Re: [DNG] Redhat EEEs CentOS?
Quoting vmlinux (vmli...@charter.net): > Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? Shocking but not surprising. Even more reason > for Devuan to exist. > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-shifts-from-red-hat-unbranded-to-red-hat-beta/ From: Rick Moen via Sb Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:41:46 -0800 To: Birmingham Linux User Group Subject: Re: [SB] Strategic CentOS Quoting Brian C via Sb (s...@mailman.lug.org.uk): > CentOS Stream made no technical sense to me when I first read about > it, and it still doesn't. People use CentOS because they want > stability. Concur. > So the recent strategic move I see as effectively killing the CentOS > project, but keeping the name alive to attempt to minimise adverse > reactions. > > And I assume that someone is gambling on a large number of CentOS > users finding it less expensive to switch to RHEL than to something > else. > > Hopefully information will leak about who's been pushing for the > change and when they started. All the signs I'm seeing make me think this is a high-level decision already fully underway and highly unlikely to ever be reversed. I share your surmise about RH Corporate's aim. Still, the suddenly prospect-less CentOS user community can reasonably be grateful for Red Hat, Inc.'s sponsorship of the project for many years until now. Long ago (early 2000s), independent RHEL-rebuild projects sprang up and thrived when a number of people, starting with John Morris (White Box Enterprise Linux) realised that an unbranded RHEL-equivalent was feasible. Morris's work was followed by Tao Linux, Scientific Linux, cAos Linux, NPACI Rocks Cluster Distribution, BioBrew Linux, X/OS Linux, Pie Box Enterprise Linux, and others. I'm not clear on what new obstacles there might now be, e.g., on account of RH, Inc. wishing to make things difficult for Oracle Linux. In olden days, the main task required was to swap in different contents for the two trademark-encumbered non-software SRPMs, the ones named redhat-logos and anaconda-images, and some other work to make the result self-hosting and compile everything to create a binary distro. At the time, there was a mailing list named rhel-rebuild, where the pioneers of the above-cited projects and others hung out. Its information page still exists: https://www.uibk.ac.at/zid/systeme/linux/linux-alt/rhel-rebuild-l.html I'm betting the actual mailing list (hosted for a while on Sympa) is long gone. (Untested, though.) -- Cheers, "2020 is pulling out more plot devices than Rick Moen a TV series on the brink of being canceled." r...@linuxmafia.com (Seen on Reddit, Oct. 2, 2020.) McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:31:38PM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > Also, for laughs, in Beowulf, the xdm binary consumes 117K on disk, There's a pandemic on, so I'll forgive myself a little OCD. Sorted by RSS: $ ps uq 21538 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason21538 0.0 0.0 2388 1564 pts/3S22:38 0:00 dash $ ps uq 16459 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason16459 0.0 0.0 5640 1764 pts/3S22:32 0:00 ksh % ps uq 17848 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason17848 0.0 0.0 6688 2944 pts/3S22:34 0:00 -csh $ ps uq 20271 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason20271 0.3 0.0 9248 4060 pts/3S22:36 0:00 zsh $ ps uq 6064 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason 6064 0.0 0.0 8184 4532 pts/5Ss+ Dec09 0:00 -bash -- Mason Loring Bliss ma...@blisses.org Ewige Blumenkraft! awake ? sleep : random() & 2 ? dream : sleep; -- Hamlet, Act III, Scene I signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 02:42:30PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, > or do you mean it lacks the display manager to boot directly into X? > The former precludes desktop use; the latter is how I use my computer > every day, because startx and .xinitrc are my friends. Don't forget xdm, which ends up being what I use. I've never been keen on leaving a console sitting there logged in but largely forgotten just for startx, as someone could change to it and take advantage of it being somewhat vulnerable. But there are practical reasons to consider xdm. In terms of weight, compare: $ ps -uq 3944 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 3944 0.0 0.0 16396 2016 ?Ss Dec09 0:00 /usr/bin/xdm $ ps -uq 6181 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mason 6181 0.0 0.0 7916 4140 pts/9Ss+ Dec09 0:00 -bash xdm is taking less than half the resident memory of a bash shell, so if you have to pick one of them to sit in the background doing nothing once it's facilitated, xdm consumes fewer resources. Also, for laughs, in Beowulf, the xdm binary consumes 117K on disk, versus 1.2M for bash. But this of course doesn't matter much, because deleting bash to save space is somewhat unlikely. Following the trail, though, dash consumes 119K on disk. Climbing up to the level of usable user shells, mksh consumes 275K on disk. (I can't seem to get myself to stick with tcsh long enough to call it usable, although I know some folks love it. But for completeness: 415K) -- Mason Loring Blissma...@blisses.org They also surf, who only stand on waves. