Re: impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

> - are people consciously talking about the problem in other communities?

Yes, and I think I also talked about this in "android" mailing list of
FSFE, although I discussed the broader problem of recommending only some
nodes of federated networks specifically simply because of personal
preference or usage --- /i.e./: without clear rules for inclusion.

> - given the high percentage of people using Gmail, would it be
> reasonable to take countermeasures, for example, when somebody registers
> for an event, refusing to let them use a gmail address and giving them a
> link to a page with more details about the problem?

At least in the Hyperbola mailing lists, I recall that they opted to
block subscriptions that come from the known federation offenders, but
not dueo to federation issues, but due to privacy, see [1][2].

> - is there any particularly good web page we can point people to
> explaining the Gmail problem and giving them a concise list of
> alternatives so they can migrate quickly?

Point to the references under "Further details" in [1].

[1] 
.

[2] In [1], the links in "Further details" were given by me. Also, the
one from FSF is updated now.

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Re: impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Florian Snow]

Hi Daniel,


Daniel Pocock  writes:
> There are several cases where people told me this particularly bad
> behaviour, together with some specific example of how it impacted
> them, was enough to make them give up on hotmail but in each case they
> had migrated to gmail.

The reason might be that people want a nice webmailer and while Google
does filter the mail if they think it is a promotion (and some of our
mails are of a promotional nature), they do not harrass people like
Microsoft/Hotmail do.  Google will usually accept email from personal
mail servers and if they don't, they give you a clear reason.  So at
least from that perspective, their behavior is fine.

Happy hacking!
Florian
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Re: impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Cornelia S.]

I can recommend Protonmail, it works very well with linux!

​Regards,
Cornelia



 Original Message 
 On January 25, 2018 10:09 AM, Daniel Pocock  wrote:

>
> There was a discussion in one community recently about essential emails
> not reaching new contributors because they get stuck in the Gmail
> "promotions" tab.
>
> This is quite concerning, for example, when Debian sends out the yearly
> announcement for DebConf travel grants / bursaries, if only the regular
> participants receive that email it undermines renewal and diversity in
> the organization.
>
> It is even worse if sending people an email that their talk proposal or
> travel grant is accepted and they don't see that email.
>
> I have a few questions about this:
>
> - are other communities who operate mailing lists or send announcements
> noticing a similar problem, for example, announcements not reaching
> people or lower participation in email discussions?
>
>
> - are people noticing it in their capacity as Gmail users / recipients
> of email?
>
>
> - are people consciously talking about the problem in other communities?
>
>
> - given the high percentage of people using Gmail, would it be
> reasonable to take countermeasures, for example, when somebody registers
> for an event, refusing to let them use a gmail address and giving them a
> link to a page with more details about the problem?
>
>
> - is there any particularly good web page we can point people to
> explaining the Gmail problem and giving them a concise list of
> alternatives so they can migrate quickly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Daniel
>
>Discussion mailing list
>Discussion@lists.fsfe.org
>https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
>

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Re: impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Daniel Pocock]

On 25/01/18 13:38, Mat Witts wrote:
> It doesn't seem to me to be a great strategy to single out gmail when
> Microsoft's hotmail/live/outlook mailservers regularly fail to notify
> recipients that they have not delivered mail under the rule that
> 'Deliverability to Outlook.com is based on your reputation'. Mailserver
> admins are then encouraged to sign up for a microsoft account to help
> microsoft generate up to date metrics on mailservers. I am sure other
> major proprietary systems take similar 'closed-world' assumptions about
> transporting email?
> 
> https://postmaster.live.com/snds/

It is interesting that you raise the hotmail example

There are several cases where people told me this particularly bad
behaviour, together with some specific example of how it impacted them,
was enough to make them give up on hotmail but in each case they had
migrated to gmail.

Regards,

Daniel
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Re: impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Stephane Ascoet]

Le 25/01/2018 à 11:09, Daniel Pocock a écrit :


There was a discussion in one community recently about essential emails
not reaching new contributors because they get stuck in the Gmail
"promotions" tab.



Hi, the "Free" FAI(no related in away way with libre computer science 
movement, 
) 
does the same thing and have got aggressive anti-spam filters too making 
valuables mails never reach.

--
Cordialement, Stephane Ascoet
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impact of Gmail's "promotions" tab on free software communities

[Daniel Pocock]

There was a discussion in one community recently about essential emails
not reaching new contributors because they get stuck in the Gmail
"promotions" tab.

This is quite concerning, for example, when Debian sends out the yearly
announcement for DebConf travel grants / bursaries, if only the regular
participants receive that email it undermines renewal and diversity in
the organization.

It is even worse if sending people an email that their talk proposal or
travel grant is accepted and they don't see that email.

I have a few questions about this:

- are other communities who operate mailing lists or send announcements
noticing a similar problem, for example, announcements not reaching
people or lower participation in email discussions?

- are people noticing it in their capacity as Gmail users / recipients
of email?

- are people consciously talking about the problem in other communities?

- given the high percentage of people using Gmail, would it be
reasonable to take countermeasures, for example, when somebody registers
for an event, refusing to let them use a gmail address and giving them a
link to a page with more details about the problem?

- is there any particularly good web page we can point people to
explaining the Gmail problem and giving them a concise list of
alternatives so they can migrate quickly?

Regards,

Daniel
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