Re: [DNG] Excessive bouncing

[James Powell]

The attachment is the html formatting my client uses. I think it's just a 
checksum file so just ignore it.

From: Go Linux
Sent: ‎8/‎11/‎2015 9:32 AM
To: dng@lists.dyne.org; James 
Powell
Subject: Re: [DNG] Excessive bouncing

I just got that message again too.  Yes, really annoying . . .

BTW, your inline attachments are not coming through the dng list.


On Tue, 8/11/15, James Powell  wrote:

 Subject: [DNG] Excessive bouncing
 To: "dng@lists.dyne.org" 
 Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015, 11:16 AM

 Not
 to complain, but this bouncing problem is really getting on
 my nerves. What exactly is causing
 this?
 -Inline Attachment Follows-

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Re: [DNG] [Ruby on rails - RVM] Patch for RVM and Devuan

[Jaromil]

dear aleskandro,

On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, aleskandro wrote:

> The patch was merged. Now devuan is supported by rvm in the branch master.

many thanks for your contribution and good luck with your project!

ciao

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Re: [DNG] [Ruby on rails - RVM] Patch for RVM and Devuan

[aleskandro]

The patch was merged. Now devuan is supported by rvm in the branch master.


-- 
A presto
aleskan...@lucylaika.ovh
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 11, Issue 36

[aitor_czr]

Are you talking about a minimal installation of Devuan (Standard or 
Server..., or whatever you want to call) containing a postinstallation 
script (style of Crunchbang) which acts like tasksel? It requires 
network connection !

Wicd-daemon? Network-manager depends on systemd.

Aitor.

El 11/08/15 a las 19:36, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org escribió:

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:52:08 -0700
From: Go Linux
To:dng@lists.dyne.org, Steve Litt
Subject: Re: [DNG] Packaging (was  Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in
packages,   possibly Mission Creep)
Message-ID:
<1439311928.3137.yahoomailba...@web163401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, 8/11/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

  Subject: Re: [DNG] Packaging (was  Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, 
possibly Mission Creep)
  To:dng@lists.dyne.org
  Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015, 11:27 AM
  
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:02:28 -0700

Go Linux  wrote:


>On Mon, 8/10/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

[snip]


> >* base install
> >* apt-get install xorg
> >* apt-get install xterm (if not installed by xorg)
> >* apt-get install Xfce (or whatever)
> >* apt-get install lightdm

[snip]


>Several years ago, I actually built up xfce (without the meta
>package) from a base install.  Then I found refracta which simplified
>my life as it was very close to what I wanted.  fsmithred has
>promised to build a devuan iso for the likes of me.  But he's not
>been seen around here in some time and the refracta forums haven't
>had much traffic lately . . . maybe because it's summer.  Once the
>beta appears I'm hoping he'll spin into action.  Doing this all from
>scratch would be a bit of a challenge for me . . . the years are
>beginning to take a toll . . .

Hi golinux,

I've known you for what, a year now? My impression is you're smart and
skilled enough to find it almost trivial to install base, then xorg,
then xterm, then a window manager, then lightdm. I've seen you do a
lot more challenging stuff than that, including making very inciteful
contributions to discussions on infrastructure. My impression of
you is that if you put your mind to it, you could install Arch or
Gentoo, and those really do take some concentration and resolution of
ambiguities. But anyway...

I'll admit I've met people who couldn't follow a five step apt-get
sequence, but you're about a million miles from that.

Well, anyway, you were speaking for those guys who can't follow a 5
step recipe, and that's legitimate.*If*  it's decided that the base
install should be minimal, it would be pretty easy to make a
shellscript to do all X installation in one command. If the base
install included nCurses and Dialog, it could even be a no-argument
script that queried for everything:

* Do you want a Graphical User Interface (GUI) (Y/n)

* Do you want to boot straight to Graphics mode? (y/N)

* If booting straight to Graphics mode, require password? (Y/n)

* Which window mgr? (Xfce/LXDE/Openbox/Whatever/Other)

* If Other, please enter the WM name here ><

* Thank you. Press Enter to perform this work, press Ctrl+C to abort:


Of course, the prompts would need to be*much*  more tailored to the
uninitiated user, who for instance, doesn't know what a Graphical User
Interface, a window manager are, or why he would or wouldn't want a
password.

