Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Nick Coghlan]

On 1 November 2015 at 02:08, Barry Warsaw  wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Marcus Smith wrote:
>
>>> If python-dev ends up adopting GitLab for the main PEPs repo, then we
>>> should be able to move the whole process there, rather than needing to
>>> maintain a separate copy.
>>>
>>will that be as open as pypa/interoperability-peps?  if it's closed off such
>>that only python devs can log PRs against PEPs once they're in the system,
>>then that's no fun.  If so, I'd still want to keep pypa/interoperability-peps
>>as the front end tool for the actual change management.
>
> The way I believe it would work via GitLab is that anybody can fork the repo,
> push branches to their fork, and file PRs against the PEPs repo.  Pushing to
> the PEPs repo would be gated via privileged members of the repo's owner,
> either via git push or button push (i.e. "hey website, I'm chillin' on the
> beach with my tablet so do the merge for me!")

Exactly. The case can be made it would be more open than GitHub, since
folks should be able to log in with any of the identity providers
GitLab supports: http://doc.gitlab.com/ce/integration/omniauth.html

One of the relevant benefits of migrating to a full repository
management server (whether that's GitHub or GitLab)  is that we'll be
able to get away from the current manual approach to managing SSH keys
in favour of people uploading their own keys after authenticating with
the main web interface.

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
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Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Barry Warsaw]

On Oct 29, 2015, at 10:52 PM, Marcus Smith wrote:

>> If python-dev ends up adopting GitLab for the main PEPs repo, then we
>> should be able to move the whole process there, rather than needing to
>> maintain a separate copy.
>>
>will that be as open as pypa/interoperability-peps?  if it's closed off such
>that only python devs can log PRs against PEPs once they're in the system,
>then that's no fun.  If so, I'd still want to keep pypa/interoperability-peps
>as the front end tool for the actual change management.

The way I believe it would work via GitLab is that anybody can fork the repo,
push branches to their fork, and file PRs against the PEPs repo.  Pushing to
the PEPs repo would be gated via privileged members of the repo's owner,
either via git push or button push (i.e. "hey website, I'm chillin' on the
beach with my tablet so do the merge for me!")

Cheers,
-Barry


pgpkmAGBbce9s.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Brett Cannon]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 at 22:53 Marcus Smith  wrote:

>
>
>> If python-dev ends up adopting GitLab for the main PEPs repo, then we
>> should be able to move the whole process there, rather than needing to
>> maintain a separate copy.
>>
> will that be as open as pypa/interoperability-peps?
>

Proof of concept and final proposal isn't in front of me yet so it isn't
known. I think Nick's hope is that it will be as open.

-Brett


> if it's closed off such that only python devs can log PRs against PEPs
> once they're in the system, then that's no fun.
> If so, I'd still want to keep pypa/interoperability-peps as the front end
> tool for the actual change management.
>
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Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Robert Collins]

On 28 October 2015 at 18:02, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Marcus Smith  writes:
>
>> 1) *Please*, *please*, *please* let's start doing PEP conversations as
>> PRs to pypa/interoperability-peps : )
>
> Please keep the conversation on a mailing list where one can participate
> without needing to sign up with any particular service provider.

One has to sign up with the mailing list, so there's no functional
difference there.

> Your proposal would have the effect of excluding people from the
> conversation if they don't agree to have a GitHub account. I think it's
> valuable to avoid that barrier to entry, needing only an email account.

They can always reply to emails.

