Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 03:50:57AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote: > I recomend you to eat a pizza with Jaromil > :) How do you know I have not had a pizza with Jaromil already? HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Fri, 2015-09-11 at 22:34 +0200, aitor_czr wrote: > You are right Edward, i was thinking in the transposition matrix. > > > El 11/09/15 a las 19:32, Edward Bartolo escribió: > > > > > > > only square matrices can > > > have an inverse If a square matrix is singular, i.e. the determinant is zero, no inverse exists (a pseudoinverse and SVD exists though, see below). For non-square, and square, matrices you can always define a pseudo-inverse, (Moore-Penrose pseudoinverse), as well as calculate the Singular Value Decomposition (SVD). The SVD is an efficient way to calculate the pseudoinverse and least-squares fitting of data. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
I have a goog friend : Sherlock Holmes. On 12/09/15 08:58, KatolaZ wrote: On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 03:50:57AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote: >I recomend you to eat a pizza with Jaromil > :) How do you know I have not had a pizza with Jaromil already? HND KatolaZ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd
Hi Isaac, On 09/11/2015 09:30 PM, Isaac Dunham wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:23:38AM +0200, tilt! wrote: Unadressed remains the lifecycle of $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, >> specifically: [...] >> * When is $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR created? >> [...] Currently my best guess is that this should be performed everytime >> the user starts an X session (it's an X thing after all, right), >> but Xsession.d is executed as the user, not root. Changing into the >> user ID is a thing of the display manager, there's no general way >> to hook in. Remains PAM. Probably. > > PAM would probably work well. Work on such a PAM module was made ([1]) in Ubuntu. Development halted 2012-10-02, and the last security update was 2013-03-15. It has a few shortfalls (hardcoded basedir, uses $USER for rundir naming), and therefore could not be used as it is now immediately. If I were implementing it (note: I'm the sort of guy who doesn't use > PAM, or logind, or policykit...), I'd use a setuid helper that will > construct a path based on a fixed prefix, the user ID, and > optionally a six-character random string (ie, the "-n" option appends > _XX and calls mktemp). Same here, i don't like PAM because it tends to get a mess, and also it's not portable. I can't use Logind, because that is just what i want to avoid depending on. I don't like Policykit, because i don't want to write security policies in Javascript, and i also don't understand the nature and maintainance of the org.freedesktop.* namespace. I will think about this a bit more, but currently it converges towards a SUID helper and a separately configured directory for refcounts. > [...] Kind regards, T. Links: [1] Launchpad. pam-xdg-support. URL: https://launchpad.net/pam-xdg-support ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 06:57:04PM +, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Wow, we've gone from "I don't understand c strings" to "let me explain them > using matrices". > > To anyone else mortified by this thread: name any of the obviously > preferable languages for this job and I'll try my hand at porting to > that language. I can't guarantee I'll know exactly what I'm doing, > but I can guarantee that an entire class of potential bugs will > magically disappear in whatever I end up with. To pick an obscure one: Modula 3, a strongly statically typed language in which an operating system was once written. (Its a completely different language from Modula 2.) -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] About the issues on the devuan repositories
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 06:54:44AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > Hi all, > after the last days issues with devuan repositories, > i have deeply investigated what broke our amprolla merged repo. > > First issue: debian mirror auto geolocation > > Until some days ago we were using http://http.debian.net as auto > geolocation redirect for debian mirrors to be merged. Sadly those were > having issues, and then i've changed it pointing to the OVH mirror, and > then to the httpredir.debian.org mirrors. > > They seems to work, but amprolla wasn't yet able to work as expected, > so, tonight i have deeply investigated our issue... and i discovered a > change in the debian mirror structure. > > They were used to have both an InRelease file AND a Release ( with > Release.gpg ) as main indices for repositories. > > Amprolla was ignoring Release and Release.gpg files, and it was using > exclusively InRelease file, as it was signed and downloading 1 file > instead of 2 is more efficient. > > Apparently something is changed in debian, and now debian mirrors > doesn't have InRelease anymore, they instead have only Release and > Release.gpg files. > > For this reason, amprolla was assuming the debian repos were empty, and > then it was mergin the devuan repos with "nothing". > > I've just patched amprolla with a work around to solve this issue, > anyway, as the debian repos aren't so stable in structure as i was > expecting, a major rewrite of amprolla will be rescheduled to be > anticipate, and it will perform a full mirror instead of using only > redirects. > > This would say more bandwidth and disk space for us, but at least we can > be sure to not be affected from debian changes like in those days. At least, not to be shut down by the changes; amprolla might stll need to be changed if the Debian repository structure changes in order to get the most recent packages. I wonder how other Debian derivatives handle this? -- hendrik > > Thanks for your patience, in few hours the devuan repositories will be > up&running. > -- > > Franco (nextime) Lanza > Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy > SIP://c...