The benefit of doing it this way is it's being performed on an already
installed system that's almost guaranteed to boot just fine.

SteveT


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Re: [DNG] Devuan compared to AntiX

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Litt" 
> Rob is right about the difficulty of installing Funtoo. As a matter of
> fact, I'd say he's understated it.
> 
> I'd go so far as to say Funtoo is only for technically proficient
> people, and unlike *buntu, Debian, Devuan, OpenSuSE and Manjaro
> (systemd or OpenRC), cannot be used by the guy whose entire
> relationship with a computer is running programs. In my opinion, Funtoo
> installation requires a soul-deep understanding of the concept of
> chroot installation and configuration: Not only the Hows, but the Whys.
> 
> Funtoo's for a guy like me, not a guy like the typical *buntu user.
> 
> If you choose to install Funtoo, I'd *very* highly recommend you do it
> two or three times on a Qemu virtual machine, because it goes fairly
> quickly (8 hours) there. On metal it might take a day or a weekend,
> depending on the metal. Make sure the VM has at least 28GB of disk
> space, you need 14 just for kernel compilation alone.

Steve, you no longer have to compile the kernel to install Funtoo.  That
removes quite a bit of the disk space and time requirements to install.
But you are correct, it is not for beginners and it requires familiarity
with (or willingness to learn) advanced concepts.

However, using it is easy.  So if the OP's friends would be relying on
him to install the OS and take care of upgrades, then only the OP needs
to put in the extra work -- not his friends.

-Rob
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Re: [DNG] Devuan compared to AntiX

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:35:54 -0400 (EDT)
Rob Owens  wrote:

> - Original Message -
> > From: "Robert Storey" 
> 
> > Other suggestions for non-systemd software are welcome. The main
> > criteria is that it actually has to be something useful, something
> > that I might install and use daily. Thus, far-out stuff like Minix
> > is not a consideration, even if it's fun to play with.
> 
> I'd suggest Funtoo, if you haven't reviewed it already.  Start here:
> 
> http://www.funtoo.org/Install
> 
> Many reviews I read form their opinion of a distro based on how easy
> the install process is.  If that is your plan, don't bother.  The
> install takes a while, and you probably won't really appreciate the
> distro until you have used it for a while.
> 
> -Rob

Rob is right about the difficulty of installing Funtoo. As a matter of
fact, I'd say he's understated it.

I'd go so far as to say Funtoo is only for technically proficient
people, and unlike *buntu, Debian, Devuan, OpenSuSE and Manjaro
(systemd or OpenRC), cannot be used by the guy whose entire
relationship with a computer is running programs. In my opinion, Funtoo
installation requires a soul-deep understanding of the concept of
chroot installation and configuration: Not only the Hows, but the Whys.

Funtoo's for a guy like me, not a guy like the typical *buntu user.

If you choose to install Funtoo, I'd *very* highly recommend you do it
two or three times on a Qemu virtual machine, because it goes fairly
quickly (8 hours) there. On metal it might take a day or a weekend,
depending on the metal. Make sure the VM has at least 28GB of disk
space, you need 14 just for kernel compilation alone.

If you're not yet familiar with the procedure and philosophy of chroot
installation and configuration and Grubbing, I'd recommend before doing
anything with Funtoo or Arch or Slackware or any other chroot
installer, you install Plop Linux several times on a VM.

https://www.plop.at/en/ploplinux/index.html

http://troubleshooters.com/linux/diy/plopinst.htm

Plop Linux is incredibly simple, and if your experience is anything
like mine, it will make lightbulbs go on concerning all sorts of Linux
concepts, including chroot installation and configuration and bustins.

Once you truly understand the whole chroot thing, Funtoo installation
will make sense and will be approachable.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
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Re: [DNG] Devuan compared to AntiX

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Robert Storey" 

> Other suggestions for non-systemd software are welcome. The main criteria is
> that it actually has to be something useful, something that I might install 
> and
> use daily. Thus, far-out stuff like Minix is not a consideration, even if it's
> fun to play with.