-Rob


-- 
Robert Collins 
Distinguished Technologist
HP Converged Cloud
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Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Marcus Smith]

my intention certainly wasn't to try to exclude anybody.  for me, it's the
practical matter of the PR UI being more effective than a mailing list
thread (in this case referring to a gist), and that we can track proposals
easier and link to them from issues (in that same repo) and other PyPA
docs.

also, to be clear, this isn't about thinking PyPA would sidestep the PEP
approval process all together.  It's about managing drafts, reviews and
updates into that process.

certainly, this isn't my decision alone to make this change... just stating
my preference, and hoping to get others to agree.   Part of my motivation
for bringing it up, was do due to trying write a "PyPA Roadmap" recently
for pypa.io, and wanting it to be easier to track and link to ideas that
people are coming up with (ideas that don't immediately start as draft PEPs)

--Marcus


On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Ben Finney 
wrote:

> Marcus Smith  writes:
>
> > 1) *Please*, *please*, *please* let's start doing PEP conversations as
> > PRs to pypa/interoperability-peps : )
>
> Please keep the conversation on a mailing list where one can participate
> without needing to sign up with any particular service provider.
>
> Your proposal would have the effect of excluding people from the
> conversation if they don't agree to have a GitHub account. I think it's
> valuable to avoid that barrier to entry, needing only an email account.
>
> --
>  \   “'Tis strange, — but true; for truth is always strange; / |
>   `\Stranger than fiction.” —“Lord” George Gordon Noel Byron, _Don |
> _o__)Juan_ |
> Ben Finney
>
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Re: [Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Nick Coghlan]

On 28 Oct 2015 09:32, "Marcus Smith"  wrote:
>
> my intention certainly wasn't to try to exclude anybody.  for me, it's
the practical matter of the PR UI being more effective than a mailing list
thread (in this case referring to a gist), and that we can track proposals
easier and link to them from issues (in that same repo) and other PyPA docs.
>
> also, to be clear, this isn't about thinking PyPA would sidestep the PEP
approval process all together.  It's about managing drafts, reviews and
updates into that process.
>
> certainly, this isn't my decision alone to make this change... just
stating my preference, and hoping to get others to agree.   Part of my
motivation for bringing it up, was do due to trying write a "PyPA Roadmap"
recently for pypa.io, and wanting it to be easier to track and link to
ideas that people are coming up with (ideas that don't immediately start as
draft PEPs)

I'd certainly like us to move line by line comments (etc) to the
interoperability PEPs repo.

Overall design discussions would stay here on the mailing list, and if
folks submitting PEPs don't want to create a GitHub account, they can send
them here and we'll create the PR on their behalf.

If python-dev ends up adopting GitLab for the main PEPs repo, then we
should be able to move the whole process there, rather than needing to
maintain a separate copy.

Cheers,
Nick.

>
> --Marcus
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Ben Finney 
wrote:
>>
>> Marcus Smith  writes:
>>
>> > 1) *Please*, *please*, *please* let's start doing PEP conversations as
>> > PRs to pypa/interoperability-peps : )
>>
>> Please keep the conversation on a mailing list where one can participate
>> without needing to sign up with any particular service provider.
>>
>> Your proposal would have the effect of excluding people from the
>> conversation if they don't agree to have a GitHub account. I think it's
>> valuable to avoid that barrier to entry, needing only an email account.
>>
>> --
>>  \   “'Tis strange, — but true; for truth is always strange; / |
>>   `\Stranger than fiction.” —“Lord” George Gordon Noel Byron, _Don |
>> _o__)Juan_ |
>> Ben Finney
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
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[Distutils] Please don't impose additional barriers to participation (was: build system abstraction PEP)

[Ben Finney]

Marcus Smith  writes:

> 1) *Please*, *please*, *please* let's start doing PEP conversations as
> PRs to pypa/interoperability-peps : )

Please keep the conversation on a mailing list where one can participate
without needing to sign up with any particular service provider.

Your proposal would have the effect of excluding people from the
conversation if they don't agree to have a GitHub account. I think it's
valuable to avoid that barrier to entry, needing only an email account.

-- 
 \   “'Tis strange, — but true; for truth is always strange; / |
  `\Stranger than fiction.” —“Lord” George Gordon Noel Byron, _Don |
_o__)Juan_ |
Ben Finney

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