Re: [DNG] How to deploy an init.d script to Devuan 2.0 (ASCII)
Le 11/04/2019 à 11:29, Steffen Dettmer via Dng a écrit : On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 6:54 PM Steffen Dettmer wrote: /etc/rc2.d/S03ccucvm_startup_script (pointing to ../init.d/ccucvm_startup_script), [...] my script is not executed. I investigated further and I noticed that there are hidden files like "/etc/init.d/.depend-start" that seem to be used instead of the rc?.d/S?? links. I'm still looking for its documentation, but reading the script /etc/init.d/rc fortunately revealed a simple workaround: touch /etc/init.d/.legacy-bootordering I have no clue why the main mechanism is defined in hidden files, but I think it makes no sense to file a bug? Hi Steffen. I didn't do this for a while, but, AFAIR, the method is the following: First write the dependencies in the form of comments at the top of your script. You can look how it is done in other init scripts as an inspiration. Then "install" your script using the command update-rc.d; it should create the symbolic links and take care of everything else necessary, if there is. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
Le 12/04/2019 à 17:24, Hendrik Boom a écrit : On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: On Friday 12 April 2019 at 00:53:40, Steve Litt wrote: I suggest we pass the following resolution: === At Devuan we prioritize benefits to individual users over benefits to corporations. Within the overarching umbrella of delivering sans-systemd GNU/Linux systems, we seek to make life fun for developers, caretakers, and all other contributors. === Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote "freedom of init choice"? The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it appears to say that one could choose systemd. We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can use Debian with our blessing. If I can add my 2 cents, I would say that the absenceof init choice is the emerged part of systemd. Systemd is not an init system, it is a massive threat to freedom all over the Linux OS. I think we all agree on this in the Devuan community, and this might be advertised. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 12/4/19 23:20, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: So you only have to endure me another 18 days. 0 days, in my case, because I won't waste more time reading your messages. Good luck :) Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 01:51:39AM +0200, Jaromil wrote: Following common understanding with other caretakers and parallel to the work on the conference documentation, I have started this website, soon to be linked by Devuan's official domain, served under TLS and completed with a list of willing partners as datacenterlight, your company and whoever will like: https://devuan.pro What does devuan.pro have to do with the idea of good software? ... I'd suggest to not make devuan.pro part of devuan.org: I simply want decent software. I leave the idea of liberating the whole world, dancing, singing, freeing myself from "mental slavery" (I swear the latter is my personal favorite!) to those having the time to do that. And I wish them all good luck, and lots of fun. I mean it. In the meantime - without joining your respectable efforts - I try to become a better man, stop caring about things I know are useless to care about, keep my house tidy, and thus - maybe - become a better person. And in between all that I try using decent software - that won't be easy: to succeed in it I thought devuan is a good start. But the idea of getting rid of my mental slavery does not help me in all these efforts. Does that make sense to anyone on this list? Best Regards, Wolfgang PS: Great Tacitus quote at the end of devuan.pro: Thanks for mentioning it. -- "When I see a giant crane passing on a flatbed truck, I pause in awe and reverence, as one would for a church procession. [ ... ] If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts." Camille Paglia: "Sexual Personae" p.38 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] How to deploy an init.d script to Devuan 2.0 (ASCII)
On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 6:54 PM Steffen Dettmer wrote: > /etc/rc2.d/S03ccucvm_startup_script > >(pointing to ../init.d/ccucvm_startup_script), > > [...] my script is not executed. I investigated further and I noticed that there are hidden files like "/etc/init.d/.depend-start" that seem to be used instead of the rc?.d/S?? links. I'm still looking for its documentation, but reading the script /etc/init.d/rc fortunately revealed a simple workaround: touch /etc/init.d/.legacy-bootordering I have no clue why the main mechanism is defined in hidden files, but I think it makes no sense to file a bug? Steffen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] How to deploy an init.d script to Devuan 2.0 (ASCII)
