[DNG] How to upgrade Devuan

[Rodrigo Severo]

Hi,


Yesterday I put my first Devuan server on real production. It's a jessie.

I wonder how can I upgrade it to ascii. Should I just change the jessie's
in my /etc/apt/sources.list to ascii and "apt update; apt dist-upgrade"?


Regards,

Rodrigo Severo
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Jessie -> ASCII successful upgrade reports

[Luke Diamand]

On 2017-12-23 23:46, Don Wright wrote:
> Might as well start a thread for those of us who /didn't/ have significant
> issues upgrading from Devuan Jessie to ASCII as our part of the sprint, just
> to provide some balance to the problem-oriented bug database and other
> reports. I'll reply separately with my own narrative.

I think I've upgraded, seemed fine. Ethernet only x86 intel desktop.

I've only fairly recently installed Devuan so it's possible it was
always on Ascii?

Works well though!

Luke
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 23:02:44 +0100
Harald Arnesen  wrote:

> Steve Litt [2018-01-03 22:32]:
> 
> > Yes. It's different from lxterminal, which is an advantage. IMHO,
> > the more terminal emulator programs you have, the better. So:  
> 
> Why, if they are all the same?

I never meant to imply they are identical; merely that I can't rate one
above the other.

A Chrysler Town and Country minivan and a Dodge Charger cost
approximately the same, and are both quality cars. I couldn't say which
one is better. But what I *can* say is that if you have four kids and
want to transport them in style, you get the Chrysler Town and Country.
If you're single and want to impress members of the opposite sex, or
you want to feel younger, or you want driving to be fun, you buy the
Dodge Charger.

If you have one of each in your garage, you drive your kids around in
style, and then at night go out on dates in style.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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[DNG] Ascii clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme (with OB)

[golinux]

Ascii clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme (with OB)


With most generous assistance/feedback from fsmithred and J. Fahrner, I 
think the ascii clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme for openbox has been 
straightened out.  Attached are screenies of the Xfce and openbox 
desktops with some open applications as well as a .deb for proper 
installation (thanks to fsr).


https://transfer.sh/NuEAf/ascii-xfce-DE.png

https://transfer.sh/JUQJp/ascii-OB-theme.png

https://transfer.sh/RMGzg/clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme_7.0.1-1+devuan2.0_all%20%282%29.deb

If you run into problems, ping me.  Enjoy!

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Jamey Fletcher]

> Steve Litt [2018-01-03 22:32]:

>> Yes. It's different from lxterminal, which is an advantage. IMHO, the
>> more terminal emulator programs you have, the better. So:

> Why, if they are all the same?

Well, they're not all the same.  I just found mention of one that has many
features I would dearly love, though unfortunately it's died:  finalterm

http://worldwidemann.com/final-term-a-modern-terminal-emulator/

Still:  http://worldwidemann.com/finally-terminated/

There is a project called finalterm-reborn, but I don't have it in my
gentoo repos :(

Still, the ability to collapse and expand command output would be rather
nice...

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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Harald Arnesen]

Steve Litt [2018-01-03 22:32]:

> Yes. It's different from lxterminal, which is an advantage. IMHO, the
> more terminal emulator programs you have, the better. So:

Why, if they are all the same?
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 17:22:20 +0100
"J. Fahrner"  wrote:

> Am 2018-01-03 16:21, schrieb Steve Litt:
> 
> > Irrwahn, thanks for turning me on to Sakura. I'll be using it a lot
> > in the future.
> > 
> > Sakura is a great terminal emulator with abyssmal documentation.  
> 
> Any advantages over lxterminal?

Yes. It's different from lxterminal, which is an advantage. IMHO, the
more terminal emulator programs you have, the better. So:

lxterminal + Sakura > lxterminal

lxterminal + Sakura > Sakura

I have no opinion as to whether lxterminal alone is better than Sakura
alone. They're both excellent (as is xfce4-terminal). 

I would say that a keyboard-centric type of person might gravitate
toward Sakura because of the many changes that can be made with obvious
hotkeys. Also, the person wanting to maximize screen real estate might
like Sakura without tabs and without a scrollbar.

