Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
--+
 Reporter:  NicoEchaniz   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  Cleanup/optimization  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Documentation |  Version:  1.2
 Severity:  Normal|   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  settings django.conf  | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0 |  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0 |  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0 |UI/UX:  0
--+
Changes (by Carlton Gibson):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


Comment:

 So 10 years later, I'm going to close this as wontfix.
 [https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/3.1/topics/settings/#altering-settings-
 at-runtime The docs are clear that this isn't supported]:

 > You shouldn’t alter settings in your applications at runtime.

 Maybe it's possible, for some settings, but short of a patch actually
 showing how we can document this safely and simply, this isn't a foot-gun
 we should be in the market of enabling.

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+-
   Reporter: |  Owner:  nobody
  NicoEchaniz| Status:  new
   Type: |  Component:  Documentation
  Cleanup/optimization   |   Severity:  Normal
  Milestone: |   Keywords:  settings
Version:  1.2|  django.conf
 Resolution: |  Has patch:  0
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   |Needs tests:  0
Needs documentation:  0  |  Easy pickings:  0
Patch needs improvement:  0  |
  UI/UX:  0  |
-+-
Changes (by tomchristie):

 * cc: tom@… (added)


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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+-
   Reporter: |  Owner:  nobody
  NicoEchaniz| Status:  new
   Type: |  Component:  Documentation
  Cleanup/optimization   |   Severity:  Normal
  Milestone: |   Keywords:  settings
Version:  1.2|  django.conf
 Resolution: |  Has patch:  0
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   |Needs tests:  0
Needs documentation:  0  |  Easy pickings:  0
Patch needs improvement:  0  |
  UI/UX:  0  |
-+-
Changes (by Danny W. Adair ):

 * cc: danny.adair@… (added)
 * ui_ux:   => 0
 * easy:   => 0


Comment:

 I think that once it's documented which settings can be changed at
 runtime, it would be nice to directly support such runtime changes, maybe
 even in conjunction with the sites framework (speaking of "optional").

 Having one central place for settings is great, and it would be good if
 runtime changes would not necessitate using another app and therefore
 different import - see also my question on SO
 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6528723/changing-django-settings-at-
 runtime

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+-
   Reporter: |Owner:  nobody
  NicoEchaniz|   Status:  new
   Type: |Component:  Documentation
  Uncategorized  | Severity:  Normal
  Milestone: | Keywords:  settings django.conf
Version:  1.2|Has patch:  0
 Resolution: |  Needs tests:  0
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   |
Needs documentation:  0  |
Patch needs improvement:  0  |
-+-
Changes (by andybak):

 * cc: andybak (added)
 * type:   => Uncategorized
 * severity:   => Normal


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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+--
   Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
 Status:  new| Milestone:  
  Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
 Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   | Has patch:  0   
Needs documentation:  0  |   Needs tests:  0   
Patch needs improvement:  0  |  
-+--

Comment (by NicoEchaniz):

 Ramiro, that portion of the documentation is exactly what jacob was
 refering to during the chat session that spawned this ticket and it would
 need some modification if this ticket were to be solved.
 It should clearly keep the general warning tone, that's what I meant with
 my previous comment where I just tried to clarify the fact that adding
 this information to the documentation does not necessarily mean
 encouraging people to change settings at runtime.

 The mentioned paragraph, instead of saying:
 "You shouldn't alter settings in your applications at runtime.

 Could read:
 "You shouldn't alter settings in your applications at runtime unless you
 know exactly what you are doing and know how to handle the related issues
 (eg. threading problems)."

 And then refer to the distinction between the different types of setting
 that jacob describes in
 [http://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/14628#comment:1 comment:1].

 This would be clear enough for everyone and useful for those with the
 particular needs this ticket initends to address.

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+--
   Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
 Status:  new| Milestone:  
  Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
 Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   | Has patch:  0   
Needs documentation:  0  |   Needs tests:  0   
Patch needs improvement:  0  |  
-+--

Comment (by ramiro):

 Replying to [comment:5 NicoEchaniz]:
 > Documentation should state very clearly that runtime-modification of
 settings is something you should avoid unless you fully understand the
 consecuences.
 > If there were consensus on the proper way to handle the threading issue,
 I think it should be documented too, but an enfatic warning would suffice
 for the time being to discourage people from fiddling with this lightly.

