Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
Donald Stufft wrote: For RDP on OSX, Microsoft has a free RDP app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-remote-desktop/id715768417 And here's another one that I find to be slightly better: http://cord.sourceforge.net/ -- Greg ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Kevin Horn wrote: > Regarding remote access to windows machines, there are several options: > > - Remote powershell (not my area, so not sure how viable this is) > - Use pexec from sysinternals to run cmd.exe remotely (probably on local > network only, and only from other windows machines, so probably not that > helpful) > - Windows comes with a telnet server (obviously not very secure, but you > could use stunnel/vpn or similar to help here) > - WinRM (and pywinrm as has been mentioned). Note that vagrant either > does or will soon support talking to Windows VMs using this method. > It does (and has for a while). We at Enthought automate package builds for linux, mac and windows through fabric (+ winrm on windows) on vagrant-built VMs, and it works well when you need a consistent interface to those environments. We have been building packages as involved as Qt, Pyside or scipy with native MS tools through this way, so I am confident this would work for almost every situation of interest here. David ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
Regarding remote access to windows machines, there are several options: - Remote powershell (not my area, so not sure how viable this is) - Use pexec from sysinternals to run cmd.exe remotely (probably on local network only, and only from other windows machines, so probably not that helpful) - Windows comes with a telnet server (obviously not very secure, but you could use stunnel/vpn or similar to help here) - WinRM (and pywinrm as has been mentioned). Note that vagrant either does or will soon support talking to Windows VMs using this method. - SSH: it is possible to set up an ssh server to work on Windows, but is...non-trivial (i.e. hard) and many caveats apply. See freesshd or KpyM. There are also some GUI options: - RDP - the venerable VNC Obvioiusly the GUI options are more difficult to automate. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 6:28 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 9 November 2014 12:21, Tim Golden wrote: > > I think the OP was speaking not so much about having the technical > > wherewithal to use RDP but rather about the experience of RDP vs SSH. > > That was certainly my understanding. The key issue for me is to try to > make the process of just running "pip wheel myproject" or "pip wheel > git+https://github.com/me/myproject"; as simple and painless as > possible for people without Windows experience. > > That's somewhat optimistic, because if the command fails with an > error, the developer is still going to need to work out how to debug > why the code isn't portable, etc. But that's a whole different > situation, and well out of scope. > > > The > > difficulty is that Windows doesn't really "think" in ssh. I believe there > > are (third-party) mechanisms to provide ssh-like access, but I don't know > > how successful they really are. > > Yeah, that's where things like cygwin probably won't work well, > because you don't get the "normal" Windows environment. But it might > be possible - after all, see above - it's really only a few simple > commands we need to support. > > Paul > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig > -- -- Kevin Horn ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 09/11/2014 12:13, Vinay Sajip wrote: Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access Windows machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative tools available (such as remmina). I think the OP was speaking not so much about having the technical wherewithal to use RDP but rather about the experience of RDP vs SSH. The difficulty is that Windows doesn't really "think" in ssh. I believe there are (third-party) mechanisms to provide ssh-like access, but I don't know how successful they really are. TJG ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] pypi.python.org forces SSL?
On 9 November 2014 14:51, Donald Stufft wrote: > No, there are no URLs on PyPI which support being accessed by anything > other than via TLS. You could probably run some sort of local proxy (or something like devpi) that serves pypi content over http. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 November 2014 14:44, Donald Stufft wrote: > For RDP on OSX, Microsoft has a free RDP app: > https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-remote-desktop/id715768417 Yeah, I don't think RDP is *technically* an issue. There are Linux RDP apps as well. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] pypi.python.org forces SSL?
