date:20210509

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread Dr. Nikolaus Klepp

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 11:57:59 +0200
 Arnt Karlsen scripsit:
> On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message 
> <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
> >  tito via Dng scripsit:
> > > Hi to all,
> > > today while reading online my selection of international newspapers
> > > on the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which
> > > made my antennas vibrate, link is:
> > > 
> > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html
> > >   
> > 
> > Thats just bullshit bingo.
> 
> ..so was The Donald and der Adolf.  The good news here is, today's
> Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal 
> with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to 
> aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it.  
> Keep your eyes open.

Sorry, the whole EU is going the totalitarian road nowadays - just to name 
Kurz, Orban, Zensursula, CDU/CSD etc., all elected in a vote and misuse their 
power to create totalitarian systems. That quoting from FAZ is targeting $$$ 
companies, not FOSS. And that's the reason, why this is just "hot air" - the 
said politian is from CDU which freely translates to "not interested in 
citicens".

Nik



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Re: [DNG] Hopman (Was: ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware (...)?

2021-05-09 Thread aitor


Hi again Didier,

On 3/5/21 11:53, Didier Kryn wrote:

     I'm very happy that you cath up on Hopman. I initially made it for
my needs and the community and as a proof of concept. Then I became too
ambitious and I didn't succeed to properly organize internationalization
files and I got discouraged. Yet the tool is working and it is my only
installed tool to mount hotplug USB disks.
I had a copy of your code, but i lost the part dedicated to the 
internationalization.
It doesn't worry me because my approach in dealing with this matter will 
differ a bit from yours.
However, i would like to verify i'm using your most recent code of 
Hopman anyway,
and the gitlab repository, annoucced on the other hand in Emiliano 
Marini's website [*], no longer exists:


https://git.devuan.org/kryn/hopman 



     The first method I considered to determine which device was
hotpluggable was a config file made of a list of regular expressions to
match the device file names, such as "sd[c-f]*", untill I found that
kernel tag. Then I discovered, like you, that it only tagged USB
devices. But I sticked with the kernel tag by lazzyness and beause I
could live with it (I use an USB-SDcard adapter).



With the inclusion of some files taken from the vdev project, the device 
file names
are no longer a problem to worry about. However, you'll be still able to 
list all the hotpluggable devices via:


$ lsblk -o PATH,HOTPLUG

The only requirement is util-linux. At  this point, as you already know, 
it's worth to highlight that *hotpluggable* is not the same as 
*removable*. *

*

*
*


     There is still a bug in a function in subdir watch, which I have
narrowed down to a logic error in the handling of multiple inotify
events in one buffer. This happens typically the first time a loop
device is mounted, because the driver then creates all loop devices at
once and the corresponding inotify events are small enough that more
than one can fit in the buffer; then hopman enters an endless loop.
Maybe I will dedicate time to repair it some day (~:


I'm not using inotify, but there is still an issue related to the use of 
lstat in the following file:


https://gitea.devuan.dev/aitor_czr/hopman/src/branch/master/hopman-1.0/watch/devpath.c 



only when you leave running hopman for an overly long time (which isn't 
the case in practice),
because of the many opened files during the recursive scanning of 
"/sys/devices".


To end with, i've just updated the code in gitea including a screenshot, 
and let's say that it's working pretty fine:


https://gitea.devuan.dev/aitor_czr/hopman/src/branch/master 



Btw, i added a reference in the headers of my files, and also included 
myself in the LICENSE file.
The same with the code taken from vdev, mantaining Jude Nelson's 
copyright there. Is it right?


Cheers:)

Aitor.

[*] Aka linuxito:

https://www.linuxito.com/misc/1231-resumen-de-noticias-de-la-comunidad-devuan-agosto-2019 




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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread Lars Noodén via Dng

On 5/9/21 12:57 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message
> <202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
>>  tito via Dng scripsit:
>>> Hi to all,
>>> today while reading online my selection of international newspapers
>>> on the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which
>>> made my antennas vibrate, link is:
>>>
>>> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html
>>
>> Thats just bullshit bingo.
>
> ..so was The Donald and der Adolf.  The good news here is, today's
> Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal
> with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to
> aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it.
> Keep your eyes open.