@casa.nexlab.it > web: http://www.nexlab.net > paypal: https://paypal.me/nexlab > > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org > you can download my public key at: > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers > Key ID = D6132D50 > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 > --- > echo > 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq > | dc > --- > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
M3 was great. Maybe the language I like best among the compiled ones. For example, the specification is just fifty and a half pages long, and it has 31-bit unsigned integers instead of 32. But don't use it. It is dead. No toolchain update in quite a few years any more, and the book is out of print. (Yes, I have a copy and I am keeping it.) Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] About the issues on the devuan repositories
On 12/09/2015 15:22, Hendrik Boom wrote: > At least, not to be shut down by the changes; amprolla might stll > need to be changed if the Debian repository structure changes in > order to get the most recent packages. The structure didn't change, other sections of the archive still have the InRelease files (as they should). Most likely the ftpmaster team botched the 8.2 release process and nobody noticed because apt falls back to the detached sig version of the Release file. The only thing that has to be implemented in amprolla is falling back to Release+Release.gpg if InRelease is missing. Bye, -- Matteo Panella signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
Hendrik Boom writes: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 06:57:04PM +, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >> Wow, we've gone from "I don't understand c strings" to "let me explain them >> using matrices". >> >> To anyone else mortified by this thread: name any of the obviously >> preferable languages for this job and I'll try my hand at porting to >> that language. I can't guarantee I'll know exactly what I'm doing, >> but I can guarantee that an entire class of potential bugs will >> magically disappear in whatever I end up with. > > To pick an obscure one: Sorry for hijacking this posting but the one I was planning to reply to didn't show up on the list: How about another challenge, Mr Wilkes? "Try your hands at PHP" and create an entirely new 'class of real, ie not potential' programming errors with dreadful and seriously expensive consequences: SQL injection. That's what one gets when wrongly assuming that the tools are to blame for the errors the fools make when trying to use them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On 09/11/2015 08:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > [...] To anyone else mortified by this thread: name any of the obviously preferable languages for this job and I'll try my hand at porting to that language. I can't guarantee I'll know exactly what I'm doing, but I can guarantee that an entire class of potential bugs will magically disappear in whatever I end up with. Do it in LISP! It's perfect for list processing! :D Best regards, T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 03:42:47PM +0200, a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no wrote: > M3 was great. Maybe the language I like best among the compiled > ones. For example, the specification is just fifty and a half pages > long, and it has 31-bit unsigned integers instead of 32. I still use it. It's still a decent language, with features specific to systems implementation. > > But don't use it. It is dead. No toolchain update in quite a few > years any more, and the book is out of print. (Yes, I have a copy > and I am keeping it.) Not quite dead. The developers are currently putting together the pieces for the next major release. It will have a code generator that generates C as well as th eusual native code generators. > > Arnt But now, for something completely different. Try OCaml. There's a lot of networking software written in it, as it happens, including, IIRC, the entire OCaml website. The language is 20 years mature. I say mature rather than old, because it hasn't been sitting still all those years. It's still under active design aand development. The bindings for various Unixy system libraries are done via a C interface. It can be tricky for a beginner to implement a new one. But it allready has tools for reading ane writing files, directories, etc. Which might be what you need? There is a steep learning curve. And the language steald one bit out of every integer (so you end up with 31-bit integers and 63-bit integers on what would otherwise be 32 and 64 bit integers on 32 and 64-bit machines. