Re: [DNG] Insane defaults on Raspberry Pi images - How to fix corruption/dataloss
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 07:27:03PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:31:27 +0100 > > Regarding eliminating the journal, you bring up a good point. But so > did some other people arguing the opposite. I suggest an installation > that gives the following choices: > > * Don't use a journal > * Use a journal but keep it on an always-connected spinning rust drive > * Use a journal on the SSD or SD card > > My suggestion is that the installer be clear about the tradeoffs when > SSD or SD card are involved, and also ask you whether you want to > fstrim manually or by cron. From what I understand, putting fstrim in > /etc/fstab is always a bad idea. Also, the installer could remind the > user to delete or archive to spinning rust files not needed, to > preserve free space on the SSD or SD card. > > I'm thinking of using an Rpi as a poor man's laptop, because I've had > too many laptops go bad from spilled drinks and other keyboard > destroying mistakes. So I'd have an attached 2.5 inch USB spinning > rust. So I could bind mount (I love bind mounts) part of my spinning > rust to /var very early in the boot. > > But then I might use another Rpi as an experimental thing, and perhaps > shut off journaling to save the memory card. Or perhaps install a big > honking memory card, log rotate ruthlessly, and fstrim every day. Memory cards aren't what they used to be. I remember adding a memory card to an ancient PC to upgrade it from 128K to 649K -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Insane defaults on Raspberry Pi images - How to fix corruption/dataloss
On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:31:27 +0100 Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: > Hi all, > > The Raspberry Pi is very frequency used with an SD Card which is > highly intolerant of frequent writes as these are limited. My first SD > Card became read only after about six weeks with Devuan running. Using > Raspbian, this issue did not repeat itself. > > Needless to state, although it seems, it is actually needed for some > people, the Raspberry Pi is not a full blown server, although it can > be used by the hobbyist adolescent who wants to experiment and learn. Regarding eliminating the journal, you bring up a good point. But so did some other people arguing the opposite. I suggest an installation that gives the following choices: * Don't use a journal * Use a journal but keep it on an always-connected spinning rust drive * Use a journal on the SSD or SD card My suggestion is that the installer be clear about the tradeoffs when SSD or SD card are involved, and also ask you whether you want to fstrim manually or by cron. From what I understand, putting fstrim in /etc/fstab is always a bad idea. Also, the installer could remind the user to delete or archive to spinning rust files not needed, to preserve free space on the SSD or SD card. I'm thinking of using an Rpi as a poor man's laptop, because I've had too many laptops go bad from spilled drinks and other keyboard destroying mistakes. So I'd have an attached 2.5 inch USB spinning rust. So I could bind mount (I love bind mounts) part of my spinning rust to /var very early in the boot. But then I might use another Rpi as an experimental thing, and perhaps shut off journaling to save the memory card. Or perhaps install a big honking memory card, log rotate ruthlessly, and fstrim every day. Anyway, Edward's got a point, those with the opposite viewpoint have a point, so maybe the right thing is to empower the (perhaps not too knowledgeable) user to do the most advantageous thing on install. SteveT Steve Litt November 2019 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting Second edition http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Insane defaults on Raspberry Pi images - How to fix corruption/dataloss
On 11/13/19 12:26 AM, Edward Bartolo via Dng wrote: Quote from Bruce Ferrel: "There are actually a couple of ways around the SD wear issue, even though people seem to dearly LOVE SSDs with the exact same issue; 1.) Use a USB drive. 2.) Somewhat more esoteric, PXE boot and run from an NFS image." [/Quote] You are right, people love SD Cards, not for their limitations, but for their great convenience. A tiny SD Card can hold gigabytes of files and it fits neatly in the the Raspberry Pi itself. No need of combersome USB external drives dangling around, and more importantly, no need of extra expenses. Remember, money makes a lot of sense to many people, and I dare say, a lot of people do not have much to spare. Quote from Simon Hobson: Ah yes, to think that many of us routinely carry around in our pockets more storage, RAM, and CPU capacity than we could have dreamed of having access to back when I got into IT. Cue obligatory Four Yorkshiremen sketch :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k [/Quote] In the old days people used to die from bacterial infections often after a long painful illness. Today, thanks to great people working in medicine, we have no idea of these terrible experiences. Progress is nice when done properly. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the "early" failure rate for SSD and not so much the convenience of a thing as small as my baby finger nail with insane amounts of storage. I have active and still in use rotational media from the 90's. SSD just can't do that and flash... We don't need to go into it. That's what started this thread. "dangling" usb drive? Yeah, it's a pain. But I do have a Pi here at home with a 4TB USB drive and 10 inch hdmi monitor rigged to run off of a smallish solar panel (100w) so it has a LOT of stuff dangling. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] disable elogind messages?
Hal, On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 04:35:14AM -0600, hal wrote: > Hi, > Any way to disable elogind from filling up the message logs? I think all > these messages are happening because I have cron jobs running frequently. > > I could possibly tell rsyslog to file these in cron.log (if it is cron) but > there is still the problem of excess logging taking up disk space. > > Thank you > > ... > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64956. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64957 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64957. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64958 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64958. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64959 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64959. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64969 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64969. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64970 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64970. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64971 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64971. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64972 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64972. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64973 of user root. > [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64973. That is 6 new root sessions in 2 seconds. What is in your cron job? I can't immediately think of a reason why you would want a logind session for a root cron job at all. Mark ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] disable elogind messages?
Hi, Any way to disable elogind from filling up the message logs? I think all these messages are happening because I have cron jobs running frequently. I could possibly tell rsyslog to file these in cron.log (if it is cron) but there is still the problem of excess logging taking up disk space. Thank you ... [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64956. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64957 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64957. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64958 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64958. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64959 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:15:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64959. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64969 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64969. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64970 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:01 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64970. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64971 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64971. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64972 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64972. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64973 of user root. [Wed Nov 13 04:18:02 2019] elogind[2278]: Removed session 64973. [Wed Nov 13 04:21:01 2019] elogind[2278]: New session 64983 of user root. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Insane defaults on Raspberry Pi images - How to fix corruption/dataloss
Quote from Bruce Ferrel: "There are actually a couple of ways around the SD wear issue, even though people seem to dearly LOVE SSDs with the exact same issue; 1.) Use a USB drive. 2.) Somewhat more esoteric, PXE boot and run from an NFS image." [/Quote] You are right, people love SD Cards, not for their limitations, but for their great convenience. A tiny SD Card can hold gigabytes of files and it fits neatly in the the Raspberry Pi itself. No need of combersome USB external drives dangling around, and more importantly, no need of extra expenses. Remember, money makes a lot of sense to many people, and I dare say, a lot of people do not have much to spare. Quote from Simon Hobson: Ah yes, to think that many of us routinely carry around in our pockets more storage, RAM, and CPU capacity than we could have dreamed of having access to back when I got into IT. Cue obligatory Four Yorkshiremen sketch :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k [/Quote] In the old days people used to die from bacterial infections often after a long painful illness. Today, thanks to great people working in medicine, we have no idea of these terrible experiences. Progress is nice when done properly. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