My guess would be that the bullshit bingo is an attempt to reframe the
software liability question for the general public in a way that is more
favorable to proprietary software.  I would guess that all the current,
and not so current, discussion has so far centered around the ideas
floated by Dan Geer and Poul-Hennning Kamp.

Dan Geer had this to say at Black Hat 2014:

"Today the relevant legal concept is "product liability"
and the fundamental formula is "If you make money
selling something, then you better do it well, or you
will be held responsible for the trouble it causes."
For better or poorer, the only two products not covered
by product liability today are religion and software,
and software should not escape for much longer.  Poul-
Henning Kamp and I have a strawman proposal for how
software liability regulation could be structured."

- http://geer.tinho.net/geer.blackhat.6viii14.txt

He continued onward to enumerate and clarify the reasoning behind each
of three points towards a possible solution in regards to applying
liability to software:

"0. Consult criminal code to see if damage caused was due
to intent or willfulness."
  ...
"1. If you deliver your software with complete and
buildable source code and a license that allows
disabling any functionality or code the licensee
decides, your liability is limited to a refund."
  ...
"2. In any other case, you are liable for whatever
damage your software causes when it is used normally."

- http://geer.tinho.net/geer.blackhat.6viii14.txt

Notably and intentionally there is a carve out in those points to not
just protect Free and Open Source Software, but to actually promote it
as it is a strong way to improve quality and thus safety.  However, he
accurately notes that the proprietary software houses will howl about
it.  I would guess that the bullshit bingo linked to in the original
message is just that and small attempt at revisionism to restart the
debate for the benefit of proprietary software by ignoring the past
progress on the topic.

/Lars

--

Here is the full quote from that part of his transcript:

"
3. Source code liability -- CHOICE

Nat Howard said that "Security will always be exactly as bad as it
can possibly be while allowing everything to still function,"[NH]
but with each passing day, that "and still function" clause requires
a higher standard.  As Ken Thompson told us in his Turing Award
lecture, there is no technical escape;[KT] in strict mathematical
terms you neither trust a program nor a house unless you created
it 100% yourself, but in reality most of us will trust a house built
by a suitably skilled professional, usually we will trust it more
than one we had built ourselves, and this even if we have never met
the builder, or even if he is long since dead.

The reason for this trust is that shoddy building work has had that
crucial "or else ..." clause for more than 3700 years:

If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct
it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills
its owner, then the builder shall be put to death.
-- Code of Hammurabi, approx 1750 B.C.

Today the relevant legal concept is "product liability" and the
fundamental formula is "If you make money selling something, then
you better do it well, or you will be held responsible for the
trouble it causes."  For better or poorer, the only two products
not covered by product liability today are religion and software,
and software should not escape for much longer.  Poul-Henning Kamp
and I have a strawman proposal for how software liability regulation
could be structured.

...
0. Consult criminal code to see if damage caused was due to intent
   or willfulness.
...

We are only trying to assign liability for unintentionally caused
damage, whether that's sloppy coding, insufficient testing, cost
cutting, incomplete documentation, or just

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread Arnt Karlsen

On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:18:47 +0200, Dr. wrote in message 
<202105090918.47488.off...@klepp.biz>:

> Hi!
> 
> Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
>  tito via Dng scripsit:
> > Hi to all,
> > today while reading online my selection of international newspapers
> > on the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which
> > made my antennas vibrate, link is:
> > 
> > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html
> >   
> 
> Thats just bullshit bingo.

..so was The Donald and der Adolf.  The good news here is, today's
Germans have the experience and therefore much more wisdom to deal 
with such bullshit bingo to keep it from repeating itself, and to 
aim it somewhere useful and to fire up the French etc on it.  
Keep your eyes open.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread Dr. Nikolaus Klepp

Hi!