> On Nov 8, 2014, at 4:04 PM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > > Hello, > > I see that nowadays trying to access http://pypi.python.org (including > any URL beneath it) unconditionally redirects to > https://pypi.python.org. I'm trying to access it using system which > doesn't have SSL support and cannot easily have (embedded, size > constraints). Is there any way to access PyPI metadata/tarballs using > plain HTTP? No, there are no URLs on PyPI which support being accessed by anything other than via TLS. --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
> On Nov 9, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote: > >> Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very > >> Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but > > > > > Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access Windows > machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative tools > available (such as remmina). > > Regards, > > Vinay Sajip > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig For RDP on OSX, Microsoft has a free RDP app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-remote-desktop/id715768417 --- Donald Stufft PGP: 7C6B 7C5D 5E2B 6356 A926 F04F 6E3C BCE9 3372 DCFA ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 November 2014 13:04, David Cournapeau wrote: > Regarding winrm, note that it can be fairly complicated to set it up on the > windows side. For my simple test, "winrm quickconfig" worked OK. Having said all this, though, I'm not sure that hiding the Windows environment this thoroughly is productive. If you just want to build wheels, and you don't intend to be debugging Windows issues on the Windows box, then Appveyor is probably more appropriate (see https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/appveyor.html). If you want an actual Windows environment, surely you expect to need to log onto it? Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 November 2014 12:40, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Underlying library: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pywinrm Wow - that sounds awesome. Not that I can get it working yet, looks like WinRM might need some setting up (and/or VirtualBox networking is getting in the way :-() But that is definitely something I'll be looking at. Thanks, Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
Regarding winrm, note that it can be fairly complicated to set it up on the windows side. I can confirm it works well, though. We're using an internal hack of fabric to communicate from linux to windows through winrm at work, and it does the job. David On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 9 Nov 2014 22:28, "Nick Coghlan" wrote: > > > > > > On 9 Nov 2014 22:16, "Vinay Sajip" wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is > very > > > > > > > Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access > Windows machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative > tools available (such as remmina). > > > > For automated scripting from a *nix host, it's also worth noting that > Ansible supports remote control of Windows systems, and the underlying > Python libraries for that connectivity are also open source (they talk to > the native Windows remote control interfaces, so they don't need anything > special on the target system). > > Oops, forgot the link: http://docs.ansible.com/intro_windows.html > > Underlying library: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pywinrm > > Cheers, > Nick. > > > > > Cheers, > > Nick. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Vinay Sajip > > > ___ > > > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig > > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig > > ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 November 2014 12:28, Nick Coghlan wrote: > For automated scripting from a *nix host, it's also worth noting that > Ansible supports remote control of Windows systems, and the underlying > Python libraries for that connectivity are also open source (they talk to > the native Windows remote control interfaces, so they don't need anything > special on the target system). I would *love* to be able to set up something like that (I believe Salt has Windows support as well - I hadn't realised Ansible did). But that would involve me learning a big chunk of Unix sysop stuff, as well as having a number of machines to play with. Not enough hours in the day, unfortunately. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 Nov 2014 22:28, "Nick Coghlan" wrote: > > > On 9 Nov 2014 22:16, "Vinay Sajip" wrote: > > > > > Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very > > > > > Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but > > > > > > > > > > Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access Windows machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative tools available (such as remmina). > > For automated scripting from a *nix host, it's also worth noting that Ansible supports remote control of Windows systems, and the underlying Python libraries for that connectivity are also open source (they talk to the native Windows remote control interfaces, so they don't need anything special on the target system). Oops, forgot the link: http://docs.ansible.com/intro_windows.html Underlying library: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pywinrm Cheers, Nick. > > Cheers, > Nick. > > > > > Regards, > > > > Vinay Sajip > > ___ > > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 November 2014 12:21, Tim Golden wrote: > I think the OP was speaking not so much about having the technical > wherewithal to use RDP but rather about