Re: [Diversity-talk] How do you mapping gender neutral toilets? What should the unisex tag mean?

[Rory McCann]

My proposal improves the meaning (IMO). A "unisex hairdresser" is like a 
"unisex toilet": all people, regardless of gender, facilitated in the 
same mixed place. Not many unisex hairdressers are gender segregated, 
with males in one room, and women in another! My proposal is that 
"unisex=yes" always means "all genders, and not segregated"


On 25/04/18 04:58, Marc Gemis wrote:
FYI The unisex tag is also used as a shorthand for female=yes,  male=yes 
on shop=hairdresser [1] . Giving it another meaning on toilets might 
cause extra confusion.



regards

m

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=hairdresser

Op di 24 apr. 2018 18:27 schreef Rory McCann >:


Hi all,

Let's have a wee talk about how should one map gender neutral (and
gender segregated) toilets. There is a unisex=yes for toilets which
looks like it might be the number one tag to use. The bog standard
meaning of "unisex toilet"[1] is a gender neutral toilet, i.e. not
segregated into separate male & female facilities.

Many smaller public toilets are single occupancy and hence unisex, many
larger public toilets (e.g. in shopping centers) are segregated. Social
conservatives are mostly losing the battle on same-sex marriage, so
their new target is trans people, and they're proposing "bathroom laws"
to limit trans people's access to public life. Some organizations are
making their toilets "gender neutral" in response. So there are probably
a lot of gender neutral public toilets, and it's very useful for some
people to know where they are.

But I don't think that's how "unisex=yes" been used in OSM. The wiki
page says "unisex=yes" is a shorthand for "male=yes female=yes". The
JOSM validator used to suggest that replacement, until I filed a bug[2].
iD's preset has 3 mutually exclusive options, Male, Female and Unisex,
it won't let you add both male=yes female=yes.

If I see "amenity=toilets unisex=yes", I would think this is a gender
neutral toilet. If I see "amenity=toilets female=yes male=yes" I would
think gender segregated. Big difference.

I propose that we start viewing "unisex=yes" on toilets as meaning
"gender neutral toilet", which is different from "male=yes female=yes",
which is "gender segregated".

Thoughts? Feedback? Anything I'm missing? Is unisex-yes tag being used
by many projects? What do they interpret it as? It's good not to force
things.

A year ago Micah Cochran's suggestion[3] would be along these lines, but
some changed to toilets:for:unisex=yes (etc.)

Rory

P.S. I am doing this as part of the "Diversity Quarterly Project"[4],
which for the quarter is gendered toilets. Plenty of toilets have no
male/female (and/or unisex) tag, and we should add those tags.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet
[2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15536
[3]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Toilet_Tagging_Improvements
[4]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity_Quarterly_Project/2018_Q2

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Re: [Diversity-talk] How do you mapping gender neutral toilets? What should the unisex tag mean?

[Marc Gemis]

FYI The unisex tag is also used as a shorthand for female=yes,  male=yes on
shop=hairdresser [1] . Giving it another meaning on toilets might cause
extra confusion.


regards

m

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop=hairdresser

Op di 24 apr. 2018 18:27 schreef Rory McCann :

