Re: Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

[Bogdan Barna]

Agree with Mariusz and Adam. The 2 modules are not the same. At most, we 
can say `django.utils.timezone` has an unfortunate naming.

Just my 2c.

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 5:44:38 PM UTC+2 Adam Johnson wrote:

> I agree with Mariusz. Encouraging alternative import paths for standard 
> library functions can only lead to confusing code.
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM Mariusz Felisiak  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I find it confusing that we have to import now from django.utils.timezone, 
>> but timedelta from Python's internal datetime.
>> This btw. is a violation of the Law of Demeter 
>> , hence I agree with 
>> Suayip's proposal.
>>
>> – Jacob
>>
>>
>> There is a big difference between `now()` and `timedelta`, 
>> `django.utils.timezone.now` is defined in Django it is not the same as `
>> datetime.now`. Unlike, `timedelta` would be always Python's `datetime.
>> timedelta`. Following this proposition, we should reintroduce most of 
>> the standard Python libraries in the django.utils modules 🤯 TBH, we're 
>> trying to do the exact opposite and remove all aliases, e.g. 
>> https://github.com/django/django/commit/d6816bff73b37af05c968c009419c7c608e37307
>>
>> I remember a discussion where a user tried to convince me that `
>> django.utils.timezone.datetime` is not the same as `datetime.datetime` 
>> and that Django is definitely adding some magic here and I have to use 
>> `datetime` from Django. This is of course not true.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mariusz
>>
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>> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

['Adam Johnson' via Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)]

I agree with Mariusz. Encouraging alternative import paths for standard
library functions can only lead to confusing code.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM Mariusz Felisiak <
felisiak.mari...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I find it confusing that we have to import now from django.utils.timezone,
> but timedelta from Python's internal datetime.
> This btw. is a violation of the Law of Demeter
> , hence I agree with
> Suayip's proposal.
>
> – Jacob
>
>
> There is a big difference between `now()` and `timedelta`,
> `django.utils.timezone.now` is defined in Django it is not the same as `
> datetime.now`. Unlike, `timedelta` would be always Python's `datetime.
> timedelta`. Following this proposition, we should reintroduce most of the
> standard Python libraries in the django.utils modules 🤯 TBH, we're
> trying to do the exact opposite and remove all aliases, e.g.
> https://github.com/django/django/commit/d6816bff73b37af05c968c009419c7c608e37307
>
> I remember a discussion where a user tried to convince me that `
> django.utils.timezone.datetime` is not the same as `datetime.datetime`
> and that Django is definitely adding some magic here and I have to use
> `datetime` from Django. This is of course not true.
>
> Best,
> Mariusz
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/40cce83a-4967-4a6c-9ae2-7e15386814dcn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

[Mariusz Felisiak]

I find it confusing that we have to import now from django.utils.timezone, 
but timedelta from Python's internal datetime.
This btw. is a violation of the Law of Demeter 
, hence I agree with Suayip's 
proposal.

– Jacob


There is a big difference between `now()` and `timedelta`, 
`django.utils.timezone.now` is defined in Django it is not the same as `
datetime.now`. Unlike, `timedelta` would be always Python's `datetime.
timedelta`. Following this proposition, we should reintroduce most of the 
standard Python libraries in the django.utils modules 🤯 TBH, we're trying 
to do the exact opposite and remove all aliases, e.g. 
https://github.com/django/django/commit/d6816bff73b37af05c968c009419c7c608e37307

I remember a discussion where a user tried to convince me that `
django.utils.timezone.datetime` is not the same as `datetime.datetime` and 
that Django is definitely adding some magic here and I have to use 
`datetime` from Django. This is of course not true.

Best,
Mariusz

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Re: Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

[Jacob Rief]

I find it confusing that we have to import now from django.utils.timezone, 
but timedelta from Python's internal datetime.
This btw. is a violation of the Law of Demeter 
, hence I agree with Suayip's 
proposal.

– Jacob

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:09:02 AM UTC+1 Mariusz Felisiak wrote:

I'm strongly against it. Things should be imported from source modules, not 
cross-imported from Django modules just because we use them. This is 
confusing to the users who might have the impression that 
`django.utils.timezone.timedelta` is more than `datetime.timedelta`, which 
is not True.

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Re: Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

[Mariusz Felisiak]

Hi,

> I would say we should at least consider exporting `timedelta` What do you 
think?

I'm strongly against it. Things should be imported from source modules, not 
cross-imported from Django modules just because we use them. This is 
confusing to the users who might have the impression that 
`django.utils.timezone.timedelta` is more than `datetime.timedelta`, which 
is not True.

Best,
Mariusz

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Exporting some of the `datetime` functions from `django.utils.timezone`

[suayip uzulmez]

Most of the time I use `timezone.now` in conjunction with 
`timezone.timedelta`, however, today I realized it was not publicly 
exported in the module.

Most of the time,  using it saves an import from `datetime` (e.g., 
timezone.now + timezone.timedelta is a common pattern). I presume this use 
case is a common one among Django developers. I made a quick Stack Overflow 
search, which yielded 100+ results:

https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=timezone.timedelta+%5Bdjango%5D

Then I thought, why stop there? Usage of `timezone.datetime` would possibly 
reduce the `datetime` imports to zero in some Django projects. However it 
is not used as much, as you can imagine:

https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=timezone.datetime+%5Bdjango%5D

I would say we should at least consider exporting `timedelta` What do you 
think?


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