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 9 May 08:33:05 +0200
 tito via Dng scripsit:
> Hi to all,
> today while reading online my selection of international newspapers on
> the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which made my
> antennas vibrate, link is:
> 
> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html

Thats just bullshit bingo.

Nik


> 
> text in german is:
> 
> Kunden sollen nach dem Willen der Verbraucherschutzministerkonferenz
> (VSMK) künftig besser vor Schäden durch Softwarefehler geschützt
> werden. Der Bund solle entsprechende Maßnahmen prüfen, sagte
> Schleswig-Holsteins Verbraucherschutzminister Claus Christian Claussen
> (CDU) nach dem Ende der Konferenz am Freitag. Zudem solle das
> Produkthaftungsrecht künftig auch digitale Schäden umfassen, darunter
> auch Datenverluste.
> 
> Das Produkthaftungsgesetz basiere auf einer EU-Richtlinie von 1985 und
> sei angesichts des technischen Fortschritts nicht mehr zeitgemäß, so
> Claussen weiter - besonders mit Blick auf die wachsende Bedeutung von
> Software im Vergleich zu Hardware. Clausen sagte: „Wir wollen, dass ein
> verbraucherfreundliches, digitales Produkthaftungsrecht eingeführt
> wird.“ Das müsse vom Bund auf den Weg gebracht werden. Er sei
> zuversichtlich, dass die Verbraucherschutzminister-Konferenz den Bund
> bittet, entsprechende Vorschläge zu machen.
> 
> Auch die Überwachung des Lebensmittelhandels muss nach Claussens
> Überzeugung an die aktuellen Entwicklungen angepasst werden.
> Lebensmittel würden zunehmen über das Internet bestellt und nach Hause
> geliefert. „Die klassischen Überwachungsmethoden greifen da natürlich
> nicht durch.“ Auch hier solle die Bundesregierung tätig werden und
> Rechtsgrundlagen schaffen.
> 
> Rudimental google translation is:
> 
> According to the wishes of the Conference of Consumer Protection
> Ministers (VSMK), customers should be better protected from damage
> caused by software errors in the future. The federal government should
> examine appropriate measures, said Schleswig-Holstein's consumer
> protection minister Claus Christian Claussen (CDU) after the end of the
> conference on Friday. In addition, product liability law should also
> include digital damage in the future, including data loss.
> 
> According to Claussen, the product liability law is based on an EU
> directive from 1985 and is no longer up-to-date in view of technical
> progress - especially with a view to the growing importance of software
> compared to hardware. Clausen said: "We want consumer-friendly, digital
> product liability law to be introduced." That must be initiated by the
> federal government. He is confident that the consumer protection
> ministers' conference will ask the federal government to make
> appropriate proposals.
> 
> According to Claussens, the monitoring of the food trade must also be
> adapted to current developments. Groceries are increasingly being
> ordered online and delivered to your home. “Of course, the classic
> monitoring methods do not work.” Here, too, the federal government
> should act and create a legal basis.
> 
> So the first question that arises is:
> how could open source and free software projects ensure
> protection from damage up to data loss if actually even proprietary
> software comes with no warranty at all?
> 
> For example Microsoft:
> 
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/windows-server/system-insights-eula
> 
> DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE SOFTWARE IS LICENSED “AS IS.” YOU BEAR THE
> RISK OF USING IT. MICROSOFT GIVES NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES, GUARANTEES, OR
> CONDITIONS. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS, MICROSOFT
> EXCLUDES ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS
> FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
> 
> Ciao,
> Tito
>   
> 
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> 



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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread Dimitris via Dng

sorry, but this subject reads like some yellow-press, bringing
end-of-the-world, out of an irrelevant wish? (=speculations, wishes and

rumors) and it doesn't even mention FOSS anywhere...

so, this all reads like BS (imho), not byuing it.

2c,
d.

