Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
On 08/02/2011 01:59 PM, highpointe wrote: Not to hijack the thread but as an additional question... Is anyone having success with CentOS? Thanks for letting me interject. :-) Our production server is on Cent OS and has been up for 742 days without a reboot. For whatever that's worth. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
Not to hijack the thread but as an additional question... Is anyone having success with CentOS? Thanks for letting me interject. :-) On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Steven Smith wrote: > We're using Gentoo 64-bit on all of our production webservers at work, > and I run 4 additional Gentoo-based Django servers outside of work. > > It took a long time to configure, and is not for the faint of heart. > > But, my stripped-down versions of Apache and Postgres run really fast > with a small memory footprint. Gentoo provided the framework that made > these customizations easy (a lot easier to optimize things with USE > flags than low-level compile options...). Since I don't have a lot of > the bloat that is plaguing Linux these days, I can do system updates > infrequently and quickly. The full day it took me to get the server > set up has more than paid for itself by making long-term maintenance a > snap. > > > > > On Aug 1, 4:27 am, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: >> Hi All, >> Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. >> >> I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora >> 15. >> IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on >> my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that >> too.) >> I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much >> stable, but still can support all relevant packages. >> >> Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. >> Please revert with your suggestions. >> >> Thanks, >> Anoop Thomas Mathew >> >> atm >> ___ >> Life is short, Live it hard. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
We're using Gentoo 64-bit on all of our production webservers at work, and I run 4 additional Gentoo-based Django servers outside of work. It took a long time to configure, and is not for the faint of heart. But, my stripped-down versions of Apache and Postgres run really fast with a small memory footprint. Gentoo provided the framework that made these customizations easy (a lot easier to optimize things with USE flags than low-level compile options...). Since I don't have a lot of the bloat that is plaguing Linux these days, I can do system updates infrequently and quickly. The full day it took me to get the server set up has more than paid for itself by making long-term maintenance a snap. On Aug 1, 4:27 am, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: > Hi All, > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. > > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora > 15. > IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on > my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that > too.) > I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much > stable, but still can support all relevant packages. > > Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. > Please revert with your suggestions. > > Thanks, > Anoop Thomas Mathew > > atm > ___ > Life is short, Live it hard. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Doug Ballance wrote: > I'll second the use of something like LXC (new to me) or OpenVZ (what > we use), allowing you to run/test multiple distros at once. If you > want to try debian (or pretty much any linux distro), download a > container skeleton for it and install in a few seconds. I've used > virtualbox/kvm, but I found containers in openvz to be much easier to > work with. A 'machine' is simply a folder on the host server. You > can zip it up, move between machines, rsync it. Whatever. It's like > virtualenv for distros. > > To be able to rsync/clone an entire container to create a second > instance for upgrade or other testing is a wonderful thing. Since we > also use in production, it's a simple remote rsync to have a fully > working clone of our live servers for troubleshooting too. I can't > imagine going back at this point, and even run it on single purpose > machines in production for the flexibilty. > +1. The same concept applies to LXC. Even before we used LXC, we used to just use a basic chroot with our own hacky init.d stuff ;D Containers are the way forward! > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
I'll second the use of something like LXC (new to me) or OpenVZ (what we use), allowing you to run/test multiple distros at once. If you want to try debian (or pretty much any linux distro), download a container skeleton for it and install in a few seconds. I've used virtualbox/kvm, but I found containers in openvz to be much easier to work with. A 'machine' is simply a folder on the host server. You can zip it up, move between machines, rsync it. Whatever. It's like virtualenv for distros. To be able to rsync/clone an entire container to create a second instance for upgrade or other testing is a wonderful thing. Since we also use in production, it's a simple remote rsync to have a fully working clone of our live servers for troubleshooting too. I can't imagine going back at this point, and even run it on single purpose machines in production for the flexibilty. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: > Hi, > > Thank you all for your suggestions, Especially, Cal and Sam. > I'd go with Debian Squeeze. That seems to be the best choice for now. > +1 on Sams comments. > > To be clear about the question, I'm using linux operating systems for the > past 7 years. The errors are not specific nor recurring, nor even device > specific. Just gets stuck in between. I've never checked the log, as you > said, that might have helped. Same OS on a server with a specific app > running, might run stable for years. The time gap would be 2-3 months > between screen freezes. And nothing in specific would be there to note. I > just want an OS which is a Juggernaut, that's it. > Screen freezes can sometimes be relates to the OOM-killer entering into an unrecoverable loop (this happens when certain drivers are loaded at run time, as they cause the oom_score to act crazily). They can also be related to the server hitting swap (which I went into detail on earlier). Could possibly be faulty memory (try running memtest86+ from boot). Or, it could even be something causing the kernel to seg fault (certain file systems, such as OCFS2, can cause this to happen). Hope this helps, and good luck! > > Compare this to a rolling release or distro with releases every 6-12 > months where kernel is changing and OS has bleeding edge versions