Re: [DNG] Interesting comment from a kernel developer

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello *,

2015-07-22 3:07 GMT+02:00 Go Linux :

> What is this about 'baroque init scripts' and wanting to have only ONE
> option?  Rather prescient in light of where we are now . . .
>

This  mean, Debian has droped anything and now users AND developers have to
bother with crappy "systemd".

Some days ago I have updated an Etch system release by release to Jessie
and now, nothing is working anymore! Have killed Jessie and installed in
the Last two days a new Wheeze MiniITX machine and now anything is working
as expected.

I will do anything to get rid of "systemd"!!! It is a nightmare!

-- 
Michelle Konzack
GNU/Linux Developer
0049-176-86004575
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Re: [DNG] Jeep Cherokee hacked

[Brad Campbell]

On 22/07/15 10:15, James Powell wrote:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2015/07/21/hackers-discover-way-to-remotely-control-jeeps/?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fb

It appears, from the looks of things, Ashley Madison isn't the only one
getting hacked.

I'm wondering how this is happening so rampantly recently, but I'm
trying hard not to point any fingers.


Good, stop all the completely unfounded and uninformed hysterical 
speculation. It has absolutely nothing to do with Devuan or this list.



Does anyone know what OS is being used by these vehicles?


They are achieving it via an on-line firmware update and downloading a 
completely new firmware to the entertainment unit. OS is irrelevant.



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[DNG] Jeep Cherokee hacked

[James Powell]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2015/07/21/hackers-discover-way-to-remotely-control-jeeps/?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fb

It appears, from the looks of things, Ashley Madison isn't the only one getting 
hacked.

I'm wondering how this is happening so rampantly recently, but I'm trying hard 
not to point any fingers.

Does anyone know what OS is being used by these vehicles?___
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[DNG] Interesting comment from a kernel developer

[Go Linux]

Just ran across this interview from 2011:

https://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/12/13/people-behind-debian-ben-hutchings-member-of-the-kernel-team/

Tucked away at the end was this quote:

Raphael: What’s the biggest problem of Debian?

Ben: I think we try too hard to accommodate every possible option, without 
regard for the cost to developers and users in general. As an example, we now 
have sysvinit, file-rc, upstart and systemd all in testing. Daemon maintainers 
can’t rely on any advanced features of upstart or systemd because we refuse to 
choose between them. And the decision to support the FreeBSD kernel means that 
we cannot choose upstart or systemd as the only option. So all daemon 
maintainers will have to maintain those baroque init scripts for the indefinite 
future. We really should be able to decide as a distribution that when one 
option is technically good and popular then it can be made the only option. But 
no-one really has the authority to do that, so we muddle along with the 
pretence that all the options are equally valid and functional, while none of 
them is supported as well as they should be.

What is this about 'baroque init scripts' and wanting to have only ONE option?  
Rather prescient in light of where we are now . . .

Just sharing . . . 

golinux 
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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 09:09:31PM +0630, Ста Деюс wrote:
> Good time of the day, Hendrik.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:14:06 -0400 you wrote:
> 
> > If you know which key it is.
> > 
> > > -- One key for
> > > cope/move the text! One key for: point the place of insertion,
> > > saving file ! -- Again, what can be easier?!  
> > 
> > If you know which key it is.
> > 
> > Is there an explanatory legend on-screen somewhere?
> 
> What could be easier than just look at the screen bottom of
> MCeditor/MC ?!

I'll take that as a yes.  I don't have the releavant software installed,
because I keep typing mc when I mean mv, so I can't just look.  

-- hendrik
k
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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[Ста Деюс]

Good time of the day, Didier.


On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:01:10 +0200 you wrote:

> Not Linuxisms, GNUisms. Nano (and Emacs) belongs to GNU, and you 
> know it: GNU's Not Unix! Do not forget we are talking of GNU/Linux. 
> Trying to be POSIX-compliant, sure, but GNU nevertheless... a
> dilemma :-)

Well. I've read somewhere one said, that Stallman (do not how to spell
right his lastname), himself, had betrayed free software for his own
editor (probably regarding some dealing of "Red Hat"). So, GNU, well,
but thinking how to live "the right way" -- nobody abolished.


Regards, Sthu.
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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[Ста Деюс]

Good time of the day, Hendrik.


On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:18:31 -0400 you wrote:

> > Pardon, but funny! :o)  
> 
> Funny, yes, but very true.  I don't think they looked at keyboard 
> distance between the various commands when they named them.