Hi, At work I'm playing with Devuan in a VM supposed to replace embedded systems. These systems have special proprietary software which is deployed using a proprietary package manager, which unfortunately does not support executing scripts (such as postinstall). To start the proprietary software, part of its proprietary package is an init.d script. I added /etc/init.d/ccucvm_startup_script and a symlink /etc/rc2.d/S03ccucvm_startup_script (pointing to ../init.d/ccucvm_startup_script), but when I reboot afterwards, I reach runlevel 2 without the script was ran. So my script is not executed. If open a remote shell and execute "update-rc.d ccucvm_startup_script defaults", after a reboot it works fine! Unfortunately I cannot run it automatically when installing, due no missing postinstall script support. What do I need to pack into my package to make my startup script work? I try to strace -f -o out update-rc.d ccucvm_startup_script defaults I saw that insserv is executed, that files and symlinks are checked, but I don't see what it does to make it work, I don't see what it updates to make the script work. I don't find any related errors in /var/log, but I don't know how to enable some tracing / error logging or such. How do I troubleshot init.d starting problems? (Of course I googled first and read the manual and spent some hours already, but for some reason I fail to solve my problem, and its a pity for my prototype because nothing works just because it won't get started) Does anyone have an idea what I could do? Where I could look? Any help appreciated! Regards, Steffen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 2019-04-12 16:27, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 18:33:18 +0300, Lars wrote in message : On 4/12/19 6:24 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: [snip] > The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it > appears to say that one could choose systemd. > > We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing > alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can > use Debian with our blessing. +1 ..we could add to that blessing, that "Debian is our back-up plan in case we are wrong on the merits or perils of systemd, and we can be Debian's back-up plan when they learn enough on the merits and perils of systemd to make a properly informed decision on what to do. ;o)" The misrepresentation of systemd as an init system adds to that confusion. ...and explaining that scornful fact in a scornless way, adds to the challenge. Maybe compare "the way Linux came out of Unix and Minix, to the way systemd came out of GNU/Linux as an OS"? What we need is less talk and more action. All this wishful thinking is a waste of everyone's time and attention. My .02 . . . golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 18:33:18 +0300, Lars wrote in message : > On 4/12/19 6:24 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > [snip] > > The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it > > appears to say that one could choose systemd. > > > > We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing > > alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can > > use Debian with our blessing. > > +1 ..we could add to that blessing, that "Debian is our back-up plan in case we are wrong on the merits or perils of systemd, and we can be Debian's back-up plan when they learn enough on the merits and perils of systemd to make a properly informed decision on what to do. ;o)" > The misrepresentation of systemd as an init system adds to that > confusion. ...and explaining that scornful fact in a scornless way, adds to the challenge. Maybe compare "the way Linux came out of Unix and Minix, to the way systemd came out of GNU/Linux as an OS"? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 12-04-19 12:15, Svante Signell via Dng wrote: > On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 23:52 +0200, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: >> On 11-04-19 23:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: Have I missed something? I want Katolaz back. Who is CenturionDan? And why does he have that much power? >>> I am CenturionDan. I don't have any power over Devuan, and am only a >>> long time volunteer and contributor to this project. >>> >> >> >> This is really too childish to be true. >> >> As of 30 April I will end the use of Devuan, the mirror at >> smallinnovations.nl and my membership of this list. > Good for you, and the Devuan project. Having such an attitude does not > contribute to Devuan. > Sure. But do not worry I just need time to move my systems back to Debian. So you only have to endure me another 18 days. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan.pro works now.
On 12/4/19 21:45, Hendrik Boom wrote: Seems to work now. Thanks to whoever did it. -- hendrik Yes, i was getting the same "Your connection is not secure" message, but now the website works :) Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] devuan.pro works now.
