Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  aisipos
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  1
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by Tim Graham ):

 * status:  assigned => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


Comment:

 In [changeset:"c3495bb984a6f639e828e568fd333e36b46f270f" c3495bb9]:
 {{{
 #!CommitTicketReference repository=""
 revision="c3495bb984a6f639e828e568fd333e36b46f270f"
 Fixed #12666 -- Added EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME setting.

 When EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME=True, send emails with a Date header
 in the local time zone.
 }}}

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  aisipos
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  1|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  1
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by timgraham):

 * needs_better_patch:  0 => 1
 * has_patch:  0 => 1


Comment:

 [https://github.com/django/django/pull/6703 PR] with comments for
 improvement.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  aisipos
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+

Comment (by carljm):

 I'm not convinced of the value of the refactoring proposed in
 https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/12666#comment:9 -- if someone really
 wants some strange handling for the Date header, they can just set the
 header themselves, which is likely easier than subclassing `Email` for
 this purpose. Exposing the stdlib's `localtime` boolean flag is a simple
 change which would be friendlier to those who want a local timezone in
 their email headers, especially if it actually does respect the currently
 active Django timezone (e.g. `TIME_ZONE` setting). (It's not clear to me
 from the above whether it does or not; that deserves clarification.)

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  aisipos
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by aisipos):

 * status:  new => assigned
 * owner:  nobody => aisipos


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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  1|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by carljm):

 * easy:  0 => 1


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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by mitar):

 * cc: mmitar@… (added)


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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+
 Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  reopened
Component:  Core (Mail)  |  Version:  1.1
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+
Changes (by Andrey Mitroshin ):

 * ui_ux:   => 0
 * easy:   => 0


Comment:

 In django/core/mail/message.py (Django 1.3.1)
 msg['Date'] = formatdate()

 There is no localtime=True and emails are sending using UTC
 When I correct django/core/mail/message.py to
 msg['Date'] = formatdate(localtime=True)

 Then emails are being sent with correct Date header (using local time with
 timezone)

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+---
   Reporter:  net147   |Owner:  nobody
   Type:  New feature  |   Status:  reopened
  Milestone:   |Component:  Core (Mail)
Version:  1.1  | Severity:  Normal
 Resolution:   | Keywords:
   Triage Stage:  Accepted |Has patch:  0
Needs documentation:  0|  Needs tests:  0
Patch needs improvement:  0|
---+---
Changes (by mattmcc):

 * type:   => New feature
 * severity:   => Normal


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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened  | Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:|  Keywords:
 Stage:  Accepted  | Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by mtredinnick):

  * stage:  Design decision needed => Accepted

Comment:

 Russ and I talked about this. It sounds like broken clients. To make
 things easier for people to change in the cases where a lot of their users
 have said clients, we'll make formatdate() a method on the Email class
 that, by default, calls the email utils' formatdate(). Then people can
 subclass the Email class (or just supply the date header, which you can
 already do) and put whatever they like there. Current behaviour is
 technically correct however and remains the default.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+--
  Reporter:  net147  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail|   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Design decision needed  | Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0   |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0   |  
-+--
Comment (by lukeplant):

 Replying to [comment:7 geofft]:

 > Isn't this what TIME_ZONE in settings.py is for? [[BR]][[BR]]
 >
 >
 > In [3]: settings.TIME_ZONE [[BR]]
 > Out[3]: 'Europe/London' [[BR]]
 > [[BR]]
 > In [4]: formatdate(localtime=True) [[BR]]
 > Out[4]: 'Fri, 14 May 2010 18:33:35 +0100' [[BR]]


 That's a very good point.  But now I've got to go and work out why I am
 not seeing that behaviour in the e-mails I receive, even though I have
 settings.TIME_ZONE = 'Europe/London' :-(

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+--
  Reporter:  net147  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail|   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Design decision needed  | Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0   |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0   |  
-+--
Comment (by geofft):

 Replying to [comment:5 lukeplant]:
 > I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do.  I have sites that are
 'British' (i.e. serve almost entirely a British audience who live in GMT
 time), but the server happens to be in the States.  It would just as
 'misleading' to have e-mails that come from a non-British time zone
 (whereas UTC is kind of 'neutral').

 Isn't this what TIME_ZONE in settings.py is for?

 {{{
 In [3]: settings.TIME_ZONE
 Out[3]: 'America/Chicago'

 In [4]: formatdate(localtime=True)
 Out[4]: 'Fri, 14 May 2010 12:33:04 -0500'
 }}}
 {{{
 In [3]: settings.TIME_ZONE
 Out[3]: 'Europe/London'

 In [4]: formatdate(localtime=True)
 Out[4]: 'Fri, 14 May 2010 18:33:35 +0100'
 }}}

 Replying to [comment:6 kmtracey]:
 > Which sounds to me like the standard explicitly allows for specifying
 dates/times using only an absolute value, with no indication of what local
 time may be. This "-" spec is what Django is currently sending, and
 thus per the standard I think what it is doing is technically correct.

 Oh, good call, and sorry for not double-checking the RFC. That said, I
 still think it would be more useful to send "information about the local
 time zone" than not to, especially given that there is a TIME_ZONE
 variable. (The part that confused me here the most was that TIME_ZONE was
 set but not used.)

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
-+--
  Reporter:  net147  | Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail|   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Design decision needed  | Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0   |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0   |  
-+--
Changes (by kmtracey):

  * stage:  Unreviewed => Design decision needed

Comment:

 Replying to [comment:4 geofft]:
 > The e-mail Date header is defined to include both a time and a timezone
 offset indicating the local time of the sender.