the experience of RDP vs SSH. That was certainly my understanding. The key issue for me is to try to make the process of just running "pip wheel myproject" or "pip wheel git+https://github.com/me/myproject"; as simple and painless as possible for people without Windows experience. That's somewhat optimistic, because if the command fails with an error, the developer is still going to need to work out how to debug why the code isn't portable, etc. But that's a whole different situation, and well out of scope. > The > difficulty is that Windows doesn't really "think" in ssh. I believe there > are (third-party) mechanisms to provide ssh-like access, but I don't know > how successful they really are. Yeah, that's where things like cygwin probably won't work well, because you don't get the "normal" Windows environment. But it might be possible - after all, see above - it's really only a few simple commands we need to support. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 9 Nov 2014 22:16, "Vinay Sajip" wrote: > > > Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very > > > Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but > > > > > Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access Windows machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative tools available (such as remmina). For automated scripting from a *nix host, it's also worth noting that Ansible supports remote control of Windows systems, and the underlying Python libraries for that connectivity are also open source (they talk to the native Windows remote control interfaces, so they don't need anything special on the target system). Cheers, Nick. > > Regards, > > Vinay Sajip > ___ > Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
> Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very > Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but Not uncommon, AFAIK. For example, I use rdesktop on Lubuntu to access Windows machines via RDP, and it seems fairly stable. There are alternative tools available (such as remmina). Regards, Vinay Sajip ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 7 November 2014 16:15, Jonathan Helmus wrote: > This sounds like a very useful project. I do most my development in Linux > or OS X but occasionally spin up a Windows VM locally or in the cloud to > produce some Python wheels or conda packages. The one annoyance I find is > that I need to use an RDP client to connect to the instance as opposed to > using ssh as I do when connecting to a Unix machine. If the VM could > support ssh connections this would reduce this burden. I am not familiar > enough with Windows to know how feasible this is but it would allow Unix > users to use the tools they are likely already familiar with. Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I agree, the need for RDP is very Windows-specific - I don't know how common RDP tools are for Unix, but I can easily imagine it's a nuisance to set one up. I'm not aware of any ssh implementations for Windows (other than cygwin, which probably has other issues) but I'll see what I can find. Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
Re: [Distutils] Call for information - What assumptions can I make about Unix users' access to Windows?
On 11/07/2014 09:46 AM, Paul Moore wrote: I'm in the process of developing an automated solution to allow users to quickly set up a Windows box so that it can be used to compile Python extensions and build wheels. While it can obviously be used by Windows developers who want to quickly set up a box, my main target is Unix developers who want to provide wheels for Windows users. To that end, I'd like to get an idea of what sort of access to Windows a typical Unix developer would have. I'm particularly interested in whether Windows XP/Vista is still in use, and whether you're likely to already have Python and/or any development tools installed. Ideally, a clean Windows 7 or later virtual machine is the best environment, but I don't know if it's reasonable to assume that. Another alternative is to have an Amazon EC2 AMI prebuilt, and users can just create an instance based on it. That seems pretty easy to do from my perspective but I don't know if the connectivity process (remote desktop) is a problem for Unix developers. Any feedback would be extremely useful. I'm at a point where I can pretty easily set up any of these options, but if they don't turn out to actually be usable by the target audience, it's a bit of a waste of time! :-) Thanks, Paul ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig Paul, This sounds like a very useful project. I do most my development in Linux or OS X but occasionally spin up a Windows VM locally or in the cloud to produce some Python wheels or conda packages. The one annoyance I find is that I need to use an RDP client to connect to the instance as opposed to using ssh as I do when connecting to a Unix machine. If the VM could support ssh connections this would reduce this burden. I am not familiar enough with Windows to know how feasible this is but it would allow Unix users to use the tools they are likely already familiar with. - Jonathan Helmus ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
[Distutils] pypi.python.org forces SSL?
Hello, I see that nowadays trying to access http://pypi.python.org (including any URL beneath it) unconditionally redirects to https://pypi.python.org. I'm trying to access it using system which doesn't have SSL support and cannot easily have (embedded, size constraints). Is there any way to access PyPI metadata/tarballs using plain HTTP? Thanks, Paul mailto:pmis...@gmail.com ___ Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig
