Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by aaugustin):

 * status:  assigned => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


Comment:

 Re-closing wontfix because I didn't have a better idea. Sorry.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by aaugustin):

 I looked at the ORM layer and there's a dozen places where it's going to
 be very hard to inject the `USE_TZ` setting. See attached patch.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by aaugustin):

 The main problem in practice is... the global `USE_TZ` setting :( How
 surprising.

 For instance, when using PostgreSQL, `DateTimeField`s return aware
 datetimes because database cursors are configured to add time zone
 information to all datetimes:

 {{{
 def create_cursor(self):
 cursor = self.connection.cursor()
 cursor.tzinfo_factory = utc_tzinfo_factory if settings.USE_TZ else
 None
 return cursor
 }}}

 

 Of course, there's a good reasons for making `USE_TZ` global: the
 template, form and model layers must agree on the mode (naive or aware) in
 which Django is running.

 But it could be useful to provide a way to work with naive datetimes in
 the database and form layers. The template layer already provides a
 sufficient API.

 That would require:
 - a way to override `TIME_ZONE` and `USE_TZ` on a per-database basis.
 Currently it's already possible, although undocumented, to override
 `TIME_ZONE`.
 - a way to override `USE_TZ` in model and form`DateField` and
 `DateTimeField` on a per-field basis.

 This would be documented as an advanced use case and it would be up to
 each project that takes advantage of this to ensure that the right models
 are used on the right databases. In practice, the main use case is to
 access third-party databases that store date times in an way that's
 incompatible with the main project settings.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:  Accepted
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by timo):

 * stage:  Unreviewed => Accepted


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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by aaugustin):

 Well, the requirements are pretty clear to me: one must be able to disable
 selectively the time zone code in model and form DateTimeFields.

 I've encountered this problem myself with the model layer: I had to
 interact with a third party database whose schema I couldn't control, and
 the data was in local time. Your use case is also interesting: ironically,
 time zone support makes it slightly more difficult!

 Since I implemented time zone support in Django, I feel qualified to make
 a decision -- not because this is my territory or anything, just because I
 know how I designed it.

 If I think it can work, I'll upload a patch for review.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by brycegroff):

 Sure, if you would like to have more discussion out of band, I think you
 should be able to see my email. Is this something that warrants a mailing
 list discussion?

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  aaugustin
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  assigned
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by aaugustin):

 * status:  new => assigned
 * owner:  nobody => aaugustin


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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by aaugustin):

 * status:  closed => new
 * resolution:  wontfix =>


Comment:

 I'd like to have a second look at this idea, but don't get your hopes too
 high, I could confirm the wontfix once I've had more time to think about
 it.

 Roughly, I'm thinking of adding a `naive` keyword argument to the form and
 model DateTimeField (I need it on the form field too at least for the
 admin). This is going to have far reaching, and probably messy,
 consequences.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by brycegroff):

 If one should need a datetime form field to not be run through the Django
 timezone features, this form field can help: http://pastebin.com/j4TnnHTS

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  closed
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by timo):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


Comment:

 Feel free to post your solution or a pointer to it here.

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by brycegroff):

 Sure, the situation I came across was this:

 I have a model that has a timezone field and a datetime. The datetime
 should be calculated based on the timezone in the model. Ever other
 datetime in the project is fine to use the timezone in the settings. To
 not use the settings timezone however required subclassing the
 DateTimeField in forms. This is fine, however it does add a lot of extra
 code, and now I have to keep track of my own version of DateTimeField
 (which I doubt will be a big deal).

 If the complexity is not worth it, I understand. I think there may be
 other people that could use this feature, but I will not push it farther
 than this. I think posting a solution to this problem here may be a good
 alternative, as I could not find an answer with google. I do not want to
 spam trac though, so let me know if this is a good place or not.

 Thanks,
 Bryce

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-

Comment (by timo):

 I'm not sure the additional complexity of this is worth it. Do you think
 your use case is common enough that others will benefit from this (perhaps
 you could describe it a little more)?

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Re: [Django] #21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime

[Django]

#21300: Allow DateTimeField to return a naive datetime
-+-
 Reporter:  brycegroff   |Owner:  nobody
 Type:  New feature  |   Status:  new
Component:  Forms|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  forms DateTimeField  | Triage Stage:
Has patch:  0|  Unreviewed
  Needs tests:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
Easy pickings:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
 |UI/UX:  0
-+-
Changes (by brycegroff):

 * cc: brycegroff@… (added)
 * needs_better_patch:   => 0
 * needs_tests:   => 0
 * needs_docs:   => 0


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