> Hi all,
>
> Let's have a wee talk about how should one map gender neutral (and
> gender segregated) toilets. There is a unisex=yes for toilets which
> looks like it might be the number one tag to use. The bog standard
> meaning of "unisex toilet"[1] is a gender neutral toilet, i.e. not
> segregated into separate male & female facilities.
>
> Many smaller public toilets are single occupancy and hence unisex, many
> larger public toilets (e.g. in shopping centers) are segregated. Social
> conservatives are mostly losing the battle on same-sex marriage, so
> their new target is trans people, and they're proposing "bathroom laws"
> to limit trans people's access to public life. Some organizations are
> making their toilets "gender neutral" in response. So there are probably
> a lot of gender neutral public toilets, and it's very useful for some
> people to know where they are.
>
> But I don't think that's how "unisex=yes" been used in OSM. The wiki
> page says "unisex=yes" is a shorthand for "male=yes female=yes". The
> JOSM validator used to suggest that replacement, until I filed a bug[2].
> iD's preset has 3 mutually exclusive options, Male, Female and Unisex,
> it won't let you add both male=yes female=yes.
>
> If I see "amenity=toilets unisex=yes", I would think this is a gender
> neutral toilet. If I see "amenity=toilets female=yes male=yes" I would
> think gender segregated. Big difference.
>
> I propose that we start viewing "unisex=yes" on toilets as meaning
> "gender neutral toilet", which is different from "male=yes female=yes",
> which is "gender segregated".
>
> Thoughts? Feedback? Anything I'm missing? Is unisex-yes tag being used
> by many projects? What do they interpret it as? It's good not to force
> things.
>
> A year ago Micah Cochran's suggestion[3] would be along these lines, but
> some changed to toilets:for:unisex=yes (etc.)
>
> Rory
>
> P.S. I am doing this as part of the "Diversity Quarterly Project"[4],
> which for the quarter is gendered toilets. Plenty of toilets have no
> male/female (and/or unisex) tag, and we should add those tags.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet
> [2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15536
> [3]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Toilet_Tagging_Improvements
> [4]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity_Quarterly_Project/2018_Q2
>
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Re: [Diversity-talk] How do you mapping gender neutral toilets? What should the unisex tag mean?

[Hannah Cohoon]

I was just adding some unisex bathrooms and was following the
toilets:for:unisex=yes method. However, I agree that unisex=yes is more
intuitive to mean "unisex bathroom" not "male=yes female=yes" and it's more
pithy than what I've been doing. I also just joined the project and had
initially assumed unisex=yes was correct until I saw the information here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Toilet_Tagging_Improvements
.

All that is to say, I support assuming unisex=yes means gender neutral and
think revising the wiki would be appropriate.


On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:27 AM Rory McCann  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Let's have a wee talk about how should one map gender neutral (and
> gender segregated) toilets. There is a unisex=yes for toilets which
> looks like it might be the number one tag to use. The bog standard
> meaning of "unisex toilet"[1] is a gender neutral toilet, i.e. not
> segregated into separate male & female facilities.
>
> Many smaller public toilets are single occupancy and hence unisex, many
> larger public toilets (e.g. in shopping centers) are segregated. Social
> conservatives are mostly losing the battle on same-sex marriage, so
> their new target is trans people, and they're proposing "bathroom laws"
> to limit trans people's access to public life. Some organizations are
> making their toilets "gender neutral" in response. So there are probably
> a lot of gender neutral public toilets, and it's very useful for some
> people to know where they are.
>
> But I don't think that's how "unisex=yes" been used in OSM. The wiki
> page says "unisex=yes" is a shorthand for "male=yes female=yes". The
> JOSM validator used to suggest that replacement, until I filed a bug[2].
> iD's preset has 3 mutually exclusive options, Male, Female and Unisex,
> it won't let you add both male=yes female=yes.
>
> If I see "amenity=toilets unisex=yes", I would think this is a gender
> neutral toilet. If I see "amenity=toilets female=yes male=yes" I would
> think gender segregated. Big difference.
>
> I propose that we start viewing "unisex=yes" on toilets as meaning
> "gender neutral toilet", which is different from "male=yes female=yes",
> which is "gender segregated".
>
> Thoughts? Feedback? Anything I'm missing? Is unisex-yes tag being used
> by many projects? What do they interpret it as? It's good not to force
> things.
>
> A year ago Micah Cochran's suggestion[3] would be along these lines, but
> some changed to toilets:for:unisex=yes (etc.)
>
> Rory
>
> P.S. I am doing this as part of the "Diversity Quarterly Project"[4],
> which for the quarter is gendered toilets. Plenty of toilets have no
> male/female (and/or unisex) tag, and we should add those tags.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet
> [2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/15536
> [3]
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Toilet_Tagging_Improvements
> [4]
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity_Quarterly_Project/2018_Q2
>
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> Diversity-talk mailing list
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> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
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-- 

Doctoral Student

School of Information at UT Austin

UTA 5.544
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