and > you will have a larger gaumet of issues. Concequently you will have to > know more and be better at problem solving. Will you have a rollback > plan when the dist-upgrade finishes and something breaks in a new > exciting way? > > > > I'd seriously consider a rollback plan if it breaks. > Personally, I keep all our installs separated by means of LXC (google for 'lxc cgroup'). Meaning, there is a host OS and a guest container. The host OS is on LTS with security updates only, whilst the guest OS is on more frequent updates. This makes repair a lot easier if something breaks in the guest OS. (LXC isn't virtualisation, it uses cgroups in the kernel, but you need to know your way around the kernel compile quite well to get it working properly. On top of this, I personally don't use 'dist-upgrade' and much prefer to do a system re-install where possible. As we use LXC, once the host is re-installed, it's just simply a case of copying over the guest container, and placing into initd. If we had iSCSI, it would be even simpler. And if you had an auto deploy image, that would be even simpler still. But it's taken us almost 5 years to get to the point where we are comfortable with our processes. It's really a self learning curve to find what suits you best :) > So Thanks again, > > Anoop > > atm > ___ > Life is short, Live it hard. > > > > > On 1 August 2011 18:55, Sam Walters wrote: > >> If a modern linux OS is crashing then it will likely /var/log whats >> going wrong. The phrasing of this issue seems to indicate lack of >> experience or familiarity with the linux os or unix model of os. >> Thats no problem if you are keen to learn the principles of the OS you >> will get better at using the OS and identifying issues. >> >> Now to answer your question specifically: >> debian stable branch is a good idea. I assume you will stick to >> something and keep it so go for a distro with long term support/longer >> release cycle. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Stable_ports >> >> Good documentation, forums, community support. >> >> I would avoid rapid release cycle stuff unless you know what you're >> doing. Eg: i use apto-sid which is an unstable branch of debian for >> some servers but i know what im getting myself into. >> >> I say debian because the package management, runs nearly all the >> dependencies that django and a lot of its addons require. Also once >> you have built a server stack... eg: nginx+fcgi+django+memcached+mysql >> or any web server stack of your choice on a stable distro you will >> reduce the pool of possible issues with any of these aformentioned >> components to a minimum and the problems can be googled with ease. And >> keep doing this for ~5 years until they stop the LTS and it stops >> getting security patches. eg: debian etch 2010 >> >> Compare this to a rolling release or distro with releases every 6-12 >> months where kernel is changing and OS has bleeding edge versions and >> you will have a larger gaumet of issues. Concequently you will have to >> know more and be better at problem solving. Will you have a rollback >> plan when the dist-upgrade finishes and something breaks in a new >> exciting way? >> >> Obviously you can develop on any flavour of linux shouldnt matter. >> Managing a production server is different ballgame. >> >> >> good luck and i hope this advice helps >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Anoop Thomas Mathew >> wrote: >> > Hi All, >> > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. >> > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to >> fedora >> > 15. >> > I
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
Hi, Thank you all for your suggestions, Especially, Cal and Sam. I'd go with Debian Squeeze. That seems to be the best choice for now. To be clear about the question, I'm using linux operating systems for the past 7 years. The errors are not specific nor recurring, nor even device specific. Just gets stuck in between. I've never checked the log, as you said, that might have helped. Same OS on a server with a specific app running, might run stable for years. The time gap would be 2-3 months between screen freezes. And nothing in specific would be there to note. I just want an OS which is a Juggernaut, that's it. Compare this to a rolling release or distro with releases every 6-12 months where kernel is changing and OS has bleeding edge versions and you will have a larger gaumet of issues. Concequently you will have to know more and be better at problem solving. Will you have a rollback plan when the dist-upgrade finishes and something breaks in a new exciting way? I'd seriously consider a rollback plan if it breaks. So Thanks again, Anoop atm ___ Life is short, Live it hard. On 1 August 2011 18:55, Sam Walters wrote: > If a modern linux OS is crashing then it will likely /var/log whats > going wrong. The phrasing of this issue seems to indicate lack of > experience or familiarity with the linux os or unix model of os. > Thats no problem if you are keen to learn the principles of the OS you > will get better at using the OS and identifying issues. > > Now to answer your question specifically: > debian stable branch is a good idea. I assume you will stick to > something and keep it so go for a distro with long term support/longer > release cycle. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Stable_ports > > Good documentation, forums, community support. > > I would avoid rapid release cycle stuff unless you know what you're > doing. Eg: i use apto-sid which is an unstable branch of debian for > some servers but i know what im getting myself into. > > I say debian because the package management, runs nearly all the > dependencies that django and a lot of its addons require. Also once > you have built a server stack... eg: nginx+fcgi+django+memcached+mysql > or any web server stack of your choice on a stable distro you will > reduce the pool of possible issues with any of these aformentioned > components to a minimum and the problems can be googled with ease. And > keep doing this for ~5 years until they stop the LTS and it stops > getting security patches. eg: debian etch 2010 > > Compare this to a rolling release or distro with releases every 6-12 > months where kernel is changing and OS has bleeding edge versions and > you will have a larger gaumet of issues. Concequently you will have to > know more and be better at problem solving. Will you have a rollback > plan when the dist-upgrade finishes and something breaks in a new > exciting way? > > Obviously you can develop on any flavour of linux shouldnt matter. > Managing a production server is different ballgame. > > > good luck and i hope this advice helps > > > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Anoop Thomas Mathew > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. > > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to > fedora > > 15. > > IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up > on > > my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that > > too.) > > I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much > > stable, but still can support all relevant packages. > > Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. > > Please revert with your suggestions. > > Thanks, > > Anoop Thomas Mathew > > atm > > ___ > > Life is short, Live it hard. > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Django users" group. > > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