 Nico, I agree with the general intent of this ticket. But just wanted to
 point that what you ask for in this particular paragraph is already
 present in the documentation:
 http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.0/topics/settings/#altering-settings-
 at-runtime

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+--
   Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
 Status:  new| Milestone:  
  Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
 Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   | Has patch:  0   
Needs documentation:  0  |   Needs tests:  0   
Patch needs improvement:  0  |  
-+--

Comment (by NicoEchaniz):

 I do not agree with your assessment on this matter. Documenting this
 information would be very useful for anyone working on multi-tenancy for
 django projects. There are in fact certain scenarios where multi-tenancy
 is a valid - if not the only - deployment option.

 For reference, I'll add a link to the
 [http://www.revsys.com/officehours/2010/nov/05/#question5 full log of the
 chat session] that inspired the creation of this ticket.

 Documentation should state very clearly that runtime-modification of
 settings is something you should avoid unless you fully understand the
 consecuences.
 If there were consensus on the proper way to handle the threading issue, I
 think it should be documented too, but an enfatic warning would suffice
 for the time being to discourage people from fiddling with this lightly.

 I'd also like to add that this is just a documentation proposal on current
 existing features and as such I don't see how this could be of any harm
 unless it's done carelessly, which I find hard to expect knowing the
 general quality of django documentation.

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
-+--
   Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
 Status:  new| Milestone:  
  Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
 Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
   Triage Stage:  Accepted   | Has patch:  0   
Needs documentation:  0  |   Needs tests:  0   
Patch needs improvement:  0  |  
-+--

Comment (by carljm):

 If we document any settings as "safe to change at runtime", we'd better
 also document that changing settings at runtime (even the otherwise "safe"
 ones) is not safe in a multi-threaded hosting environment (or concurrent
 requests can easily get the wrong setting value).

 Given the number of people hosting in such an environment who may not even
 realize it, I'm not sure we should be documenting anything that encourages
 changing settings at runtime, until we (pie in the sky) fix settings so
 they aren't a global.

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
+---
  Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
Status:  new| Milestone:  
 Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
 Stage:  Accepted   | Has_patch:  0   
Needs_docs:  0  |   Needs_tests:  0   
Needs_better_patch:  0  |  
+---
Changes (by NicoEchaniz):

 * cc: n...@rakar.com (added)

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
+---
  Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
Status:  new| Milestone:  
 Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
 Stage:  Accepted   | Has_patch:  0   
Needs_docs:  0  |   Needs_tests:  0   
Needs_better_patch:  0  |  
+---
Changes (by gabrielhurley):

  * stage:  Unreviewed => Accepted

Comment:

 Does this belong in its own document, or should it be worked into the
 existing settings reference?

 My inclination would be to make it part of the settings reference (with
 perhaps a brief explanation in the `docs/topics/settings`) but I feel like
 the settings reference as a whole is starting to get cluttered and could
 perhaps use some nicer formatting. I played around with it a bit this
 evening, but haven't come up with something perfect yet.

 It's also worth noting that this is loosely related to
 [http://groups.google.com/group/django-
 developers/browse_frm/thread/65aabb45687e572e this thread on Django
 Developers] regarding the right way to modify settings during testing
 (essentially at runtime).

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Re: [Django] #14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime

[Django]

#14628: Document which settings can be changed at runtime
+---
  Reporter:  NicoEchaniz| Owner:  nobody  
Status:  new| Milestone:  
 Component:  Documentation  |   Version:  1.2 
Resolution: |  Keywords:  settings django.conf
 Stage:  Unreviewed | Has_patch:  0   
Needs_docs:  0  |   Needs_tests:  0   
Needs_better_patch:  0  |  
+---
Changes (by jacob):

  * needs_better_patch:  => 0
  * summary:  missing documentation about which settings can be safely
  changed at runtime => Document which settings
  can be changed at runtime
  * needs_tests:  => 0
  * needs_docs:  => 0

Comment:

 I'd like to put together a document that breaks settings down into three
 categories:

   * Things you can change at run-time (e.g. a middleware) without breaking
 anything.
   * Things you can change at run-time as long as you're careful and
 trigger re-loading, clear a cache, or dance through some other hoop. It's
 OK if this requires reading the source.
   * Things you should absolutely never change at runtime.

 This might also involve code fixes to ensure that settings can actually
 fit into these categories.

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