People liking mice and/or a menu driven interface will probably be more
attracted to lxterminal or xfce4-terminal. For this reason I would make
lxterminal or xfce4-terminal the default terminal on a Linux
distribution.

By the way, I would rate any of the three terminals discussed above as
superior to xterm, aterm, and Suckless st. I'd also rate them above
gnome-terminal and kterm because they don't drag in huge monolithic
entanglements (perhaps that might be questionable on xfce4-terminal ---
I'll leave that to the reader's decision).
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-01-03 16:21, schrieb Steve Litt:


Irrwahn, thanks for turning me on to Sakura. I'll be using it a lot in
the future.

Sakura is a great terminal emulator with abyssmal documentation.


Any advantages over lxterminal?

Jochen

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Re: [DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Irrwahn]

Steve Litt wrote on 03.01.2018 16:21:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 17:13:50 +0100
> Irrwahn  wrote:
> 
>> In case you become interested in a replacement with a similar 
>> feature set, yet still small-ish footprint and reasonable list 
>> of dependencies: I can recommend sakura! I've been using it for 
>> years now 
> 
> Irrwahn, thanks for turning me on to Sakura. I'll be using it a lot in
> the future.

You're welcome. ;o)

> Sakura is a great terminal emulator with abyssmal documentation. None
> of its features or operations are discoverable until you learn that its
> configuration is contained in ~/.config/sakura/sakura.conf, and even
> then you must figure out by trial and error, by reading the source, or
> by verbal history passed from father to son, that every hotkey mentioned
> must be used in conjunction with the Shift+Ctrl combination.
> 
> Next step is to look inside sakura.c, at the #define statements,
> particularly the ones that /DEFAULT_.*_ACCELERATOR/. Compare those
> defaults the accelerator declarations in sakura.conf as it ships from
> the factory, and you find that the accelerators are the
[...]

Well, a good portion of the info you provide (in the part I snipped)
is contained, or at least pointed to, in the sakura man-page. Though 
I have to admit its author could have been a bit more verbose about
some aspects. Otherwise I have to agree with your sentiment: Since 
I've been using it, I never felt the need to look for alternatives.

Best regards
Urban

-- 
Sapere aude!
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Re: [DNG] R.I.P ROXterm

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:57:47 -0500
Hendrik Boom  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 10:38:45AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> > 
> >   Roxterm's developer gave up due to the complexities of adapting/
> > working around GTK3 features:

[snip]

> > So, unless anyone else wants to take this over (seems unlikely),
> > I'll soon start doing things like getting it removed from Debian.
> > 
> > 
> > Alessandro  
> 
> This looks pretty definitive.  R.I.P Roxterm.
> And pretty damning against GTK development.

Which isn't surprising. GTk is part of the
Redhat/FreeDesktop.Org/Systemd constellation, and from what I hear is
being welded tighter and tighter to Gnome every day.

It's all part of the same syndrome: Unpaid Shadetree Programmers and
DIY experts need not apply.

Fortunately, there are alternatives.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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[DNG] Sakura: was ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Steve Litt]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 17:13:50 +0100
Irrwahn  wrote:

> In case you become interested in a replacement with a similar 
> feature set, yet still small-ish footprint and reasonable list 
> of dependencies: I can recommend sakura! I've been using it for 
> years now 

Irrwahn, thanks for turning me on to Sakura. I'll be using it a lot in
the future.

Sakura is a great terminal emulator with abyssmal documentation. None
of its features or operations are discoverable until you learn that its
configuration is contained in ~/.config/sakura/sakura.conf, and even
then you must figure out by trial and error, by reading the source, or
by verbal history passed from father to son, that every hotkey mentioned
must be used in conjunction with the Shift+Ctrl combination.