I'd suggest Funtoo, if you haven't reviewed it already.  Start here:

http://www.funtoo.org/Install

Many reviews I read form their opinion of a distro based on how easy the install
process is.  If that is your plan, don't bother.  The install takes a while, and
you probably won't really appreciate the distro until you have used it for a 
while.

-Rob
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Re: [DNG] non-systemd Linux for newbies with good migration tool?

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Litt" 
> Isaac Dunham  wrote:

>> -binary based
> You just ruled out Funtoo.

FYI, Funtoo (and Gentoo, as I understand it) can be set to 
automatically create packages when software is compiled.  So 
you can have a single machine do all the compiling, and all 
the other machines get packages from that first machine.

-Rob
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Re: [DNG] Packaging (was Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, possibly Mission Creep)

[Go Linux]

On Tue, 8/11/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Packaging (was  Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, 
possibly Mission Creep)
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015, 11:27 AM
 
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:02:28 -0700
Go Linux  wrote:

> On Mon, 8/10/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

[snip]

> > * base install
> > * apt-get install xorg
> > * apt-get install xterm (if not installed by xorg)
> > * apt-get install Xfce (or whatever)
> > * apt-get install lightdm

[snip]

> Several years ago, I actually built up xfce (without the meta
> package) from a base install.  Then I found refracta which simplified
> my life as it was very close to what I wanted.  fsmithred has
> promised to build a devuan iso for the likes of me.  But he's not
> been seen around here in some time and the refracta forums haven't
> had much traffic lately . . . maybe because it's summer.  Once the
> beta appears I'm hoping he'll spin into action.  Doing this all from
> scratch would be a bit of a challenge for me . . . the years are
> beginning to take a toll . . .

Hi golinux,

I've known you for what, a year now? My impression is you're smart and
skilled enough to find it almost trivial to install base, then xorg,
then xterm, then a window manager, then lightdm. I've seen you do a
lot more challenging stuff than that, including making very inciteful
contributions to discussions on infrastructure. My impression of
you is that if you put your mind to it, you could install Arch or
Gentoo, and those really do take some concentration and resolution of
ambiguities. But anyway...

I'll admit I've met people who couldn't follow a five step apt-get
sequence, but you're about a million miles from that.

Well, anyway, you were speaking for those guys who can't follow a 5
step recipe, and that's legitimate. *If* it's decided that the base
install should be minimal, it would be pretty easy to make a
shellscript to do all X installation in one command. If the base
install included nCurses and Dialog, it could even be a no-argument
script that queried for everything:

* Do you want a Graphical User Interface (GUI) (Y/n)

* Do you want to boot straight to Graphics mode? (y/N)

* If booting straight to Graphics mode, require password? (Y/n)

* Which window mgr? (Xfce/LXDE/Openbox/Whatever/Other)

* If Other, please enter the WM name here ><

* Thank you. Press Enter to perform this work, press Ctrl+C to abort:


Of course, the prompts would need to be *much* more tailored to the
uninitiated user, who for instance, doesn't know what a Graphical User
Interface, a window manager are, or why he would or wouldn't want a
password.

The benefit of doing it this way is it's being performed on an already
installed system that's almost guaranteed to boot just fine.

SteveT



Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :)  This back injury has really slowed me 
down mentally as well as physically.  Three months of nearly constant pain 
messes with your mind  - no happy pills here.  :)  So I am finding simple tasks 
even more challenging as the months wear on.

I like the idea of a script with options to do the deed.  Just don't ask me to 
write it!

One more thing . . . as to this:

"I've seen you do a lot more challenging stuff than that, including making very 
inciteful
contributions to discussions on infrastructure."

Yes, I am a troublemaker and often attempt to INCITE the hordes into revolt but 
I'm hoping you meant INSIGHTFUL.  ;)   Those homonyms will come to bite you if 
you're not careful . . .  ;)

It's always a pleasure, Steve . . .  :)

golinux


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Re: [DNG] Excessive bouncing

[Go Linux]

I just got that message again too.  Yes, really annoying . . .
 
