Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Anders Steinlein 
Just want to throw in one point to consider here, pardon me if this has
already been discussed in the core team.

Bumping the "major version", that is moving to 2.0 instead of 1.10, will
from the outside likely be seen as a larger change, regardless of whether
it technically is or not. This, could again give some PR boost -- if one is
willing to seize the opportunities so to speak.

Just to pick one example, this is how PostgreSQL generally decides to
handle bumps in major versions. 9.0 could've technically be 8.5 (it is no
more backwards-incomatible than 8.3->8.4), but they decided to bump the
major version to reap additional PR due to the large features introduced.
In the same vein, I would've liked Django 1.7 with its major and awesome
additions to have been 2.0, but I guess that opportunety has passed long
ago. :)

Regards,
Anders

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Florian Apolloner 
wrote:

> On Monday, July 14, 2014 9:50:53 PM UTC+2, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> +1, please leave it there
>
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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Florian Apolloner 
On Monday, July 14, 2014 9:50:53 PM UTC+2, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
> [snip]

+1, please leave it there

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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Aymeric Augustin 
Hello,

Version numbers are symbolic values with no inherent meaning. As a consequence, 
anyone may choose to follow any convention. You're welcome to find 1.9 --> 2.0 
ridiculous just as much as I'm welcome (or at least, I hope so) to find 1.9 --> 
1.10 laughable ;-) Seriously, in the grand scheme of things, this doesn't 
matter much.

Since we have a mechanism for backwards-incompatible changes, namely the 
two-release deprecation process, we believe that we'll never have to pull a 
Python 3. In fact, we'd rather not, considering how it went. So, in order not 
to stay stuck at 1.xx forever, we -- the core team -- decided that the version 
after 1.9 would be 2.0.

When I say "we decided", I mean that we had this discussion at a few 
DjangoCons, that most core devs found that option acceptable, and that it 
became tribal knowledge. No one took issue with the introduction of 
RemovedInDjango20Warning as the successor to RemovedInDjango19Warning.

Discussions about versioning schemes are about as religious as those about text 
editors, so, please, let's leave it there. If one or several core devs -- I see 
that Shai supports 1.10 -- want to resume this holy war, let's handle it at the 
scale of the core team, not at the scale of django-developers.

We'll be fine anyway.

Thank you!

-- 
Aymeric.

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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Donald Stufft 
Semver doesn’t require that a MAJOR increment be earth shattering, just that 
it’s used
to mark backwards incompat changes. Realstically dropping the 1. would make 
sense
for Django + Semver since every 1.x version is potentially backwards incompat 
since it
tends to remove something that was deprecated.

On Jul 14, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Collin Anderson  wrote:

> > MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes,MINOR version when you 
> > add functionality in a backwards-compatible manner
> 
> Although our changes are backwards compatible, they are only guaranteed to be 
> backwards compatible for the previous two versions. Instead, semver says that 
> code written for django 1.1 should run just fine on django 1.6.
> 
> > if it isn't earth-shattering, should be 1.10. Reasons to break things will 
> > pop up in due time (e.g. the death of python 2 in 2019). 
> 
> I'm also ok with django 1.10, though I also like incrementing the major 
> version regularly as a way of saying "we don't plan on making 
> earth-shattering changes". In retrospect, I think it would have been better 
> if python made the backwards-incompatible changes slowly, with warnings, over 
> the course of several releases instead of all at once. If we do ever make 
> earth-shattering changes, I think it would be smart to use a whole new module 
> and package name such as django2. That way you can easily have both installed 
> at the same time.
> 
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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Collin Anderson 
> MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes,MINOR version when 
you add functionality in a backwards-compatible manner

Although our changes are backwards compatible, they are only guaranteed to 
be backwards compatible for the previous two versions. Instead, semver says 
that code written for django 1.1 should run just fine on django 1.6.

> if it isn't earth-shattering, should be 1.10. Reasons to break things 
will pop up in due time (e.g. the death of python 2 in 2019). 

I'm also ok with django 1.10, though I also like incrementing the major 
version regularly as a way of saying "we don't plan on making 
earth-shattering changes". In retrospect, I think it would have been better 
if python made the backwards-incompatible changes slowly, with warnings, 
over the course of several releases instead of all at once. If we do ever 
make earth-shattering changes, I think it would be smart to use a whole new 
module and package name such as django2. That way you can easily have both 
installed at the same time.

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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Shai Berger 
On Monday 14 July 2014 20:07:16 Collin Anderson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I just saw #23015 come through (1.9 -> 2.0 not an earth-shattering
> release). I think it's a little ridiculous that decimal point doesn't
> really mean anything.
> 
> I'm wondering if it would make sense, after 2.0, to follow Chrome, Firefox,
> and semantic versioning (http://semver.org/), and simply go with 3.0, 4.0,
> etc. in the future. The Patch/Micro versions would be 2.0.2, 3.0.1, etc.
> There would never be a 2.1.0 unless we somehow had nothing to remove on the
> deprecation timeline, which has never happened before.
> 
FWIW, I always thought the version after 1.9, if it isn't earth-shattering, 
should be 1.10. Reasons to break things will pop up in due time (e.g. the 
death of python 2 in 2019).

Shai.

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Re: use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Greg Chapple 
I'm not overly familiar with how Django versions are decided, but from what
I know about semver, the example you give is not quite correct.

>From the semver website:

Given a version number MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH, increment the:

MAJOR version when you make incompatible API changes,MINOR version when you
add functionality in a backwards-compatible manner, and PATCH version when
you make backwards-compatible bug fixes.

Additional labels for pre-release and build metadata are available as
extensions to the MAJOR.MINOR.PATCH format.

---

If this was to be followed then we would not be left with the extra zero as
you mention, which to me seems just a bit redundant.

I'm all for using semver, though! So +1 on the suggestion.

Greg
 On 14 Jul 2014 18:07, "Collin Anderson"  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I just saw #23015 come through (1.9 -> 2.0 not an earth-shattering
> release). I think it's a little ridiculous that decimal point doesn't
> really mean anything.
>
> I'm wondering if it would make sense, after 2.0, to follow Chrome,
> Firefox, and semantic versioning (http://semver.org/), and simply go with
> 3.0, 4.0, etc. in the future. The Patch/Micro versions would be 2.0.2,
> 3.0.1, etc. There would never be a 2.1.0 unless we somehow had nothing to
> remove on the deprecation timeline, which has never happened before.
>
> It means we would always have an extra zero in the version instead of a
> meaningless decimal point, but it makes more sense to me at least.
>
> Or am I just crazy?
>
> Thanks,
> Collin
>
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use semantic versioning after 2.0?

2014-07-14 Thread Collin Anderson 
Hi All,

I just saw #23015 come through (1.9 -> 2.0 not an earth-shattering 
release). I think it's a little ridiculous that decimal point doesn't 
really mean anything.

I'm wondering if it would make sense, after 2.0, to follow Chrome, Firefox, 
and semantic versioning (http://semver.org/), and simply go with 3.0, 4.0, 
etc. in the future. The Patch/Micro versions would be 2.0.2, 3.0.1, etc. 
There would never be a 2.1.0 unless we somehow had nothing to remove on the 
deprecation timeline, which has never happened before.

It means we would always have an extra zero in the version instead of a 
meaningless decimal point, but it makes more sense to me at least.

Or am I just crazy?

Thanks,
Collin

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