Στις 9/5/21 9:33 π.μ., ο/η tito via Dng έγραψε:

Hi to all,
today while reading online my selection of international newspapers on
the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which made my
antennas vibrate, link is:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html

text in german is:

Kunden sollen nach dem Willen der Verbraucherschutzministerkonferenz
(VSMK) künftig besser vor Schäden durch Softwarefehler geschützt
werden. Der Bund solle entsprechende Maßnahmen prüfen, sagte
Schleswig-Holsteins Verbraucherschutzminister Claus Christian Claussen
(CDU) nach dem Ende der Konferenz am Freitag. Zudem solle das
Produkthaftungsrecht künftig auch digitale Schäden umfassen, darunter
auch Datenverluste.

Das Produkthaftungsgesetz basiere auf einer EU-Richtlinie von 1985 und
sei angesichts des technischen Fortschritts nicht mehr zeitgemäß, so
Claussen weiter - besonders mit Blick auf die wachsende Bedeutung von
Software im Vergleich zu Hardware. Clausen sagte: „Wir wollen, dass ein
verbraucherfreundliches, digitales Produkthaftungsrecht eingeführt
wird.“ Das müsse vom Bund auf den Weg gebracht werden. Er sei
zuversichtlich, dass die Verbraucherschutzminister-Konferenz den Bund
bittet, entsprechende Vorschläge zu machen.

Auch die Überwachung des Lebensmittelhandels muss nach Claussens
Überzeugung an die aktuellen Entwicklungen angepasst werden.
Lebensmittel würden zunehmen über das Internet bestellt und nach Hause
geliefert. „Die klassischen Überwachungsmethoden greifen da natürlich
nicht durch.“ Auch hier solle die Bundesregierung tätig werden und
Rechtsgrundlagen schaffen.

Rudimental google translation is:

According to the wishes of the Conference of Consumer Protection
Ministers (VSMK), customers should be better protected from damage
caused by software errors in the future. The federal government should
examine appropriate measures, said Schleswig-Holstein's consumer
protection minister Claus Christian Claussen (CDU) after the end of the
conference on Friday. In addition, product liability law should also
include digital damage in the future, including data loss.

According to Claussen, the product liability law is based on an EU
directive from 1985 and is no longer up-to-date in view of technical
progress - especially with a view to the growing importance of software
compared to hardware. Clausen said: "We want consumer-friendly, digital
product liability law to be introduced." That must be initiated by the
federal government. He is confident that the consumer protection
ministers' conference will ask the federal government to make
appropriate proposals.

According to Claussens, the monitoring of the food trade must also be
adapted to current developments. Groceries are increasingly being
ordered online and delivered to your home. “Of course, the classic
monitoring methods do not work.” Here, too, the federal government
should act and create a legal basis.

So the first question that arises is:
how could open source and free software projects ensure
protection from damage up to data loss if actually even proprietary
software comes with no warranty at all?

For example Microsoft:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/windows-server/system-insights-eula

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE SOFTWARE IS LICENSED “AS IS.”

YOU BEAR THE

RISK OF USING IT. MICROSOFT GIVES NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES, GUARANTEES, OR
CONDITIONS. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS, MICROSOFT
EXCLUDES ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.

Ciao,
Tito

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[DNG] End of free open source software?

2021-05-09 Thread tito via Dng

Hi to all,
today while reading online my selection of international newspapers on
the german www. faz.net I've found this little article which made my
antennas vibrate, link is:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/reform-der-produkthaftung-verbraucher-sollen-vor-schaeden-durch-softwarefehler-geschuetzt-werden-17330921.html

text in german is:

Rudimental google translation is:

For example Microsoft:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/windows-server/system-insights-eula

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE SOFTWARE IS LICENSED “AS IS.” YOU BEAR THE
RISK OF USING IT. MICROSOFT GIVES NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES, GUARANTEES, OR
CONDITIONS. TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAWS, MICROSOFT
EXCLUDES ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.

Ciao,
Tito

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Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

Re: [DNG] Hopman (Was: ..are we|Devuan safe from this systemd backdoor malware (...)?

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

Re: [DNG] End of free open source software?

[DNG] End of free open source software?

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