jeremy Allen. It shows how *not* to write CFMX 7 code under Model-Glue, though mostly from the perspective of security concerns with CFML. You can download the code from http://www.foundstone.com/resources/s3i_tools.htm along with installation instructions and an white paper, written by Jeremy, showing how various web application attacks work against the application. For some real fun, download HacmeBooks (J2EE) and HacmeBank (.Net) to see how the three work together using web services and how all of them can be attacked using similar paradigms. For someone learning CFML, this is a good tool to show you what you shouldn't be doing from a security perspective. Hopefully everyone learns something from my "mistakes"! -dhs On June 17, 2006, Charlie Arehart wrote: > Thank you for that, Dean. I'm especially pleased to hear that I've been of > help to you, seeing how much you now give back to the community. And that is > indeed the way it ought to be. I was motivated to get into user groups > because I learned so much from them, starting in the early 80's in my > mainframe career--yes, we had user groups back then, and mailing lists, and > even electricity. :-) Seriously, though, that cycle of learning and giving > back has been so valuable. > > As to Jeremy's suggestion in his earlier note regarding SQL books, I would > have to counter that Joe Celko's books are definitely more for those who > have achieved not just the basics but really is ready to go well beyond > that. Certainly great stuff, but like recommending the Gang of Four book as > someone's first foray in to Design Patterns (Head First would be a better > choice there). Instead, I'd recommend Ben Forta's "Teach Yourself SQL in 10 > Minutes". If you read the spotlight review at Amazon, mine from 2000, you'll > see why I like it so much, and it's in its 3rd edition now. > > Otherwise, Jeremy makes fine points, as confirmed and added to by Dean and > Rick. > > As for books, you mentioned Ben's CFWACK and it's indeed a classic. You can > find discounted copies of that, and The CFMX Bible (done by the Churvises, > Hal Helms, and myself), and many other good CF books (like the Oreilly one) > online. > > And don't forget the free manuals that come with CF, and more than just the > "reference". There's a real "user guide" to CF, CFML, coding, and more, > that's several hundred pages long. You can get it in print and read it > online in HTML and PDF. In CFMX 7 the manual's called the "ColdFusion MX > Developer's Guide", and in 6.1 "Developing ColdFusion MX Applications" (and > something yet again in CF5). It and all the docs are available online in PDF > and HTML form (and can even be purchased in print) at > http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/documentation.html > > Don't forget, as well, the example apps that come with CF (an option on > installation). They're not paragons of good design, but as has been conveyed > in this thread, there's learning to get started, and then there's learning > to advance. CF7 in particular has an especially nice flash-based interface > to help with its getting started resources. > > Finally, though it may be old, there was a CD produced by Allaire called the > SkillBuilder. I would bet you could find it. There's a more recent version > of something similar, a video that does cover CFMX, at: > > http://www.learnwebdevelopment.com/intro_to_coldfusion_mx.html > > I've not used either of them but the price for the latter is right to fit in > your budget. > > /charlie > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean H. Saxe > Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 4:45 PM > To: discussion@acfug.org > Subject: RE: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion > > > I'm with Jeremy on this. I'm a book learner, read a book, implement, read > more, implement more. I'm a self-taught programmer, unless you consider > taking Pascal in college in 1990 part of my career (I don't). Classes are > helpful, but they are expensive. Most classes I see on any technical area > of expertise are in the neighborhood of $750 - $1000/8 hour day. > > That having been said, the best addition to books and trying new things has > always been having a mentor to work with. Someone who knows XYZ technology > just a bit better than you so you can learn from his or her experience. My > first boss, Eric Palmer, was that person for me WRT DB design and SQL. My > next boss helped me really get my feet wet with OO and Java. WRT > application security, I was on my own for a while but eventually found some > people who have helped me grow in that space as well. I've also learned a > lot from people in ACFUG over the years too. Came
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning Cold Fusion
SQL In 10 Minutes seems like a fine book for learning the basics of SQL Syntax. What I don't see is a good grounding in Normalization and database design. The Learn SQL in 10 minutes book focuses on SQL Syntax and SQL Queries. That is good... you DO need to know all of that and I suppose a structured approach to learning the syntax and basics is required. I also willingly admit that the Celko book is pretty out there in terms of skill level for a lot of the topics covered. You will save yourself a LOT of pain by understanding proper database design and normalization early on. Its not a difficult thing to get a handle on. If your average developer just knew 1NF, 2NF and 3NF better database designs on the whole would be a lot better. You can probably find enough on the normal forms just by searching the Internet. Once again Wikipedia is a good start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization. I only bring it up because it is quite often overlooked and it is a critical piece in my mind. Enough on that. Come to the ACFUG meetings as often as you can and get to know people. Look at all of the open source code out there in CF. There is not a ton of open source CF code but there is enough. Get to know the community, you won't find a much better development community than the CF community. When I started with ColdFusion years ago these lists were the best resources out there for learning things and tackling tough and relatively esoteric problems and they still are today. Chances are whatever problem you are having has been solved many times over and you need but ask. You may ask a question that 100 other people have asked and those of us that have seen the question may groan at it and start thinking, "Jeez" RTFM, however, you will find your question is still answered even if it is a link to ColdFusion documentation pointing out that oh so "obvious" function or tag that solves your problem (that is my way of saying "there aren't usually stupid questions only stupid answers"). And if I didn't impress this upon you well enough in my first post: start writing code! It doesn't have to be perfect. Once you start writing code you can start breaking things and we will have more concrete advice to give you ;-) Good night all.. sleep awaits. Jeremy - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by FusionLink -
