Re: [Distutils] Distutils on embedded devices - was Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On 2009-07-29 18:44, David Lyon wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:36:49 -0500, Robert Kern wrote: I am not complaining about anything. I am disputing your assertion that "3rd party packages don't impact the size of the whole python installation that much." That's not a universally true statement. ok but is it a real problem or a perceived problem ? If it's a real problem then spend some time to trim some fat.. or spend an extra $20 and get a bigger memory card.. At least your embedded device isn't a 4k one... then we could moan and groan together about the bad old good old days I really don't know enough about your hardware to say any more... I'm not on an embedded device. I don't have a particular problem that I am asking you to solve. I am challenging your assumption that third party packages don't impact the size of the whole Python installation. It's just not true. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distutils on embedded devices - was Cache P YTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:36:49 -0500, Robert Kern wrote: > I am not complaining about anything. I am disputing your assertion that > "3rd > party packages don't impact the size of the whole python installation > that much." That's not a universally true statement. ok but is it a real problem or a perceived problem ? If it's a real problem then spend some time to trim some fat.. or spend an extra $20 and get a bigger memory card.. At least your embedded device isn't a 4k one... then we could moan and groan together about the bad old good old days I really don't know enough about your hardware to say any more... David ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Distutils on embedded devices - was Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On 2009-07-29 18:20, David Lyon wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:58:13 -0500, Robert Kern wrote: My site-packages directory would like a word with you: [~]$ cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current [Current]$ du -hsc . 1.5G. 1.5Gtotal [Current]$ du -hsc lib/python2.5/site-packages 1.4Glib/python2.5/site-packages 1.4Gtotal ok - so what are you complaining about? you have a 1.4G drive or more... I am not complaining about anything. I am disputing your assertion that "3rd party packages don't impact the size of the whole python installation that much." That's not a universally true statement. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
[Distutils] Distutils on embedded devices - was Cache P YTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:58:13 -0500, Robert Kern wrote: > My site-packages directory would like a word with you: > > [~]$ cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current > [Current]$ du -hsc . > 1.5G. > 1.5Gtotal > [Current]$ du -hsc lib/python2.5/site-packages > 1.4Glib/python2.5/site-packages > 1.4Gtotal ok - so what are you complaining about? you have a 1.4G drive or more... It's probably a flash memory drive.. Anyway, I only do a package manager. I've never tried on an embedded device.. I can't imagine anybody typing opening a command prompt on a tiny screen and typing setup.py What is the go there with package installation.. ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 09:37:17 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: 2009/7/29 Jeff Rush : Hi David. Not just your post but others here are making assumptions on your own working environment. Yes there are systems you need to save disk space on, yes there are systems where you care about I/O performance. These are embedded systems. Exactly. But the fact still is that these systems are the specialized case today, so lets stop optimizing the *default* settings for them. And the benefit of defaulting to zipped eggs is that it enforces on the developer the discipline of writing his packages to use pkg_resources instead of file I/O No, it just forces the developer to set zip_safe to False. +1. Python offers too many convenient ways to do it "wrong". Zipped eggs break deployments. They don't make developers write code that works in that environment. Such code only gets written when developers choose to care about such cases. If you want Python to excel in these areas, you need to convince developers to care. Jean-Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On 2009-07-29 16:47, David Lyon wrote: Anyway, you're kindof biting the hairs on the tail here.. because 3rd party packages don't impact the size of the whole python installation that much. My site-packages directory would like a word with you: [~]$ cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current [Current]$ du -hsc . 1.5G. 1.5Gtotal [Current]$ du -hsc lib/python2.5/site-packages 1.4Glib/python2.5/site-packages 1.4Gtotal -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:34:11 -0500, Jeff Rush wrote: > Hi David. Not just your post but others here are making assumptions on > your own working environment. Yes there are systems you need to save > disk space on, yes there are systems where you care about I/O > performance. These are embedded systems. Maybe you too are making the assumption that I've never worked on such devices.. :-) I have.. > This attitude of allowing Python to always grow larger is prevalent on > the core developers list as well, where they are removing the ability to > compile Python selectively to drop out those portions not needed on a > platform. ok. But people want to add their own code.. rarely do they want to take away.. people resist if their code is taken away.. > Pardon the rant. I just get frustrated when people believe that the > path forward is faster and bigger systems on our desktops when actually > desktops are dying and will be rare in ten years. Only because motherboards will be embedded into the monitors more and more often.. Anyway, you're kindof biting the hairs on the tail here.. because 3rd party packages don't impact the size of the whole python installation that much. Still, it's an interesting point... David ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] idea for Distribute: make unzipped eggs be the default
2009/7/29 Leonardo Santagada : > I think P.J. Eby is right, we need to test it before analising the results > we don't have. No we don't, because zipped eggs are such a pain that speed is irrelevant in comparison. Those who *do* care about minor improvements in startup speed can test. And then they can set their settings to install eggs zipped by default. -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Cache PYTHONPATH? (Re: make unzipped eggs be the default)
2009/7/29 Jeff Rush : > Hi David. Not just your post but others here are making assumptions on > your own working environment. Yes there are systems you need to save > disk space on, yes there are systems where you care about I/O > performance. These are embedded systems. Exactly. But the fact still is that these systems are the specialized case today, so lets stop optimizing the *default* settings for them. > And the benefit of defaulting to zipped eggs is that it enforces on the > developer the discipline of writing his packages to use pkg_resources > instead of file I/O No, it just forces the developer to set zip_safe to False. -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