BTW, your inline attachments are not coming through the dng list.  


On Tue, 8/11/15, James Powell  wrote:

 Subject: [DNG] Excessive bouncing
 To: "dng@lists.dyne.org" 
 Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2015, 11:16 AM
 
 Not
 to complain, but this bouncing problem is really getting on
 my nerves. What exactly is causing
 this?
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 ___
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Re: [DNG] Packaging (was Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, possibly Mission Creep)

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 07:02:28 -0700
Go Linux  wrote:

> On Mon, 8/10/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

[snip]

> > * base install
> > * apt-get install xorg
> > * apt-get install xterm (if not installed by xorg)
> > * apt-get install Xfce (or whatever)
> > * apt-get install lightdm

[snip]

> Several years ago, I actually built up xfce (without the meta
> package) from a base install.  Then I found refracta which simplified
> my life as it was very close to what I wanted.  fsmithred has
> promised to build a devuan iso for the likes of me.  But he's not
> been seen around here in some time and the refracta forums haven't
> had much traffic lately . . . maybe because it's summer.  Once the
> beta appears I'm hoping he'll spin into action.  Doing this all from
> scratch would be a bit of a challenge for me . . . the years are
> beginning to take a toll . . .

Hi golinux,

I've known you for what, a year now? My impression is you're smart and
skilled enough to find it almost trivial to install base, then xorg,
then xterm, then a window manager, then lightdm. I've seen you do a
lot more challenging stuff than that, including making very inciteful
contributions to discussions on infrastructure. My impression of
you is that if you put your mind to it, you could install Arch or
Gentoo, and those really do take some concentration and resolution of
ambiguities. But anyway...

I'll admit I've met people who couldn't follow a five step apt-get
sequence, but you're about a million miles from that.

Well, anyway, you were speaking for those guys who can't follow a 5
step recipe, and that's legitimate. *If* it's decided that the base
install should be minimal, it would be pretty easy to make a
shellscript to do all X installation in one command. If the base
install included nCurses and Dialog, it could even be a no-argument
script that queried for everything:

* Do you want a Graphical User Interface (GUI) (Y/n)

* Do you want to boot straight to Graphics mode? (y/N)

* If booting straight to Graphics mode, require password? (Y/n)

* Which window mgr? (Xfce/LXDE/Openbox/Whatever/Other)

* If Other, please enter the WM name here ><

* Thank you. Press Enter to perform this work, press Ctrl+C to abort:


Of course, the prompts would need to be *much* more tailored to the
uninitiated user, who for instance, doesn't know what a Graphical User
Interface, a window manager are, or why he would or wouldn't want a
password.

The benefit of doing it this way is it's being performed on an already
installed system that's almost guaranteed to boot just fine.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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[DNG] Excessive bouncing

[James Powell]

Not to complain, but this bouncing problem is really getting on my nerves. What 
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Re: [DNG] Packaging (was Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, possibly Mission Creep)

[Go Linux]

On Mon, 8/10/15, Steve Litt  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Packaging (was  Systemd Shimss, Init scripts in packages, 
possibly Mission Creep)
 To: dng@lists.dyne.org
 Date: Monday, August 10, 2015, 6:32 PM
 
> If my assumption is correct, the only way making the base install tiny
> affects you is that you do the following instead of one big install:
> 
> * base install
> * apt-get install xorg
> * apt-get install xterm (if not installed by xorg)
> * apt-get install Xfce (or whatever)
> * apt-get install lightdm
> 
> 



Several years ago, I actually built up xfce (without the meta package) from a 
base install.  Then I found refracta which simplified my life as it was very 
close to what I wanted.  fsmithred has promised to build a devuan iso for the 
likes of me.  But he's not been seen around here in some time and the refracta 
forums haven't had much traffic lately . . . maybe because it's summer.  Once 
the beta appears I'm hoping he'll spin into action.  Doing this all from 
scratch would be a bit of a challenge for me . . . the years are beginning to 
take a toll . . .
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