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 05:30:23PM +0200, tilt! wrote: > On 09/11/2015 08:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > [...] > >To anyone else mortified by this thread: name any of the obviously > >preferable languages for this job and I'll try my hand at porting to > >that language. I can't guarantee I'll know exactly what I'm doing, > >but I can guarantee that an entire class of potential bugs will > >magically disappear in whatever I end up with. > > Do it in LISP! It's perfect for list processing! :D So, actually is OCaml. But OCaml is statically typed. Ah yes. There's a Lisp dialect, Racket, with a version called Typed Racket. Thats Scheme with static types. -- hendrik > > Best regards, > T. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 04:04:14PM +, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Hi tilt!Is this a serious response? I ask because the other > candidates-- an obscure language and a dead language-- were not. Programming language popularity is more a matter of fashion than technical excellence. Modula 3 isn't dead. Moribund, maybe, but not dead. And it easily beats a number of madly popular languages for systems programming. Its one of the few languages I've used in which large programs often (but certainly not always) run correctly the first time they get through the compiler. There is a .deb for Modula 3 available for download, but it's not part of Debian as far as I know. Ocaml is very much alive. It originated in the formal verification and proof-checking community, which very much wants to avoid accepting invalid formal proofs because of program bugs. It is now suitable for a variety of applications. It is maintained by its users, as is much free software, and mostly by Jane Street. They are some kind of financial services company, and they seem to consider that it gives them enough of a competitive edge that they actively work on its maintenance. They actively recruit Lisp and OCaml programmers. For systems work, there are bindins available to a lot of the usual C libraries, and it's normal to make more. OCaml is available in Debian and willl be available in Devuan again when the repositories are fixed. Of the Lisp dialects, I'd recommend implementations of Scheme. Here things get a bit messy. There are a lot of them, and each of them differs significantly in terms of what extra features they provided above and beyond the standard. If you look at Scheme, I'd suggest: * Racket, which is a serious language that has been used, for example, to implement a web server. * Guile, which is the official scripting extension language for GNU, * Gambit, which is compiled to C, and has extensions to make interfacing with C easy. Racket is available in Debian too, and I'd be surprised if it depended on systemd. Guile is probably as available, because it is a GNU project. It is made to be linked with C code, so you can write your program in Scheme while the dirty bits are offloaded to C. > > If so tell me which dialect to use. > -Jonathan Of these, I think Modula 3 is techincally most suited to the task, and OCaml is most likely to be compatibly avilabl into the future. Scheme is a mature language with excellent survivablility, but it changes a lot, and comes in too many dialects. It may not be what you want. But it is a foundatonal language, and one you should be familiar with no matter what language you actually use. Racket is probably the easiest dialect to get into, because there are some excellent introductory textbooks. -- hendrik > > > > > On Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:30 AM, tilt! wrote: > > > On 09/11/2015 08:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > [...] > > To anyone else mortified by this thread: name any of the obviously > > preferable languages for this job and I'll try my hand at porting to > > that language. I can't guarantee I'll know exactly what I'm doing, > > but I can guarantee that an entire class of potential bugs will > > magically disappear in whatever I end up with. > > Do it in LISP! It's perfect for list processing! :D > > Best regards, > T. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
Hi Jonathan, On 09/12/2015 06:04 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Hi tilt! Is this a serious response? I ask because the other candidates -- an obscure language and a dead language-- were not. If so tell me which dialect to use. No, it's *not* a serious response. Had i been serious, i had requested Guile. ;-) Best regards, T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
Guile it is. Just so we're clear-- I am assuming you understand why I want to do this, and that you will defend the choice of language against bike-shedders and Socratic bombers. (Though of course you don't have to defend my actual code.) If both those assumptions are true then I'll get started. -Jonathan On Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:43 PM, tilt! wrote: Hi Jonathan, On 09/12/2015 06:04 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Hi tilt! > Is this a serious response? I ask because the other candidates > -- an obscure language and a dead language-- were not. > > If so tell me which dialect to use. No, it's *not* a serious response. Had i been serious, i had requested Guile. ;-) Best regards, T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