You can make a symlink to mc w/ whatsoever name you would.


Regards, Sthu.
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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[Ста Деюс]

Good time of the day, Hendrik.


On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 08:14:06 -0400 you wrote:

> If you know which key it is.
> 
> > -- One key for
> > cope/move the text! One key for: point the place of insertion,
> > saving file ! -- Again, what can be easier?!  
> 
> If you know which key it is.
> 
> Is there an explanatory legend on-screen somewhere?

What could be easier than just look at the screen bottom of
MCeditor/MC ?!


Regards, Sthu.
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Re: [DNG] Proposed defaults changes

[fsmithred]

On 07/16/2015 04:11 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> 
> for instance we may have refractalinux for a good devuan based live, or 
> dynebolic for multimedia studio, or centurionlinux (made up thinking of Dan) 
> for a good server base. Devuan should serve well as a reliable base for all 
> those, as this is exactly where Debian is failing.
> 

Yes, I would like to build refracta on devuan, and I could also make a
live iso of the default devuan desktop installation. If anyone has
specific requests, let me know. Whenever the beta installer comes out,
I'll probably make a live iso of the installation.

fsr

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Re: [DNG] openRC

[Antonio Trkdz.tab]

"Devuan appears to want to stick to sysvinit for the initial release.
Afterwards however, is debatable"

Yes, thank you for the clarification, maybe I wasn't clear.
After the first release was what I meant.



On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 12:42 PM, James Powell 
wrote:

>  Devuan appears to want to stick to sysvinit for the initial release.
> Afterwards however, is debatable, but regardless, sanity in init is going
> to be probably prevalent.
>
> I too favor OpenRC as well as it is really a sane way to extend sysvinit.
>  --
> From: Antonio Trkdz.tab 
> Sent: ‎7/‎21/‎2015 4:03 AM
> To: Dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: [DNG] openRC
>
>  Dear List,
>
>  I have been following your discussions with a lot of interest for quite a
> bit now.
>  I really admire what you are doing as I really felt let down by Debian's
> decision to prevent people to have a choice.
>
>  I am not a programmer and I consider myself an average user, I have been
> using Debian for years and I was very happy with it.
>  I am using Wheezy right now and I am waiting for the stable release of
> Devuan to make the switch.
>
>  I used Gentoo in the past and I remember that openRC was very easy to
> get used to and appeared to get the job done fairly well and neatly.
> Would it be useful to consider to adopt this system for forthcoming
> releases of Devuan, since it is a complement of sysvinit?
>
>  This is just an humble thought from a non technical point of view, I
> hope you take it for what it is.
>
>  Thank you all for your exceptional work.
>
>  Antoniotrkdz
>
>  P.S.: I am sorry if this question was already made in early
> conversations and I missed it.
>
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Re: [DNG] openRC

[James Powell]

Devuan appears to want to stick to sysvinit for the initial release. Afterwards 
however, is debatable, but regardless, sanity in init is going to be probably 
prevalent.

I too favor OpenRC as well as it is really a sane way to extend sysvinit.

From: Antonio Trkdz.tab
Sent: ‎7/‎21/‎2015 4:03 AM
To: Dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [DNG] openRC

Dear List,

I have been following your discussions with a lot of interest for quite a
bit now.
I really admire what you are doing as I really felt let down by Debian's
decision to prevent people to have a choice.

I am not a programmer and I consider myself an average user, I have been
using Debian for years and I was very happy with it.
I am using Wheezy right now and I am waiting for the stable release of
Devuan to make the switch.

I used Gentoo in the past and I remember that openRC was very easy to get
used to and appeared to get the job done fairly well and neatly.
Would it be useful to consider to adopt this system for forthcoming
releases of Devuan, since it is a complement of sysvinit?

This is just an humble thought from a non technical point of view, I hope
you take it for what it is.

Thank you all for your exceptional work.

Antoniotrkdz

P.S.: I am sorry if this question was already made in early conversations
and I missed it.
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[DNG] openRC

[Antonio Trkdz.tab]

Dear List,

I have been following your discussions with a lot of interest for quite a
bit now.
I really admire what you are doing as I really felt let down by Debian's
decision to prevent people to have a choice.

I am not a programmer and I consider myself an average user, I have been
using Debian for years and I was very happy with it.
I am using Wheezy right now and I am waiting for the stable release of
Devuan to make the switch.

I used Gentoo in the past and I remember that openRC was very easy to get
used to and appeared to get the job done fairly well and neatly.
Would it be useful to consider to adopt this system for forthcoming
releases of Devuan, since it is a complement of sysvinit?