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On 10.12.20 20:42, Steve Litt wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:39 +0100 > Adrian Zaugg wrote: > > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, I just mean no GUI, because with a GUI I don't know exactly. I know there are some Desktop environments that need it, it seems others don't and the login managers you can combine to each Desktop have again different needs probably. I just know without GUI you can remove it. Regards, Adrian. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:39 +0100 Adrian Zaugg wrote: > On 01.12.20 15:16, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > > This brings us to the other thing worthy of note. Try sometime to > > install Devuan (not Debian, Devuan) without systemd and you'll be > > in for a rude shock. It's installed by default, and it's a massive > > pain to eradicate it. > > What shows > > apt remove --dry-run elogind > > on your system? Do you run a GUI on it? > > Without GUI elogind can be removed easly with apt remove --purge > elogind; libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is > present on many of my systems – unfortunately. Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, or do you mean it lacks the display manager to boot directly into X? The former precludes desktop use; the latter is how I use my computer every day, because startx and .xinitrc are my friends. SteveT Steve Litt Autumn 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Redhat EEEs CentOS?
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? Shocking but not surprising. Even more reason for Devuan to exist. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/centos-shifts-from-red-hat-unbranded-to-red-hat-beta/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
Hi Adrian, On 12/10/20 12:46 PM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: Hi aitor $ apt-rdepends openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done openssh-server Depends: adduser (>= 3.9) Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) Depends: debconf-2.0 Depends: dpkg (>= 1.9.0) Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1) Depends: libc6 (>= 2.26) Depends: libcom-err2 (>= 1.43.9) Depends: libgssapi-krb5-2 (>= 1.17) Depends: libkrb5-3 (>= 1.13~alpha1+dfsg) Depends: libpam-modules (>= 0.72-9) Depends: libpam-runtime (>= 0.76-14) Depends: libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1) Depends: libselinux1 (>= 1.32) Depends: libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.1) Depends: libsystemd0 [...] I see it different on a beowulf system as well as on ascii, you may also see this in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Regards, Adrian. My clarification was related to ssh-agent. This agent is executed when "use-ssh-agent" is present in "/etc/X11/Xsession.options". Before this happens, dbus-update-activation-environment --systemd <...> propagates the SSH variables to dbus-daemon and, *only* if present, also to systemd. But you are right, the only package of openssh depending on libsystemd0 is openssh-server, which depends at the same time on the client. However, there are also other packagesin the base system depending on libsystemd0: - rsyslog - libapt-pkg5.0 and therefore apt-utils and apt! Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
Hi aitor $ apt-rdepends openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done openssh-server Depends: adduser (>= 3.9) Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) Depends: debconf-2.0 Depends: dpkg (>= 1.9.0) Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1) Depends: libc6 (>= 2.26) Depends: libcom-err2 (>= 1.43.9) Depends: libgssapi-krb5-2 (>= 1.17) Depends: libkrb5-3 (>= 1.13~alpha1+dfsg) Depends: libpam-modules (>= 0.72-9) Depends: libpam-runtime (>= 0.76-14) Depends: libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1) Depends: libselinux1 (>= 1.32) Depends: libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.1) Depends: libsystemd0 [...] I see it different on a beowulf system as well as on ascii, you may also see this in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Regards, Adrian. On 10.12.20 11:40, aitor wrote: > Hi again, > > On 12/10/20 11:31 AM, aitor wrote: >> >> Hi Adrian >> >> On 12/10/20 1:40 AM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: >>> libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is >>> present on many of my systems – unfortunately. >> >> This is for the ssh-agent service, used by systemd, which should be >> optional. >> > This is in the client side. > > Aitor. > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
Hi again, On 12/10/20 11:31 AM, aitor wrote: Hi Adrian On 12/10/20 1:40 AM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is present on many of my systems – unfortunately. This is for the ssh-agent service, used by systemd, which should be optional. This is in the client side. Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch
Hi Adrian On 12/10/20 1:40 AM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is present on many of my systems – unfortunately. This is for the ssh-agent service, used by systemd, which should be optional. Cheers, Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
