Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  dev
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-
Changes (by Ülgen Sarıkavak):

 * cc: Ülgen Sarıkavak (added)

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  dev
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-
Comment (by Priya):

 Replying to [comment:6 Thibaud Colas]:

 Hi Thibaud,

 > After _that_, I think we’ll be in an excellent place for someone to pick
 up this ticket and write the right docs.
 What I can understand by going through this ticket is that we need to add
 more explicit examples of input formats to the form fields in our Docs. To
 get more clarity, I would like to know if the requirement is somewhat like
 detailed examples stated in DateTimeField
 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/ref/forms/fields/#datetimefield
 whereas just a link to accepted formats is given in DateField
 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/ref/forms/fields/#datefield. So are
 we looking to provide more information here?

 > A good first step would be to identify where in Django’s documentation
 we could document what’s discussed in this ticket.

 If my understanding of the ticket is apt, I would say adding the details
 within the respective fields themselves would be better as it would
 provide an easier understanding to the end user at a glance rather than
 moving to an altogether different section.

 Please correct me if I am proceeding in the wrong direction.
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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  dev
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-

Comment (by Thibaud Colas):

 See PR [Accessibility guidelines for all contributors #17338
 https://github.com/django/django/pull/17338] for the next step on adding
 accessibility docs in Django. After this, I believe [Add guidelines for
 accessibility in documentation #17340
 https://github.com/django/django/pull/17340] will be a good step in adding
 accessibility considerations in documentation.

 After _that_, I think we’ll be in an excellent place for someone to pick
 up this ticket and write the right docs. We don’t necessarily need all of
 this to be merged though if someone wants to already take a look. A good
 first step would be to identify where in Django’s documentation we could
 document what’s discussed in this ticket.

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-

Comment (by Surya):

 Hi Thibauld and Tom,

 I am a new contributor and after looking into issue tracker, I see this as
 a ticket that I would love to work on if nobody else is working on it.

 In case I get to work on this, I had a couple of questions regarding what
 needs to be done. Carlton asked me to ask my question here, so here it
 goes.

 1. For the suggestion of having explicit instructions on the Django
 documentation about the format of the form fields, as described in the
 ticket, should I focus on mentioning the default formats for the following
 fields -

 Date and time fields – DateField, DatetimeField, TimeField,
 SplitDateTimeField, DurationField
 More technical fields which have very specific formats: SlugField,
 JSONField, UUIDField, RegexField, GenericIPAddressField

 2. Should the changes in the documentation extend to issues such as #32339
 or #32338 on why it should be avoided?

 Please forgive me if I have not been able to understand the ticket
 responsibility the way it is intended, and I would be very grateful if the
 scope of the changes required could be pointed out to me by any senior
 member of the community.

 Thanks,
 Surya

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-

Comment (by Carlton Gibson):

 HI Thibauld.

 I think a small section in the docs would be great. We don't want to write
 a whole guide, but showing some basics and (if there are canonical
 resources) pointing on to more would likely be in scope.

 I think we can get some changes here into core too... :)

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-

Comment (by Thibaud Colas):

 I have discussed this again with a coworker, and we think that as an
 immediate action it would be best to have "accessibility considerations"
 as a standalone page in the forms / fields documentation, or cover it
 separately for each field, as preferred.

 For the issues listed here, this would allow us to:

 - Recommend using help_text (or template overrides?) to display the
 expected date format, with practical copy-paste-able examples
 - At the same time we could briefly mention why this is better than
 alternatives (having the format in error messages or as a placeholder
 attribute – both better than nothing but poor in comparison).

 Additionally, in the future, we could also cover common considerations for
 other field types:

 - How it’s rarely appropriate to use `type="number"` even if the field
 might be storable as a number (see
 https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-design-system-
 team-changed-the-input-type-for-numbers/).
 - How a `type=”date”` input should be favoured if browser support for a
 given project allows it

 And broader considerations that are relevant for all field types:

 - Usage of fieldsets
 - Usage of autocomplete / autocapitalize attributes
 - Visually distinguishing between optional and required fields

 ---

 This goes beyond what I reported here initially, and I’d still personally
 prefer something that could be done in Django core directly, but thought
 it would be worth mentioning nonetheless.

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-

Comment (by Thibaud Colas):

 Thank you, I think I’ll start with getting more familiar with the
 documentation so I can figure out where best to address this. And as I do
 I’ll likely have to come up with code snippets that might inform further
 changes.

 I think it would also be good to get feedback from others here – on the
 specific issues outlined here, and perhaps also more generally on how much
 it’s Django’s role to make sure it’s not too easy to misuse.

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Re: [Django] #32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns

[Django]

#32340: Usability issues with Django form fields expecting specific patterns
-+-
 Reporter:  Thibaud Colas|Owner:  nobody
 Type:   |   Status:  new
  Cleanup/optimization   |
Component:  Documentation|  Version:  master
 Severity:  Normal   |   Resolution:
 Keywords:  accessibility,   | Triage Stage:  Accepted
  usability, forms   |
Has patch:  0|  Needs documentation:  0
  Needs tests:  0|  Patch needs improvement:  0
Easy pickings:  0|UI/UX:  1
-+-
Changes (by Carlton Gibson):

 * type:  Uncategorized => Cleanup/optimization
 * component:  Forms => Documentation
 * stage:  Unreviewed => Accepted


Comment:

 Hi Thibaud.

 Initially let's accept this as a Documentation issue. Certainly we can do
 that right? 😀

 **Very happy** to consider specific changes that you come up with here
 too!

 Without some idea of what we might do though, it's a bit `needsinfo` —
 maybe targeted changes for single fields to begin...?
 A proof-of-concept here would help push it forward.

 Thanks! 👍

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