Next step is to look inside sakura.c, at the #define statements,
particularly the ones that /DEFAULT_.*_ACCELERATOR/. Compare those
defaults the accelerator declarations in sakura.conf as it ships from
the factory, and you find that the accelerators are the
Ctrl/Alt/Shift/Windows key combos that are joined to the letter in the
corresponding letter key, identified bitwise:

Accel   ModKey
1   Shift
2   Caplocks (warning: Obvious side effects)
4   Ctrl
8   Alt
64  WindowsKey

Naturally, the preceding can be or'ed to produce multiple key
accelerators. 

Once armed with these secret handshakes, Sakura's capabilities quickly
reveal themselves:

* You can define several foreground/background/cursor color combos,
  each with its own hotkey. These combos can be used from the command
  prompt with the --colorset option. For people like me who use
  different color combos to warn of root terminals or terminals ssh'ed
  to other computers, this is spectacular.

* You can change the font within sakura.conf.

* You can change the font size on the fly with a hotkey.

* You can handle tabs with hotkeys

* You can toggle existence of schrollbars with a hotkey.

Sakura's an excellent terminal emulator with terrible documentation,
but armed with this email you can immediately use it productively.
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive
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[DNG] R.I.P ROXterm

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Jan 03, 2018 at 10:38:45AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> 
>   Roxterm's developer gave up due to the complexities of adapting/ working
> around GTK3 features:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/roxterm/discussion/422638/thread/60da6975/?limit=25#46a9
> 
>  Tony Houghton - 2016-05-25
> 
> I'm afraid the time has come to put ROXTerm to sleep. I've had a look over
> the code and latest GTK API and I'm pretty sure there is no quick fix for bug
> #125, in fact there is even more code relying on the old geometry than I
> realised, and I could end up messing around with it for months trying to get
> all the sizing features right. The only satisfactory solution would be a
> major rewrite, which isn't really justified by whatever distinctive features
> ROXTerm offers over anything else that people (including myself) are relying
> on. With such a big bug in the way it doesn't seem worth tackling the other
> outstanding issues. Apologies to all the people who have taken time to report
> and discuss them.
> 
> There is one potential killer feature I can think of, and that's to integrate
> the functionality of something like tmux or screen with remote capability,
> but I think that would require at least major support from a reworked vte,
> and I think it's over-ambitious for me.
> 
> So, unless anyone else wants to take this over (seems unlikely), I'll soon
> start doing things like getting it removed from Debian.
> 
> 
> Alessandro

This looks pretty definitive.  R.I.P Roxterm.
And pretty damning against GTK development.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] ROXterm flickers in ascii

[Alessandro Selli]

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 at 23:09:30 +0100
Alessandro Selli  wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 at 18:03:21 +0100
> Irrwahn  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> According to:
>> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=roxterm=names=all=all
>> there are roxterm packages in Debian Jessie and Sid, but I have no 
>> clue why it was dropped from Stretch. Situations like this to me 
>> smell like negligent package maintenance,  
>
>   Here it says why:
>
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/roxterm/rss
>
> Removed 3.3.2-1 from unstable
>
> --- Reason ---
> ROM; Upstream discontinued; has RC bug
> --

  Roxterm's developer gave up due to the complexities of adapting/ working
around GTK3 features:

https://sourceforge.net/p/roxterm/discussion/422638/thread/60da6975/?limit=25#46a9

 Tony Houghton - 2016-05-25

I'm afraid the time has come to put ROXTerm to sleep. I've had a look over
the code and latest GTK API and I'm pretty sure there is no quick fix for bug
#125, in fact there is even more code relying on the old geometry than I
realised, and I could end up messing around with it for months trying to get
all the sizing features right. The only satisfactory solution would be a
major rewrite, which isn't really justified by whatever distinctive features
ROXTerm offers over anything else that people (including myself) are relying
on. With such a big bug in the way it doesn't seem worth tackling the other
outstanding issues. Apologies to all the people who have taken time to report
and discuss them.

There is one potential killer feature I can think of, and that's to integrate
the functionality of something like tmux or screen with remote capability,
but I think that would require at least major support from a reworked vte,
and I think it's over-ambitious for me.

So, unless anyone else wants to take this over (seems unlikely), I'll soon
start doing things like getting it removed from Debian.


Alessandro

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