This is just an humble thought from a non technical point of view, I hope
you take it for what it is.

Thank you all for your exceptional work.

Antoniotrkdz

P.S.: I am sorry if this question was already made in early conversations
and I missed it.
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Re: [DNG] Upcoming Kali Linux 2.0 - systemd?

[James Powell]

Oh wow. I've used Kali for testing security on networking routers and firewalls 
myself. I hope they can switch out to Devuan also. Be a real shame to see them 
get plagued by systemd.

Often at times I forget how many specialized distributions for R&D and testing 
are Debian based.

From: Jaromil
Sent: ‎7/‎21/‎2015 2:51 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: [DNG] Upcoming Kali Linux 2.0 - systemd?


dear list,

I'm sure you heard of Kali, likely most people here still remembers
Backtrack: there was a rename along the way. This is the most popular
distro packed with penetration-testing and networking tools, Debian
based.

since a while they have been forced to switch to systemd as any other
Debian derivative, now they are approaching a 2.0 release and of course
have problems with systemd which will likely lead to some weaknesses in
an otherwise pretty well hardened distro.

See: https://bugs.kali.org/view.php?id=1871 for instance they are
experiencing problems in avoiding daemons to start at boot.

Has anyone here contacts with Kali? At Devuan we would be delighted to
work with them to make it possible to have at least a systemd-free
flavor of Kali so that users don't have to struggle with the avalanche
and attack surface opened by it. Kali users are technical aware and have
solid concerns about security, I think working together to have at least
an alternative would be a win-win situation, as many Devuan developers
are also Kali users and we wouldn't have to do all this work by
ourselves then. It should be as easy as switching the source repository.

ciao


--
Jaromil, Dyne.org Software Foundry (est. 2000)
We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf
GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02  C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10
Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil

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Re: [DNG] Upcoming Kali Linux 2.0 - systemd?

[Bardot Jérôme]

I know Raphaël Hertzog ( hert...@debian.org ) a french dev
work with debian and kali. He also write debian handbook.

Maybe he can help.


Le 21/07/2015 11:51, Jaromil a écrit :
> 
> dear list,
> 
> I'm sure you heard of Kali, likely most people here still remembers
> Backtrack: there was a rename along the way. This is the most popular
> distro packed with penetration-testing and networking tools, Debian
> based.
> 
> since a while they have been forced to switch to systemd as any other
> Debian derivative, now they are approaching a 2.0 release and of course
> have problems with systemd which will likely lead to some weaknesses in
> an otherwise pretty well hardened distro.
> 
> See: https://bugs.kali.org/view.php?id=1871 for instance they are
> experiencing problems in avoiding daemons to start at boot.
> 
> Has anyone here contacts with Kali? At Devuan we would be delighted to
> work with them to make it possible to have at least a systemd-free
> flavor of Kali so that users don't have to struggle with the avalanche
> and attack surface opened by it. Kali users are technical aware and have
> solid concerns about security, I think working together to have at least
> an alternative would be a win-win situation, as many Devuan developers
> are also Kali users and we wouldn't have to do all this work by
> ourselves then. It should be as easy as switching the source repository.
> 
> ciao
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[DNG] Upcoming Kali Linux 2.0 - systemd?

[Jaromil]

dear list,

I'm sure you heard of Kali, likely most people here still remembers
Backtrack: there was a rename along the way. This is the most popular
distro packed with penetration-testing and networking tools, Debian
based.

since a while they have been forced to switch to systemd as any other
Debian derivative, now they are approaching a 2.0 release and of course
have problems with systemd which will likely lead to some weaknesses in
an otherwise pretty well hardened distro.

See: https://bugs.kali.org/view.php?id=1871 for instance they are
experiencing problems in avoiding daemons to start at boot.

Has anyone here contacts with Kali? At Devuan we would be delighted to
work with them to make it possible to have at least a systemd-free
flavor of Kali so that users don't have to struggle with the avalanche
and attack surface opened by it. Kali users are technical aware and have
solid concerns about security, I think working together to have at least
an alternative would be a win-win situation, as many Devuan developers
are also Kali users and we wouldn't have to do all this work by
ourselves then. It should be as easy as switching the source repository.

ciao


-- 
Jaromil, Dyne.org Software Foundry (est. 2000)
We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
Web: https://j.dyne.org Contact: https://j.dyne.org/c.vcf
GPG: 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02  C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10
Confidential communications: https://keybase.io/jaromil



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