If a modern linux OS is crashing then it will likely /var/log whats going wrong. The phrasing of this issue seems to indicate lack of experience or familiarity with the linux os or unix model of os. Thats no problem if you are keen to learn the principles of the OS you will get better at using the OS and identifying issues. Now to answer your question specifically: debian stable branch is a good idea. I assume you will stick to something and keep it so go for a distro with long term support/longer release cycle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Stable_ports Good documentation, forums, community support. I would avoid rapid release cycle stuff unless you know what you're doing. Eg: i use apto-sid which is an unstable branch of debian for some servers but i know what im getting myself into. I say debian because the package management, runs nearly all the dependencies that django and a lot of its addons require. Also once you have built a server stack... eg: nginx+fcgi+django+memcached+mysql or any web server stack of your choice on a stable distro you will reduce the pool of possible issues with any of these aformentioned components to a minimum and the problems can be googled with ease. And keep doing this for ~5 years until they stop the LTS and it stops getting security patches. eg: debian etch 2010 Compare this to a rolling release or distro with releases every 6-12 months where kernel is changing and OS has bleeding edge versions and you will have a larger gaumet of issues. Concequently you will have to know more and be better at problem solving. Will you have a rollback plan when the dist-upgrade finishes and something breaks in a new exciting way? Obviously you can develop on any flavour of linux shouldnt matter. Managing a production server is different ballgame. good luck and i hope this advice helps On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: > Hi All, > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora > 15. > IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on > my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that > too.) > I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much > stable, but still can support all relevant packages. > Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. > Please revert with your suggestions. > Thanks, > Anoop Thomas Mathew > atm > ___ > Life is short, Live it hard. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
i will go for freebsd which is unix. but all depends on the admin abd hardware.. On Aug 1, 2011 5:17 PM, "Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]" < cal.leem...@simplicitymedialtd.co.uk> wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
I've used Debian (lenny+squeeze) for many years now in Python/Django development, and it's served me well. But, you can easily turn a system into a nervous wreck if you don't configure it properly, or use "bleeding edge" without fully knowing whats happening. All distros of Linux are a learning curve, but here are some of the issues I came up against in Debian (some of which would apply to other flavors too) - Usage of DRBD + OCFS2 causes kernel deadlocks - The most common reason for a server dying, is due to it swapping out (personally, I disable swap, and rely on the kernels OOM-killer) - avoid this by ensuring you account for every single byte of memory being used. - Syncing multiple software RAIDs at the same time causes huge un-proportional RAID IO slowdown. - Most reliable stack so far is nginx+uwsgi+php fpm for fcgi. - use LXC containers to enforce memory limits (don't rely on limits.conf for this, seriously). - be careful when enabling chroot + pax restrictions in grsec, it can cause problems. Tons more, but I think these are the most common I came across. Cal On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: > Hi All, > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. > > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora > 15. > IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on > my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that > too.) > I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much > stable, but still can support all relevant packages. > > Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. > Please revert with your suggestions. > > Thanks, > Anoop Thomas Mathew > > atm > ___ > Life is short, Live it hard. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Anoop Thomas Mathew wrote: > Hi All, > Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. Then you asked the wrong question. This will automatically become a series of 'Oh I use X and its much better than Y in this scenario". > I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora > 15. > IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on > my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that > too.) Then your hardware is malfunctioning. All three of those should not crash. > I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much > stable, but still can support all relevant packages. > Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. > Please revert with your suggestions. > Thanks, > Anoop Thomas Mathew > atm You can try Debian, Suse, RHEL. Debian will behave similar to Ubunutu, RHEL similar to Fedora. Personally, I use FreeBSD, which is not linux. Cheers Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
RE: Most stable Linux distribution for Django - Python development
Hi All, Firstly, I am not here for a distro war. I was using ubuntu 9.10, and then switched to fedora 14 and then to fedora 15. IMHO, It seems that they all were quite unstable. (Many times it hung up on my Dell and HP machines - may be driver issues, still I don't want that too.) I would really like some recommendation for a linux distro which is much stable, but still can support all relevant packages. Top recommendations I found around was Debian and OpenSuse. Please revert with your suggestions. Thanks, Anoop Thomas Mathew atm ___ Life is short, Live it hard. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
