Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Marc Tamlyn]

+1 to what Tim said. Most Django sites performance problems are not at the
level of the python code running, rather inefficient
databases/caching/templates etc. If your core logic is comparatively slow
you're already past a basic optimisation guide. Keep it simple, and
BENCHMARK.
On 13 Sep 2013 19:11, "Tim Graham"  wrote:

> I feel like we open a can of worms if we go down this road. Where do we
> draw the line between what we do and don't mention regarding *Python*
> optimization? The Django docs don't need to layout the current state of the
> Python ecosystem IMO. I don't doubt the info is helpful, but I don't think
> Django's docs is the right place for it. There are many Python web
> frameworks out there, should every framework mention this type of stuff in
> their docs? It seems like a duplication of effort.
>
> (summary of what I said in IRC)
>
> On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:41:43 PM UTC-4, Daniele Procida wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Florian Apolloner  wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:18:05 PM UTC+2, Daniele Procida wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement
>> about
>> >> the appropriateness of the last section, <
>> >> https://github.com/django/**django/pull/1463/files#L5R318>
>> so it would be
>> >> particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Personally I'd remove it completely for the following reasons:
>> > * Especially newcomers tend to think that they need the most performant
>> >system
>> )
>> > * This dual-import of libraries where you try to select the most
>> >"efficient" versions quite often results in issues for those versions
>> which
>> >didn't get used by the developer
>>
>> I've re-written that section now to emphasise the caveats and the need to
>> verify improvements, and to de-emphasise the prospect of exciting
>> perfromance gains.
>>
>> Daniele
>>
>>  --
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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Tim Graham]

I feel like we open a can of worms if we go down this road. Where do we 
draw the line between what we do and don't mention regarding *Python* 
optimization? The Django docs don't need to layout the current state of the 
Python ecosystem IMO. I don't doubt the info is helpful, but I don't think 
Django's docs is the right place for it. There are many Python web 
frameworks out there, should every framework mention this type of stuff in 
their docs? It seems like a duplication of effort.

(summary of what I said in IRC)

On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:41:43 PM UTC-4, Daniele Procida wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Florian Apolloner  
> wrote: 
>
> >On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:18:05 PM UTC+2, Daniele Procida wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about 
> >> the appropriateness of the last section, < 
> >> https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463/files#L5R318> so it would 
> be 
> >> particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that. 
> >> 
> > 
> >Personally I'd remove it completely for the following reasons: 
> > * Especially newcomers tend to think that they need the most performant 
> >system 
> ) 
> > * This dual-import of libraries where you try to select the most 
> >"efficient" versions quite often results in issues for those versions 
> which 
> >didn't get used by the developer 
>
> I've re-written that section now to emphasise the caveats and the need to 
> verify improvements, and to de-emphasise the prospect of exciting 
> perfromance gains. 
>
> Daniele 
>
>

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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Florian Apolloner  wrote:

>On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:18:05 PM UTC+2, Daniele Procida wrote:
>>
>> Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about 
>> the appropriateness of the last section, <
>> https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463/files#L5R318> so it would be 
>> particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that. 
>>
>
>Personally I'd remove it completely for the following reasons:
> * Especially newcomers tend to think that they need the most performant 
>system
)
> * This dual-import of libraries where you try to select the most 
>"efficient" versions quite often results in issues for those versions which 
>didn't get used by the developer

I've re-written that section now to emphasise the caveats and the need to 
verify improvements, and to de-emphasise the prospect of exciting perfromance 
gains.

Daniele

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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Florian Apolloner]

Hi Daniele,

On Friday, September 13, 2013 4:18:05 PM UTC+2, Daniele Procida wrote:
>
> Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about 
> the appropriateness of the last section, <
> https://github.com/django/django/pull/1463/files#L5R318> so it would be 
> particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that. 
>

Personally I'd remove it completely for the following reasons:
 * Especially newcomers tend to think that they need the most performant 
system and will probably try to switch out whatever they can, even if not 
necessary; and switching to PyPy might not be a good idea in most of those 
cases ;)
 * This dual-import of libraries where you try to select the most 
"efficient" versions quite often results in issues for those versions which 
didn't get used by the developer. As an example simplejson and json are not 
100% compatible and I think had issues with the c-variant of Elementtree 
too. Especially when it comes to unicode/str handling the c-variants tend 
to have some ugly edge cases (at least in my experience -- this is not a 
problem though, but you have to test all variants…). Imo it's most of the 
times easier to just develop against one, if you need the speed and 
verified that the c-variant actually offers an improvement use that and 
__require__ it.

Florian

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Re: Performance optimisation documents, ticket 20877

[Daniele Procida]

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013, Daniele Procida  wrote:

>
>
>Work in progress; comments appreciated: 
>

Any further comments would be welcomed. There's some disagreement about the 
appropriateness of the last section, 
 so it would be 
particularly usefukl to have some further opinion on that.

Daniele

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