 Note when making statements like this, it is helpful to include a
 reference to whatever source you are considering responsible for defining
 such things. In this case I'd guess the relevant standard is
 [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2822.html RFC 2822]. It states in section 3.3
 that: "The date and time-of-day SHOULD express local time." This same
 section also sates:
 {{{
Though "-" also indicates Universal Time, it is
used to indicate that the time was generated on a system that may be
in a local time zone other than Universal Time and therefore
indicates that the date-time contains no information about the local
time zone.
 }}}

 Which sounds to me like the standard explicitly allows for specifying
 dates/times using only an absolute value, with no indication of what local
 time may be. This "-" spec is what Django is currently sending, and
 thus per the standard I think what it is doing is technically correct.
 Programs which are inferring anything about the local time of the sender
 when "-" has been specified are the ones that are, technically, doing
 something wrong. (Gmail's labs "Sender Time Zone" extension falls into
 this category.)

 I am not sure what the right answer is, but I'm leaning towards thinking
 Django ought to be specifying `localtime=True` here. Though Luke has a
 good point about the server's time zone not necessarily having any
 relevance, for some servers the local time may in fact be relevant, and it
 is a bit annoying that it is not reflected in the date headers included in
 mail.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened  | Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:|  Keywords:
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Comment (by lukeplant):

 I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do.  I have sites that are
 'British' (i.e. serve almost entirely a British audience who live in GMT
 time), but the server happens to be in the States.  It would just as
 'misleading' to have e-mails that come from a non-British time zone
 (whereas UTC is kind of 'neutral').

 Strictly speaking, I guess the time zone ought to be the time zone of the
 'sender'.  But who is the sender?  If it's a contact form, the sender is
 the person who enters the message - we have no idea what his/her time zone
 is.  In the case of an automated message sent by the webserver, it's
 debatable whether the machine 'lives in' the time zone the machine happens
 to be located in.  It's also probably not desirable for the behaviour of a
 web site to change if I happen to move it to a different server.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  reopened  | Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:|  Keywords:
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by geofft):

  * status:  closed => reopened
  * resolution:  wontfix =>

Comment:

 ramiro: thanks, I searched but couldn't find a prior ticket.

 Replying to [comment:1 russellm]:
 > Marking wontfix because I'm not aware of any particular advantage. If
 you can provide any evidence that it's the right/best practice thing to
 do, this shouldn't be configurable - it should be turned on by default.

 The e-mail Date header is defined to include both a time and a timezone
 offset indicating the local time of the sender. As it is, we're
 effectively only sending one of those two and making the second one
 useless at best, and possibly actively misleading. This is why I attached
 a patch to change it unconditionally and not make it configurable.

 Practically speaking, my e-mail client (alpine) displays times in the
 timezone of the Date header without converting them to local time. I'm
 generally used to this behavior, so it confused me to see an e-mail from a
 Django server in the same city (and building) as me send with a time
 several hours ahead, causing it to display in the index view as
 "Tomorrow", since it was past midnight UTC.

 Personally, I'm also inclined to believe that Python's standard libraries
 default to localtime=False because they're generally just bad at handling
 time zones and try to pretend that they don't exist. I'm not sure I see
 arguments for why formatdate should be defaulting to localtime=False, and
 I really don't see arguments for why Django wants that setting past that
 it's the default.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  closed| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  wontfix   |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Comment (by ramiro):

 #13535 proposed the same (without a setting) and contained a patch.

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  closed| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  wontfix   |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Old description:

> I would like to be able to send emails using local time in the Date
> header instead of UTC by default.
>
> Changes needed (based on Django 1.1.1):
>  * django/conf/global_settings.py:
>* Add "EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME = False" (won't sent using local time by
> default unless you explicitly enable it)
>  * django/core/mail.py:
>* Change "msg['Date'] = formatdate()" to "msg['Date'] =
> formatdate(localtime=settings.EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME)"

New description:

 I would like to be able to send emails using local time in the Date header
 instead of UTC by default.

 Changes needed (based on Django 1.1.1):
  * `django/conf/global_settings.py`:
* Add `"EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME = False"` (won't sent using local time by
 default unless you explicitly enable it)
  * `django/core/mail.py`:
* Change `"msg['Date'] = formatdate()"` to `"msg['Date'] =
 formatdate(localtime=settings.EMAIL_USE_LOCALTIME)"`

Comment (by ramiro):

 (re-formatted description)

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Re: [Django] #12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC

[Django]

#12666: Setting for sending email using localtime instead of UTC
---+
  Reporter:  net147| Owner:  nobody
Status:  closed| Milestone:
 Component:  django.core.mail  |   Version:  1.1   
Resolution:  wontfix   |  Keywords:
 Stage:  Unreviewed| Has_patch:  0 
Needs_docs:  0 |   Needs_tests:  0 
Needs_better_patch:  0 |  
---+
Changes (by russellm):

  * status:  new => closed
  * needs_better_patch:  => 0
  * resolution:  => wontfix
  * needs_tests:  => 0
  * needs_docs:  => 0

Comment:

 Is there a particularly compelling reason to send mail with headers in
 local time, rather than against UTC?

 Marking wontfix because I'm not aware of any particular advantage. If you
 can provide any evidence that it's the right/best practice thing to do,
 this shouldn't be configurable - it should be turned on by default.

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