On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 09:35:35PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 01:51:39AM +0200, Jaromil wrote: ... > > > > Following common understanding with other caretakers and parallel to > > the work on the conference documentation, I have started this website, > > soon to be linked by Devuan's official domain, served under TLS and > > completed with a list of willing partners as datacenterlight, your > > company and whoever will like: https://devuan.pro > > As a starter for corporate respectability, please make sure your > certificates are in order. Firefox tells me: > > Your connection is not secure > > The owner of devuan.pro has configured their website improperly. To > protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected > to this website. Seems to work now. Thanks to whoever did it. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 06:09:46PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 11:24:39AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > > Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote > > > "freedom of init choice"? > > > > The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it appears > > to say that one could choose systemd. > > > > We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing > > alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can > > use Debian with our blessing. > > I think it could be good to not only leave vestigial systemd support in, but > also make both code paths working. This would create nice upstreamable > patches, and dispel any views of being hostile. That would be good, but I doubt we have the resources to do that. For one thing, the package dependencies seem to be different with and without systemd, and the package manager might end up having to deal with package dependencies that are present or absent depending on the presence of other packages. I'm not sure there are any efficient agorithms to resolve the resulting dependency tangle. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 11:24:39AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote > > "freedom of init choice"? > > The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it appears > to say that one could choose systemd. > > We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing > alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can > use Debian with our blessing. I think it could be good to not only leave vestigial systemd support in, but also make both code paths working. This would create nice upstreamable patches, and dispel any views of being hostile. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8" ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs? ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 4/12/19 6:24 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: [snip] > The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it appears > to say that one could choose systemd. > > We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing > alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can > use Debian with our blessing. +1 The misrepresentation of systemd as an init system adds to that confusion. /Lars ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > On Friday 12 April 2019 at 00:53:40, Steve Litt wrote: > > > I suggest we pass the following resolution: > > > > === > > At Devuan we prioritize benefits to individual users over benefits to > > corporations. Within the overarching umbrella of delivering > > sans-systemd GNU/Linux systems, we seek to make life fun for > > developers, caretakers, and all other contributors. > > === > > Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote > "freedom of init choice"? The problem with the phrase "freedom of init choice" is that it appears to say that one could choose systemd. We need to be clear that we are promoting freedom by providing alternatives to systemd, and that users that choose systemd can use Debian with our blessing. Otherwise trolls will have a valid point. > > I'nm not suggesting that we should include systemd in what Devuan provides > (!), but I just think the phrase "freedom of choice" is a more positive and > friendly message for people to see and think "yes, I like that project", > rather than simply saying "no systemd". And we should work towards "freedom of choice" more generally, not just in init systems. -- hendrik > > Functionally they come down to the same thing, but I think a positive phrase > is better than a negative one. > > > Antony. > > -- > Atheism is a non-prophet-making organisation. > >Please reply to the list; > please *don't* CC me. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
Il giorno venerdì 12/04/2019 10:41:53 +0200 Antony Stone ha scritto: > On Friday 12 April 2019 at 00:53:40, Steve Litt wrote: > > > I suggest we pass the following resolution: > > [cut] > Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote > "freedom of init choice"? [cut] > Functionally they come down to the same thing, but I think a positive phrase > is better than a negative one. Hi that's what I suggest, partly agreeing with Antony (I suggest using both, positive first and negative later but explaining) and also thinking it should be better to emphatize more the "human", "social" and "freedom" aspects: At Devuan we favor the advantages for individual users and communities of people, over economic benefits for corporations. We seek to make life fun for all users, developers, caretakers and contributors, promoting freedom of init choice within the overarching umbrella of delivering systemd-free GNU/Linux systems in order to preserve simplicity, modularity and interoperability. === Regards -- al3xu5 Say NO to copyright, patents, trademarks and any industrial design restrictions. Public GPG/PGP key block ID: 4096 bit RSA key 69C5977BF94CFE23 Fingerprint: 59C6 9DC7 CD4B CF2F A190 E3DE 69C5 977B F94C FE23 pgp9SrZ35sqPL.pgp Description: Firma digitale OpenPGP ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Fwd: Re: [devuan-dev] request of resignation of CenturionDan from caretaking]