Hi Jonathan, no please! I was kidding, as indicated by smileys interleaved with my postings! :-D BTW if you have the time to do it, and if you think it brings you something, why should a random guy from the internet like i be the one who gives thumbs up or down? Should it be your serious intention to present a replacement for the existing "netman" backend executable that is completely written in a language i came up with on a whim, by Googeling for LISP dialects, chances are that it will not be considered. In any case, Ennius writes: Otio qui nescit uti plus negoti habet quam cum est negotium in negotio. He who does not know how to use leisure has more of work than when there is work in work. Best regards, T. On 09/12/2015 07:39 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Guile it is. Just so we're clear-- I am assuming you understand why I want to do > this, and that you will defend the choice of language against > bike-shedders and Socratic bombers. (Though of course you don't have > to defend my actual code.) If both those assumptions are true then > I'll get started. > -Jonathan > On Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:43 PM, tilt! wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > On 09/12/2015 06:04 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > Hi tilt! > > Is this a serious response? I ask because the other candidates > > -- an obscure language and a dead language-- were not. > > > > If so tell me which dialect to use. > > No, it's *not* a serious response. Had i been serious, i had > requested Guile. ;-) > > Best regards, > T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd
Hi, On 09/12/2015 12:52 PM, tilt! wrote: > [...] > I will think about this a bit more, but currently it converges > towards a SUID helper and a separately configured directory for > refcounts. Here's my shot at it: https://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat It uses a setuid-bit-executable that creates a per-user directory if neccessary. Prefix and directory name generators and directory creation procedure are Bourne scripts in "/etc/xdg-compat". It hooks into the Xsession at #61. It does not do lifecycle management (yet), but it deletes all rundirs at shutdown. I successfully tested it on two installations: ~$ ls $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR dconf gvfs ~$ I would appreciate your opinions on it, and of course i will include a list of contributors soon; i just would not like to imply an endorsement while you actually think it sucks. ;-) Kind regards, T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 08:38:40PM +, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > It depends completely on the random guy. :) > If you were a knowledgeable advocate of Guile and saw the same risks of > "winging it" with C strings, then there'd now be at least two devs with a > vested interest in a port of the relevant functionality. All the languages I mentioned -- Modula 3, OCaml, and Guile (as a Scheme dialect that interfaces well with C) would be better than C if your purpose is a lot of string handling. OCaml and Guile are already present in Debian, so they have a natural advantage. OCaml is stically types, which catches bugs fast Guile is a GNU language, which may have some political advantages. -- hendrik > > Instead, I agree with the essence of your response. > > -Jonathan > > > > > On Saturday, September 12, 2015 2:26 PM, tilt! wrote: > > > Hi Jonathan, > > no please! I was kidding, as indicated by smileys interleaved with my > postings! :-D > > BTW if you have the time to do it, and if you think it brings you > something, why should a random guy from the internet like i be the one > who gives thumbs up or down? > > Should it be your serious intention to present a replacement for the > existing "netman" backend executable that is completely written in a > language i came up with on a whim, by Googeling for LISP dialects, > chances are that it will not be considered. > > In any case, Ennius writes: > > Otio qui nescit uti > plus negoti habet quam cum est negotium in negotio. > > He who does not know how to use leisure > has more of work than when there is work in work. > > Best regards, > T. > > On 09/12/2015 07:39 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > Guile it is. > > Just so we're clear-- I am assuming you understand why I want to do > > this, and that you will defend the choice of language against > > bike-shedders and Socratic bombers. (Though of course you don't have > > to defend my actual code.) If both those assumptions are true then > > I'll get started. > > -Jonathan > > On Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:43 PM, tilt! wrote: > > Hi Jonathan, > > > > On 09/12/2015 06:04 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > Hi tilt! > > > Is this a serious response? I ask because the other candidates > > > -- an obscure language and a dead language-- were not. > > > > > > If so tell me which dialect to use. > > > > No, it's *not* a serious response. Had i been serious, i had > > requested Guile. ;-) > > > > Best regards, > > T. > > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debugging netman auto-connect.
