Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting Lars Nood??n via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > Google appears to be doing what it can to cut off not only MUAs like ^^ > Thunderbird but also competing mail providers. ^^^ I believe you mean (specifically) cut off from access to GMail send/receive access by GMail users, as an alternative to using GMail's proprietary WebUI. Yes, that's very strongly my understanding, too. Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> > It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers > or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost operation. -- Cheers, "I suppose the process of acceptance will pass through the usual Rick Moen four stages: (i) This is worthless nonsense; (ii) This is an rick@linux interesting, but perverse, point of view; (iii) This is true, mafia.com but quite unimportant; (iv) I always said so." -- JBS Haldane ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/28/20 12:47 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > >> The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and > done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a > for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly > earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate > perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a > dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. > ... The risk is that SMTP/IMAPS become deprecated and/or coimpletely marginalized. Google appears to be doing what it can to cut off not only MUAs like Thunderbird but also competing mail providers. At least that is the impression I get. It's really hard to connect Thunderbird to GMail. You also get a lot of messages on an ongoing basis instructing how to turn off/block IMAPS, worded with scare words about 'security' and without mentioning either protocols or MUAs. If you mess with the accounts interface it is very easy to accidentally turn off Thunderbird / IMAPS access but very difficult to find how to allow it again. etc. Thunderbird probably cuts into their income. I suspect that when the microsoft proxies are forced to end their antitrust actions against Alphabet[1], Google with go ahead and finish capturing the market for e-mail and deprecate SMTP/IMAP. It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. Getting sorted into spam is one method, but increasingly the messages are tagged by Google as being dodgy or unsafe. This isn't meant to be a rant about Google / Alphabet, it is meant to bring attention to the risk of losing e-mail globally and having it replaced by a single company's proprietary alternative. /Lars (writing hypocritically from a gmail account) [1] Both can be true. Proxies are agitating against Google to take heat off of other companies, while at the same time Google /does/ appear to be abusing its monopoly positions in several markets. The relevant one here is e-mail. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted
With my apologies for the multiple messages.. but .. > this repo contains the text of DMCA takedown notices and > counter-notices we've received here at GitHub > ... > we believe that transparency on a specific and ongoing level is > essential to good governance > > -- https://github.com/github/dmca So.. https://github.com/github/dmca/tree/416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 16:36:08 -0700 spiralofhope wrote: > This made me laugh; using the tool to get the tool's source: > > > youtube-dl -o - https://youtu.be/hyqLv2_zBdA | ffmpeg -i - \ > -vf scale=120:-1,eq=contrast=10 -sws_flags neighbor -pix_fmt \ > monob -f rawvideo yt_dl.tar.gz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted
This made me laugh; using the tool to get the tool's source: youtube-dl -o - https://youtu.be/hyqLv2_zBdA | ffmpeg -i - \ -vf scale=120:-1,eq=contrast=10 -sws_flags neighbor -pix_fmt \ monob -f rawvideo yt_dl.tar.gz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting Dimitris T. via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > still recommending TB to clients/people though... In case it's useful, I keep a list of all known MUAs for Linux, here: http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/muas.html Necessary disclaimer: As anyone who's ever kept alive over decades a complex Web page on an evolving subject knows, it absolutely needs updating and maintenance. I just don't currently know what's missing and needing fixing, and won't know until I can next waste a day re-surveying the field, fixing bitrot, etc. I can't remember exactly why I started that page, but sometimes in the past it's been something like hearing, once too often, 'There aren't enough mail clients for Linux', and wanting to rejoin something like 'Really, 123 isn't enough? How many do _you_ use, from day to day?' -- Cheers, Peter G. Neumann: "Mars has been a tough target." Rick Moen Harlan Rosenthal: "That's because the Martians keep r...@linuxmafia.com shooting things down." RISKS Digest, v. 20, #59&60 McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the problem is: revenue model. Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. When all is said and done, Mozilla Foundation is an appendage of Mozilla, Inc., which as a for-profit corporation is bound to a depressing pursuit of quarterly earnings targets as a primary objective. From the corporate perspective, Thunderbird development resources are deadweight, a dispensible community sponsorship that earns nothing. I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it to be graphical, I run it in an xterm. ;-> -- Cheers, Rick Moen"The first rule of Dunning-Kruger club is r...@linuxmafia.com you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger club." McQ! (4x80) -- @drankturpentine (Dennis Detwiller) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