> On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 20:47 +0200, Jaromil wrote: > > dear devs > > > > for having caused the distress of trust within the caretakers group > > beyond our agreed liabilities (see licensing conditions of Devuan) and > > having caused the (hopefully temporary) resignation of one caretaker > > and lead developer (Katolaz), for having missed to fulfill many > > declared tasks in the past year and having polluted our meetings with > > unfulfilling rants of sorts, I kindly ask CenturionDan to consider his > > own resignation from the caretakers, let alone his presence as > > co-founder of Devuan which isn't really historically true. If he does > > not agree then I kindly ask all caretakers to consider a vote where we > > all agree upon a forced expulsion. > > > > Said that, I just hope Dan has the decency to get the hell out. > > Dear Jaromil, > > You are really exaggerating this issue, all for no good. I've been present > from the early days of Devuan, and Dan was very much instrumental in creating > the first Devuan release: jessie. I've been contributing since the beginning > and have(had) a build daemon for package builds. Later on Katolaz (and others) > came in and contributed majorly, especially for the ASCII release. The April > fool joke by Katolaz was maybe not the best stunt but let's get on with > Devuan, and don't force him or Dan to resign, please! I don't know about the > private emails sent, but reading the dng list the spammer was not Dan it was > Mike Bird, a person unknown to contributing to Devuan... > > The number of contributors to Devuan is very small, and with this kind of > accusations, the number will decrease further, making Devuan extinct. Is that > your goal? Katolaz and CenturionDan, please continue with your work on Devuan. You should all be able to agree and make sensible decicions in the very small caretakers group. Behave as grown-ups, please. On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 23:12 +0200, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > On 11-04-19 22:33, Svante Signell via Dng wrote: > > Forwarding this mail to DNG too. I think this is relevant to the discussion. > Nope, not relevant. The message sounds too much as our old troll Mike USA . Yes, it is relevant. You are the troll here. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Thu, 2019-04-11 at 23:52 +0200, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > On 11-04-19 23:38, Daniel Reurich wrote: > > > Have I missed something? I want Katolaz back. > > > Who is CenturionDan? And why does he have that much power? > > I am CenturionDan. I don't have any power over Devuan, and am only a > > long time volunteer and contributor to this project. > > > > > This is really too childish to be true. > > As of 30 April I will end the use of Devuan, the mirror at > smallinnovations.nl and my membership of this list. Good for you, and the Devuan project. Having such an attitude does not contribute to Devuan. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On 2019-04-12 07:26, Jaromil wrote: > because I believe timing of this debate is crucial > I stayed up late yesterday night to put up a mock > up site without tls http://devuan.pro > just to signal we are moving forward, not backwards. indeed much to do before > announcing > first and foremost the TLS cert. > > the wording and style will be improved and all > advices are welcome, even off-list. > > details will be debated in devuan-dev > > ciao > > "Here you will find a list of companies who are offering enterprise level support for Devuan" How do I apply for the list? Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:41:53AM +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote > "freedom of init choice"? > > I'nm not suggesting that we should include systemd in what Devuan provides > (!), but I just think the phrase "freedom of choice" is a more positive and > friendly message for people to see and think "yes, I like that project", > rather than simply saying "no systemd". I say the whole issue could have been avoided if Debian's tasksel had a single line: [x] systemd on its d-i menu. Because Devuan is all about fixing regressions caused by "systemd integration" that breaks things that used to work before. And you guys do that by throwing away systemd support (just like the other side does by throwing away sysvinit/openrc/runit support). That's an easier way than supporting both, but doing it the hard way would be still drastically less work than having a separate distribution. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Did ya know that typing "test -j8" instead of "ctest -j8" ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ will make your testsuite pass much faster, and fix bugs? ⠈⠳⣄ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
On Friday 12 April 2019 at 00:53:40, Steve Litt wrote: > I suggest we pass the following resolution: > > === > At Devuan we prioritize benefits to individual users over benefits to > corporations. Within the overarching umbrella of delivering > sans-systemd GNU/Linux systems, we seek to make life fun for > developers, caretakers, and all other contributors. > === Do we want to emphasise purely "sans-systemd", or do we want to promote "freedom of init choice"? I'nm not suggesting that we should include systemd in what Devuan provides (!), but I just think the phrase "freedom of choice" is a more positive and friendly message for people to see and think "yes, I like that project", rather than simply saying "no systemd". Functionally they come down to the same thing, but I think a positive phrase is better than a negative one. Antony. -- Atheism is a non-prophet-making organisation. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
Quoting Jaromil (jaro...@dyne.org): > because I believe timing of this debate is crucial > I stayed up late yesterday night to put up a mock > up site without tls http://devuan.pro > just to signal we are moving forward, not backwards. indeed much to do > before announcing first and foremost the TLS cert. Thank you so much, Jaromil, for doing all that work! I'll see if it's possible to give some help (soon). -- Cheers, "I am a member of a civilization (IAAMOAC). Step back Rick Moenfrom anger. Study how awful our ancestors had it, yet r...@linuxmafia.com they struggled to get you here. Repay them by appreciating McQ! (4x80) the civilization you inherited." -- David Brin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Way forward
because I believe timing of this debate is crucial I stayed up late yesterday night to put up a mock up site without tls http://devuan.pro just to signal we are moving forward, not backwards. indeed much to do before announcing first and foremost the TLS cert. the wording and style will be improved and all advices are welcome, even off-list. details will be debated in devuan-dev ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