It was not Pascal the successor of Modula? El 12/09/15 a las 22:38, Hendrik Boom escribió: Modula 3 isn't dead. Moribund, maybe, but not dead. And it easily beats a number of madly popular languages for systems programming. Its one of the few languages I've used in which large programs often (but certainly not always) run correctly the first time they get through the compiler. There is a .deb for Modula 3 available for download, but it's not part of Debian as far as I know. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd
On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 10:32:13PM +0200, tilt! wrote: > Hi, > > On 09/12/2015 12:52 PM, tilt! wrote: > > [...] > > I will think about this a bit more, but currently it converges > > towards a SUID helper and a separately configured directory for > > refcounts. > > Here's my shot at it: > >https://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat $ git clone https://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat Cloning into 'xdg-compat'... fatal: repository 'https://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat/' not found newbook:~/src$ git clone git://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat Cloning into 'xdg-compat'... fatal: unable to connect to git.devuan.org: git.devuan.org[0: 78.26.97.141]: errno=Operation timed out And a web browser redirects to a login page. Similar with the git url. > I would appreciate your opinions on it, and of course i will > include a list of contributors soon; i just would not like > to imply an endorsement while you actually think it sucks. ;-) Thanks. ;-) One detail I'm not sure if you implemented: I suggested that default be to create .../$UID if needed, but you can pass "-n" to create a new session. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Programming languages for netman?
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:49:57AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote: > It was not Pascal the successor of Modula? Pascal cne after Algol W. Modula came after Pascal. Modula 2 came after Modula. Oberon came after Modula 2. All these languages were designed by Niklaus Wirth. Modula 3 was creted by different people who asked Wirth if they could use the Modula name. They produced a statically typed, object-oriented, garbage collected language in which your programs didn't have to use objects, didn't have to use the garbage collector, and could even explicitly violate the type constraints (thus unlike Java in all three respects). Storage managemend outside the garbage collector and explicit type violations were considered UNSAFE, and could only be used in modules that were themselves marked as UNSAFE. So you would know how far the compiler's guarantee of run-time safety could be expected to go. > > El 12/09/15 a las 22:38, Hendrik Boom escribió: > > >Modula 3 isn't dead. Moribund, maybe, but not dead. And it easily > >beats a number of madly popular languages for systems programming. > >Its one of the few languages I've used in which large programs often > >(but certainly not always) run correctly the first time they get through > >the compiler. > > > >There is a .deb for Modula 3 available for download, but it's not part > >of Debian as far as I know. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Programming languages for netman?
> On September 12, 2015 at 10:36 PM Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:49:57AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote: > > It was not Pascal the successor of Modula? > > Pascal cne after Algol W. Modula came after Pascal. Modula 2 came > after Modula. Oberon came after Modula 2. All these languages were > designed by Niklaus Wirth. Niklaus Wirth has lamented that, whereas Europeans pronounce his name correctly (Ni-klows Virt), Americans invariably mangle it into (Nick-les Worth). Which is to say that Europeans call him by name, but Americans call him by value. Sorry, couldn't help myself :-) Peter Olson ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
